Defect Reports
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Brisbane
Age: 77
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Birds and lightning strike damage inspections are now being performed and assessed by pilots at unmanned stations. On what basis are you making these highly technical and safety based decisions?
CaptCloudbuster,
(Quote)
As a QANTAS Pilot I don't, full stop.
I have been personally stuck in unmanned ports on many occasions waiting for hours or occasionally overnight due to birdstrike, fuel leaks, fume events and even careless baggage handlers who scratch cages along cargo hold doors. One entire PER based 737 crew stayed overnight in the Aircraft at YNWN due no accommodation last year.
When a defect occurs though that is not minor we have a procedure whereby the Capt consults with Maintenance Watch who can authorise him to use an MEL or issue an ATP that does not require maintenance action.
I am very satisfied with the safety of this procedure. As the Fed Sec has stated himself this procedure has been in place quite satisfactorily for years.
(Endquote)
For the sake of all that fly Qantas, including many members of my Family, I hope ALL Qantas Pilots agree with you.
I was personally involved many years ago now, actually decades ago, with an incident with a B737-300 that almost ended as a disaster by Pilots not doing as you do.
We had a B737-300 operate daily BNE-ROK-MKY-ROK-BNE with no Engineers except for BNE.
The aircraft had multiple bird strikes on landing in MKY, the Pilots checked the aircraft over then phoned us in BNE, I wanted to send someone up to MKY but they were adamant that the only damage was to the fan blades on #1 engine and they were happy to return as normal to BNE via ROK.
At TOD into ROK they noticed a full scale deflection on a vibration indicator, shut down #1 engine, declared an emergency and landed on only #2 engine, it was then logged at ROK.
I went up to ROK with an AME and all the spare fan blades we had, after reading the logs we changed the worst of the fan blades on #1 engine, then I had a good look around and found that the fan blades on #2 engine were shingled.
Before deshingling them I decided to carry out a ground run out of curiousity, I did not even get it running, the Traffic Officer on the headset for me, used words I will not repeat here, to tell me how much the aircraft was shaking.
We subsequently confirmed it was actually #2 engine that the vibration reading went off the clock on at TOD, NOT #1 at all, so the Pilots actaully shut down the better engine.
I flew back to BNE the next morning with the same Pilots, who both admitted they did not even know what shingled blades were.
CaptCloudbuster,
(Quote)
As a QANTAS Pilot I don't, full stop.
I have been personally stuck in unmanned ports on many occasions waiting for hours or occasionally overnight due to birdstrike, fuel leaks, fume events and even careless baggage handlers who scratch cages along cargo hold doors. One entire PER based 737 crew stayed overnight in the Aircraft at YNWN due no accommodation last year.
When a defect occurs though that is not minor we have a procedure whereby the Capt consults with Maintenance Watch who can authorise him to use an MEL or issue an ATP that does not require maintenance action.
I am very satisfied with the safety of this procedure. As the Fed Sec has stated himself this procedure has been in place quite satisfactorily for years.
(Endquote)
For the sake of all that fly Qantas, including many members of my Family, I hope ALL Qantas Pilots agree with you.
I was personally involved many years ago now, actually decades ago, with an incident with a B737-300 that almost ended as a disaster by Pilots not doing as you do.
We had a B737-300 operate daily BNE-ROK-MKY-ROK-BNE with no Engineers except for BNE.
The aircraft had multiple bird strikes on landing in MKY, the Pilots checked the aircraft over then phoned us in BNE, I wanted to send someone up to MKY but they were adamant that the only damage was to the fan blades on #1 engine and they were happy to return as normal to BNE via ROK.
At TOD into ROK they noticed a full scale deflection on a vibration indicator, shut down #1 engine, declared an emergency and landed on only #2 engine, it was then logged at ROK.
I went up to ROK with an AME and all the spare fan blades we had, after reading the logs we changed the worst of the fan blades on #1 engine, then I had a good look around and found that the fan blades on #2 engine were shingled.
Before deshingling them I decided to carry out a ground run out of curiousity, I did not even get it running, the Traffic Officer on the headset for me, used words I will not repeat here, to tell me how much the aircraft was shaking.
We subsequently confirmed it was actually #2 engine that the vibration reading went off the clock on at TOD, NOT #1 at all, so the Pilots actaully shut down the better engine.
I flew back to BNE the next morning with the same Pilots, who both admitted they did not even know what shingled blades were.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: OZ
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Oil Qty Check
Ozsync
On a 737 there is no need to come to the flt deck to check the oil and hyd level.
Its just as easy to do it from the sightglass on the engine oil tank and on the hyd reservoir.
It was a blue team habit not to come to the cockpit, you will find that most red team engineers would still check and service oils every transit, and come to the cockpit.
Sadly with MOD that will no longer be the case.
GLTA !
On a 737 there is no need to come to the flt deck to check the oil and hyd level.
Its just as easy to do it from the sightglass on the engine oil tank and on the hyd reservoir.
It was a blue team habit not to come to the cockpit, you will find that most red team engineers would still check and service oils every transit, and come to the cockpit.
Sadly with MOD that will no longer be the case.
GLTA !
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On a 737 there is no need to come to the flt deck to check the oil and hyd level.
Its just as easy to do it from the sightglass on the engine oil tank and on the hyd reservoir.
Its just as easy to do it from the sightglass on the engine oil tank and on the hyd reservoir.
the flight deck indications are for the Flight Deck Crew to give them an idea of the levels.
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Oil and hyd checks
airsupport
On a 737 it is easy to check hyd qty in the wheel well, on others 747,777,767 and others it is not so easy or practical as the reservoirs are in less accesable locations, and it is normal practice to use the cockpit or remote indication.
It is good practice to physically check the engine oil at the oil tank, and do a sniff check for fuel in the oil. But unfortunately in this day and age of MOD and cost cutting the engine oil is often checked by guage on transits, and only physically at night or layover.
Old heads like myself still tend to do physical checks, but we are considered dinosaurs now, and the bean counters prefer to take shortcuts.
It only costs less than $1 per pax to have an engineer do the preflight check, but the bean counters know better than us who have been doing it for 30 or 40 years. Apparently?
GLTA !
On a 737 it is easy to check hyd qty in the wheel well, on others 747,777,767 and others it is not so easy or practical as the reservoirs are in less accesable locations, and it is normal practice to use the cockpit or remote indication.
It is good practice to physically check the engine oil at the oil tank, and do a sniff check for fuel in the oil. But unfortunately in this day and age of MOD and cost cutting the engine oil is often checked by guage on transits, and only physically at night or layover.
Old heads like myself still tend to do physical checks, but we are considered dinosaurs now, and the bean counters prefer to take shortcuts.
It only costs less than $1 per pax to have an engineer do the preflight check, but the bean counters know better than us who have been doing it for 30 or 40 years. Apparently?
GLTA !
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Yes I realise that, just it was B737s that were being spoken of.
I too am a dinosaur then, more than 40 years in the Industry, there are way too many shortcuts and chances being taken today for my liking.
I too am a dinosaur then, more than 40 years in the Industry, there are way too many shortcuts and chances being taken today for my liking.
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Affordable safety
airsupport
I first heard the term affordable safety some 10 or 15 years ago at QF, thats how long it has been going on, and probably more?
I recently heard it called something else, at an MRO where i now work they call it "S eleven "ie $ sign with 2bars, ie dollars before safety !
The bean counters will keep cutting until there is a major incident/accident, and then they will blame everybody but themselves for it ! Sad but true !
GLTA !
I first heard the term affordable safety some 10 or 15 years ago at QF, thats how long it has been going on, and probably more?
I recently heard it called something else, at an MRO where i now work they call it "S eleven "ie $ sign with 2bars, ie dollars before safety !
The bean counters will keep cutting until there is a major incident/accident, and then they will blame everybody but themselves for it ! Sad but true !
GLTA !
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Location: Brisbane
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airsupport
I first heard the term affordable safety some 10 or 15 years ago at QF, thats how long it has been going on, and probably more?
I recently heard it called something else, at an MRO where i now work they call it "S eleven "ie $ sign with 2bars, ie dollars before safety !
The bean counters will keep cutting until there is a major incident/accident, and then they will blame everybody but themselves for it ! Sad but true !
GLTA !
I first heard the term affordable safety some 10 or 15 years ago at QF, thats how long it has been going on, and probably more?
I recently heard it called something else, at an MRO where i now work they call it "S eleven "ie $ sign with 2bars, ie dollars before safety !
The bean counters will keep cutting until there is a major incident/accident, and then they will blame everybody but themselves for it ! Sad but true !
GLTA !
What price can you put on your Passengers safety, and Crew of course.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Old school LAME
Ozsync
Most LAMESs of my vintage 30-40yrs experience have it ingrained in them to do the basics correctly, but there are exceptions, especially since 1994.
It was the Australian Airlines guys who didnt want to go upstairs, but then on a 35 minutes turnaround with one man, you can waste a lot of time going up to the flight deck.
Personally myself i still always go to the flight deck to check the logs and perhaps chat to the crew.
But these days if i encountered crew with an attitude like you, i dont bother interacting with them. Life is a 2 way street, you get what you dish out !
Cheers !
Most LAMESs of my vintage 30-40yrs experience have it ingrained in them to do the basics correctly, but there are exceptions, especially since 1994.
It was the Australian Airlines guys who didnt want to go upstairs, but then on a 35 minutes turnaround with one man, you can waste a lot of time going up to the flight deck.
Personally myself i still always go to the flight deck to check the logs and perhaps chat to the crew.
But these days if i encountered crew with an attitude like you, i dont bother interacting with them. Life is a 2 way street, you get what you dish out !
Cheers !
