Angry passengers take Jetstar crew hostage
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i dont give a flying rats arse what the customers got or didn't get as far as customer service goes, or what nationality they were. want service recovery in case of disrupts? buy a ticket on an airline that delivers that.
it appears the company failed to ensure the safety of their crew. end of.
i dont give a flying rats arse what the customers got or didn't get as far as customer service goes, or what nationality they were. want service recovery in case of disrupts? buy a ticket on an airline that delivers that.
it appears the company failed to ensure the safety of their crew. end of.
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Waren,
What would QF have done differently? Do QF flights carry their own body guards? Are their pilots bigger and tougher and meaner and more suited to staring down an angry mob of Chinese?
Really keen to know.
What would QF have done differently? Do QF flights carry their own body guards? Are their pilots bigger and tougher and meaner and more suited to staring down an angry mob of Chinese?
Really keen to know.
Props are for boats!
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I can understand the desperation of the passengers. They are not part of the 300 million new middle class but the 800 million sub sub middle class. Not to mention the 150 million still living on a dollar fifty a day.They only barely qualify for credit cards, if the carrier drops them in Shanghai rather PEK. That's a huge commute. Even on their carriers this reaction is very prominent. Low cost is a new idea in mainland China and will be hard to manage. It will be interesting what contingencies will be in place, otherwise the model won't work.
Son flew CX from Hong Kong last year and observed that the CC had vey little control over the Chinese passengers the main thing was that they ignored the fasten seat belt warning and were going to the toilet on takeoff etc.
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mr zapatas
i dont work for qf so cant speak for them. no one goes to work to get assaulted.
because its in china thats ok though, right ?
if youre going to operate a jet to somewhere, it pays to have some sort of ability to deal with it in case it lands somewhere else.
its not like the pic rang ops after landing in shanghai and surprised ops by saying "well, we're not in beijing!"
is it?
i dont work for qf so cant speak for them. no one goes to work to get assaulted.
because its in china thats ok though, right ?
if youre going to operate a jet to somewhere, it pays to have some sort of ability to deal with it in case it lands somewhere else.
its not like the pic rang ops after landing in shanghai and surprised ops by saying "well, we're not in beijing!"
is it?
Zapatas Blood,
In case you have forgotten, PVG is a Qantas MAIN airport. It has regular services there. Qantas has a contract with a ground services company to provide support for passengers.
I have no idea exactly what has transpired here, but passengers bailing up crew and physically restraining them suggests that something has gone very wrong here. The big question is: did Jetstar get on the blower to its "parent" and say "we need to use that ground support company." I hope so. Are standing procedures in place for such a contingency at PVG? Is there a "price" JQ has to pay QF for this? Were those staff present or not? Even if you don't have a standing arrangement at a non-MAIN airport, the company can (and does) get on the blower to the airport in question and "buys" such support, eg the Istanbuls, etc.
The ground staff should take over responsibility for pax once the aircraft is on the ground. The aircrew should NOT be responsible - they need to go get minimum rest and be ready to take the aircraft onto the destination as soon as legally possible.
Having diverted to a few non-MAIN airports (international ones) during my QF time, I know that QF is right on the ball usually with this. Yes, I think the full service QF does handle it pretty well; that "legacy" experience shows through at such times.
This incident smells of two things: (1) poor organisation on the ground by JQ, but ALSO (2) obnoxious customers. The latter will not handle the former well. The passengers will tolerate the aircrew gathering up their bags to head to a hotel provided those pax are being looked after by someone, by ground staff, and that they know the plan. In the absence of this it is not surprising that obnoxious pax will fly off the handle.
What is most unexcusable is if the police, etc are that bad that they do zip all. God help us in the Chinese 21st century....
In case you have forgotten, PVG is a Qantas MAIN airport. It has regular services there. Qantas has a contract with a ground services company to provide support for passengers.
I have no idea exactly what has transpired here, but passengers bailing up crew and physically restraining them suggests that something has gone very wrong here. The big question is: did Jetstar get on the blower to its "parent" and say "we need to use that ground support company." I hope so. Are standing procedures in place for such a contingency at PVG? Is there a "price" JQ has to pay QF for this? Were those staff present or not? Even if you don't have a standing arrangement at a non-MAIN airport, the company can (and does) get on the blower to the airport in question and "buys" such support, eg the Istanbuls, etc.
The ground staff should take over responsibility for pax once the aircraft is on the ground. The aircrew should NOT be responsible - they need to go get minimum rest and be ready to take the aircraft onto the destination as soon as legally possible.
Having diverted to a few non-MAIN airports (international ones) during my QF time, I know that QF is right on the ball usually with this. Yes, I think the full service QF does handle it pretty well; that "legacy" experience shows through at such times.
This incident smells of two things: (1) poor organisation on the ground by JQ, but ALSO (2) obnoxious customers. The latter will not handle the former well. The passengers will tolerate the aircrew gathering up their bags to head to a hotel provided those pax are being looked after by someone, by ground staff, and that they know the plan. In the absence of this it is not surprising that obnoxious pax will fly off the handle.
What is most unexcusable is if the police, etc are that bad that they do zip all. God help us in the Chinese 21st century....
Last edited by Ushuaia; 1st Nov 2012 at 02:35.
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swab...W9's comment implied that HE/SHE would have done something differently and I was interested to know what that might of been...
As for your remark about crew being looked after....what would you expect to be achievable in doing do????
As for your remark about crew being looked after....what would you expect to be achievable in doing do????
“…..suggests that something has gone very wrong here.”
Yep, it has. But don’t for a second think that it couldn’t happen to your full service airline. In China, you bet.
“The ground staff should take over responsibility for pax once the aircraft is on the ground.”
They should. And in China mostly they do. But when it turns pear shaped, really pear shaped . . . they wont. The staff were probably there, as directed by the boss who took the call from Qantas. But they won’t assist. They don’t know how to, they are not trained to and last week they were selling iphones, next week maybe insurance. More importantly, they care just enough to ensure they do not get fired at the end of the day but not enough to care about you and your pax.
“The aircrew should NOT be responsible - they need to go get minimum rest….”
Yep, true. Idealistic yet completely unrealistic for what will actually happen in China.
If PEK was closed for fog then the amount of traffic backed up in PVG/SHA etc would create chaos. Any non-PRC carrier will be last, no deice for hours if needed, no aerobridge to deplane pax for half a day. No assistance from police despite giving a mayday call. This happens, I have been involved and it will happen no matter how many “standing procedures” you have in place.
The bottom line is had this been a Qantas jet, the SAME THING COULD EASILY HAVE HAPPENED.
It is a crappy place to be when the wheels fall off the wagon and it is getting worse rapidly.
Yep, it has. But don’t for a second think that it couldn’t happen to your full service airline. In China, you bet.
“The ground staff should take over responsibility for pax once the aircraft is on the ground.”
They should. And in China mostly they do. But when it turns pear shaped, really pear shaped . . . they wont. The staff were probably there, as directed by the boss who took the call from Qantas. But they won’t assist. They don’t know how to, they are not trained to and last week they were selling iphones, next week maybe insurance. More importantly, they care just enough to ensure they do not get fired at the end of the day but not enough to care about you and your pax.
“The aircrew should NOT be responsible - they need to go get minimum rest….”
Yep, true. Idealistic yet completely unrealistic for what will actually happen in China.
If PEK was closed for fog then the amount of traffic backed up in PVG/SHA etc would create chaos. Any non-PRC carrier will be last, no deice for hours if needed, no aerobridge to deplane pax for half a day. No assistance from police despite giving a mayday call. This happens, I have been involved and it will happen no matter how many “standing procedures” you have in place.
The bottom line is had this been a Qantas jet, the SAME THING COULD EASILY HAVE HAPPENED.
It is a crappy place to be when the wheels fall off the wagon and it is getting worse rapidly.
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Whoever has not worked and lived in China for at least a year, is very naive about the situation. I have worked for a chinese airline and we could do nothing about his groundjackings as we used to call it. How can anybody blame Jetstar is beyond me. I am sure, that those who try to blame jetstar have never been in this situation. In China you can beat your wife just in front of a policeman and he does not give a rats. That is the reality of the culture. There is only two reasons when police is swift. It is if you have invalid visa or if you do something against the communist party. Anything else is ignored. You could work for Air China and be in your base and you are not any better off. The chinese airlines always advise you to do exactly what the crew did. Do nothing. Otherwise it can turn very ugly. Good job to the crew! And if you want to fix this problem next time, change e culture and the police and political system. Good luck, it might take longer than few weeks. Also some chinese kungfu lessons is not a bad idea, in case it turns ugly. But blaming airline only shows, that you have never lived in China and try to understand it with your western experience.
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Yes, I've personally seen similar in Qantas. Capt went to brief pax in terminal in overseas port (about a protracted departure delay). I tagged along.
He was mobbed by aggressive pax. No support but we managed to get away. Having said this, there was no physical assault, just being jostled around by an angry mob.
He was mobbed by aggressive pax. No support but we managed to get away. Having said this, there was no physical assault, just being jostled around by an angry mob.
I appreciate all the insights here about flying into China. I do mean that - my own experience is limited to HKG and Macau. I am quite stunned by what you describe - obviously I am naive about it (I'm being sincere about that) and yep, how does an airline (full service or LCC) deal with it? Australia should basically give them the flick but, oh, we cannot do that......
It would seem that carrying alternate fuel for Japan, Taiwan or Korea would be the best answer!
It would seem that carrying alternate fuel for Japan, Taiwan or Korea would be the best answer!
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WRT the assertion the crew weren't looked after by Jetstar, it's Qantas GROUP security that gets involved. The Duty Security Controller isn't just for mainline. Someone got the Aussie consulate... Maybe it was them?
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WRT the assertion the crew weren't looked after by Jetstar, it's Qantas GROUP security that gets involved. The Duty Security Controller isn't just for mainline.
As of 1st July 2012 the "Qantas Group Security & Facilitation" has moved to a decentralised model. (each business unit pays for their own security team)
There is now a "dedicated" security team for each business, being Qantas International, Qantas Domestic & Jetstar.
Each now has their own Head of Security (P.D for JQ) who report to the Group Head of Security.
As far a security incidents such as this, each will manage their own business & the Group Head of Security ensures oversight for regulatory compliance.
MC
Last edited by Mstr Caution; 3rd Nov 2012 at 10:42.
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Titan 404 is the only one here with any clue.
This is ops normal for Chinese citizens.
It happens every day in various forms. They have totally different morals to western society and many thing are
in the media so you will never hear, this just happens to have happened to someone who can report it without retribution.
This is ops normal for Chinese citizens.
It happens every day in various forms. They have totally different morals to western society and many thing are
in the media so you will never hear, this just happens to have happened to someone who can report it without retribution.
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Simply Disgusting.
Yeah the passengers were bad but some of the post here are atrocious.
So.. the company you work for dictates how you should be treated as a Pilot a Person and a Human.
What happened to decent guys flying planes?
Yeah the passengers were bad but some of the post here are atrocious.
So.. the company you work for dictates how you should be treated as a Pilot a Person and a Human.
What happened to decent guys flying planes?
"So.. the company you work for dictates how you should be treated as a Pilot a Person and a Human."
No, the country you are flying into dictates this and your company will have no influence over it at all.
China is a modern form of the wild west. The JQ boys are lucky, it could have been much worse.
Dont let the big motorways and glass buildings fool you.
No, the country you are flying into dictates this and your company will have no influence over it at all.
China is a modern form of the wild west. The JQ boys are lucky, it could have been much worse.
Dont let the big motorways and glass buildings fool you.