Qantas August 23rd announcements
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Exiled in the Ukraine
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AJ is selling the farm
Emirates have said they won't take an equity stake in Qantas but Joyce is so desperate to offload Mainline he is prepared to give us away to anyone for next to nothing. We must be getting closer and closer to the end, time to update the cv I think.
Truth is there will be more and more surplus crew. Alan Joyce has turned us into an international aviation joke, and his international Jetstar dream is not going to save the group, brand loyalty to the group will die with the dead Kangaroo.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now lets wait and see if AJ suddenly resigns and turns up at EK in a few months if this deal goes ahead.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now lets wait and see if AJ suddenly resigns and turns up at EK in a few months if this deal goes ahead.
No, his CV should read 'NEVER TO BE EMPLOYED'.
Why would anyone fly MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL on QF to DXB then transfer to EK, when they can fly MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL on EK to DXB then transfer to EK? 
Last edited by DJ737; 31st Aug 2012 at 09:53.
QF94, I'm running on my IPad I my boat so I can't quote you.
You exemplify Qantas and why so many of us will never fly you again.
You put my $7000 bad experience down to sour grapes. I had to earn that money. Qantas will not get a cent from me ever again, and there are thousands like me, thanks to sky gods like you.
You exemplify Qantas and why so many of us will never fly you again.
You put my $7000 bad experience down to sour grapes. I had to earn that money. Qantas will not get a cent from me ever again, and there are thousands like me, thanks to sky gods like you.
It is funny how the world turns. In the 90s EK and QF code shared, but this ended when QF put pressure EK getting landing rights into Oz. At that time EK had 33 aeroplanes and the QF fleet was nearly 5 times that size. Today EK has 190ish widebodies, and the total QF fleet is 138, of which 64 are 737. Good effort to the QF managers to achieve this.
Launching a flock of QF 787s from the major OZ ports to arrive into DXB and then shuffle the pax to continue onto multiple destinations in Europe would kick some life into the Roo. But this would need some interest in growing the business rather than controlling costs until all costs are gone.
The Don
Launching a flock of QF 787s from the major OZ ports to arrive into DXB and then shuffle the pax to continue onto multiple destinations in Europe would kick some life into the Roo. But this would need some interest in growing the business rather than controlling costs until all costs are gone.
The Don
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Exiled in the Ukraine
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why would anyone fly MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL on QF to DXB then transfer to EK, when they can fly MEL/SYD/BNE/PER/ADL on EK to DXB then transfer to EK?
The only positive thing I can possibly see coming out of this is if EK demand QF link up flights from the US to Australia to their network. That could lead to the possibility of QF going back to SFO, maybe even operating to Seattle and link through South America somewhere other than Santiago to provide a global coverage.
Tell him he's dreamin!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish wrote:
Since you can't quote me Sunfish, let me get that for you Sir.
QF94 wrote:
QF94 also wrote:
and:
to which Sunfish responded:
You had a bad experience back in '02, and it is fair enough that you chose to fly someone else. I wouldn't be happy spending $7,000 and not being happy with my purchase. It's not sour grapes, but a choice made based on your experience at the time.
But like many on this forum, you are quick to put the boot into QANTAS whenever you get the chance and anyone who has a shred of differing opinion to yours, you want to shoot them down as well. You're most probably on your boat flipping through your ipad now checking world business news and watching with glee the eventual demise of QANTAS, or a fair part of it.
By all means, go for it. I and many of us within QANTAS are much bigger than that and can handle whatever you choose to dish out. Unlike yourself and thousands like you, there are also thousands who choose to fly QANTAS.
I'm with Lodown since my last flight with Qantas - about 2002 to LAX and beyond Business class $7000 bucks worth - the flight was cancelled at pushback after a spoiler actuator leak was discovered. Unloaded, transit to fcuking Sydney, shoved on board a LAX bound flight and ignored across the Pacific and then ignored back to Australia Three weeks later. I had better service on American economy domestic flights then Qantas business class.
Qantas : tired aircraft, tired product, tired and disillusioned staff.
And no. The A380, Grange and Neill Perry menus don't do it any more.
I don't know anyone who will willingly fly Qantas if they can avoid it. Everyone is after Etihad, Emirates or Singapore direct out of Melbourne.
Qantas : tired aircraft, tired product, tired and disillusioned staff.
And no. The A380, Grange and Neill Perry menus don't do it any more.
I don't know anyone who will willingly fly Qantas if they can avoid it. Everyone is after Etihad, Emirates or Singapore direct out of Melbourne.
QF94 wrote:
Sunfish, Ushuaia and to all those that have had bad experiences with QANTAS and dislike it it for whatever their reasons. This is a personal choice and that's fair enough. I'm not trying to woo you back to QANTAS and am happy for you to fly with the airline of your choice that suits your needs and satisfies your expectations.
Is QANTAS perfect? Far from it. Does QANTAS have the best service? No. What is the best service? Who knows? This is a personal choice, and there are those that think Singapore has the best, those that think Emirates is the best and those that think QANTAS has the best and stay with them. Say what you like, there are people who believe QANTAS has a service that suits their needs. Mock and knock, but it's a reality.
Transition Layer,
I wouldn't bother with the likes of these guys. The dislike/hatred of QANTAS is obviously so ingrained, QANTAS will never be good enough for them. You could liken it to Grumpy Old Men. Once they don't like you, you'll never be good enough.
I wouldn't bother with the likes of these guys. The dislike/hatred of QANTAS is obviously so ingrained, QANTAS will never be good enough for them. You could liken it to Grumpy Old Men. Once they don't like you, you'll never be good enough.
QF94, I'm running on my IPad I my boat so I can't quote you.
You exemplify Qantas and why so many of us will never fly you again.
You put my $7000 bad experience down to sour grapes. I had to earn that money. Qantas will not get a cent from me ever again, and there are thousands like me, thanks to sky gods like you.
You exemplify Qantas and why so many of us will never fly you again.
You put my $7000 bad experience down to sour grapes. I had to earn that money. Qantas will not get a cent from me ever again, and there are thousands like me, thanks to sky gods like you.
But like many on this forum, you are quick to put the boot into QANTAS whenever you get the chance and anyone who has a shred of differing opinion to yours, you want to shoot them down as well. You're most probably on your boat flipping through your ipad now checking world business news and watching with glee the eventual demise of QANTAS, or a fair part of it.
By all means, go for it. I and many of us within QANTAS are much bigger than that and can handle whatever you choose to dish out. Unlike yourself and thousands like you, there are also thousands who choose to fly QANTAS.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Donpizmeoff has just uttered the smartest words in the room above. Pity QF doesn't have the worlds smartest management.
To Qf94 and transition layer, read the guys posts who you are ripping into. He has been a long time vocal critic of management, not the front line worker. We are all angry at the demise of our lifetime of work, but getting angry at shadows does nobody any favours.
The above article is the tip of th iceberg. LHR for QF will soon be endagered, mark my words.
The irishman honestly believes that frequent flyers, JQ and virtual airlines is where the money is. While he leads, that is where the airline is headed full stop.
To Qf94 and transition layer, read the guys posts who you are ripping into. He has been a long time vocal critic of management, not the front line worker. We are all angry at the demise of our lifetime of work, but getting angry at shadows does nobody any favours.
The above article is the tip of th iceberg. LHR for QF will soon be endagered, mark my words.
The irishman honestly believes that frequent flyers, JQ and virtual airlines is where the money is. While he leads, that is where the airline is headed full stop.
Last edited by Bazzamundi; 31st Aug 2012 at 11:40.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bazzamundi,
I haven't been ripping into anybody, just giving stiff opposition to the boot being laid into us.
Anyway. if the EK announcement is true, FRA then LHR will go. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, I believe the damage is beyond repair, and it will be a controlled crash.
I haven't been ripping into anybody, just giving stiff opposition to the boot being laid into us.
Anyway. if the EK announcement is true, FRA then LHR will go. No doubt about it. Unfortunately, I believe the damage is beyond repair, and it will be a controlled crash.
Ahh, the old 'sky gods' chestnut. Instant credibility fail.
Bazzamundi,
Likewise, not ripping into Sunfish. I have always been very impressed with a lot of his views, beliefs and intelligent critique of QF management. I just disagree with some of his logic in this case. By all means, criticise management (as we all do-they are hopeless after all), but basing an impression of the present-day front line product on something he experienced 10 years ago is just plain silly.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Back again.
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
QF94: you got two (now three) examples in support of Ushuaia's argument. I don't know about the other destinations because I haven't flown other routes in a long time, but I regularly fly across the Pacific so can only comment on that leg. Qantas lost...no, worse; actively discouraged my business over a period of time and flights and I see no reason to give it back. Sunfish seems to have had less patience, forgiveness and more sense than me. Completely happy with Borghetti's company now. Every company faces similar issues, but they are usually identified and employee behaviours are adjusted in the short term, not gone unidentified or ignored as QF has done.
The QF board, the CEO (besides considering headline grabbing expansion plans), most of the management and it seems many of the staff took their eyes off what mattered to the customer and investor and focussed on a pissing match with the unions and employees in one corner and management in the other. It's been going on for 20 years (?) now and together they've torn through much of the resources and almost all remaining customer/investor patience, loyalty and goodwill: the essentials to long term value and continuing viability. I can only surmise how the books are shaping up for this financial year ending in June 2013 because the speed with which routes have been dished up to EK and aircraft orders dumped leads me to think all the red pens in Sydney aren't going to be enough come June.
My guess is that the EK deal (giveaway???) is a desperate grab by Joyce and the board to salvage some level of respectability to the company, their positions and reputations akin to reaching for the liferaft. Look for a few "Heave-ho!"s from the ivory tower once the dust settles.
The QF board, the CEO (besides considering headline grabbing expansion plans), most of the management and it seems many of the staff took their eyes off what mattered to the customer and investor and focussed on a pissing match with the unions and employees in one corner and management in the other. It's been going on for 20 years (?) now and together they've torn through much of the resources and almost all remaining customer/investor patience, loyalty and goodwill: the essentials to long term value and continuing viability. I can only surmise how the books are shaping up for this financial year ending in June 2013 because the speed with which routes have been dished up to EK and aircraft orders dumped leads me to think all the red pens in Sydney aren't going to be enough come June.
My guess is that the EK deal (giveaway???) is a desperate grab by Joyce and the board to salvage some level of respectability to the company, their positions and reputations akin to reaching for the liferaft. Look for a few "Heave-ho!"s from the ivory tower once the dust settles.
Last edited by Lodown; 31st Aug 2012 at 23:03.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish:
Thanks for the compliment, but you are very mistaken. I'm no sky god, but an earth god. I'm a humble engineer who puts the sky gods in the sky. I don't usually climb above 60' ASL in Sydney and that's to sign the RTS.
Lodown
I have NEVER disputed or strayed from the line that QANTAS International is shrinking and who is behind it. The initial figures I put up were to illustrate how AJ twisted them to justify QANTAS International was bleeding the "Group" and that the airline had to be split into International/Domestic businesses, each with their own CEO. This EK deal has obviously been simmering for some months, and voila, after the 23 August announcement, EK pops up as the international carrier for QANTAS west of Australia.
The internal issues within QANTAS are bigger than what's reported in the papers and tv. It's not just a union dispute. There are no ongoing "union disputes", but a constant grinding between management and staff. Staff are given more to do with less, and aging "tools of the trade" and that is across the whole spectrum of QANTAS. You can't make apple pie out of crap, but you try and deliver the best apple tasting crap you can.
It seems people have come on this topic mid-way through, saw some QANTAS bashing and decided to join in. Lodown, Sunfish and all the others who choose not to fly QANTAS, GREAT! Get over it and move on, because it is now a case of SOUR GRAPES, and your whinging and whining about something that happened YEARS AGO is as tiring as the news about QANTAS daily in the papers.
Qantas will not get a cent from me ever again, and there are thousands like me, thanks to sky gods like you.
Lodown
QF94: you got two (now three) examples in support of Ushuaia's argument. I don't know about the other destinations because I haven't flown other routes in a long time, but I regularly fly across the Pacific so can only comment on that leg. Qantas lost...no, worse; actively discouraged my business over a period of time and flights and I see no reason to give it back. Sunfish seems to have had less patience, forgiveness and more sense than me. Completely happy with Borghetti's company now. Every company faces similar issues, but they are usually identified and employee behaviours are adjusted in the short term, not gone unidentified or ignored as QF has done.
The internal issues within QANTAS are bigger than what's reported in the papers and tv. It's not just a union dispute. There are no ongoing "union disputes", but a constant grinding between management and staff. Staff are given more to do with less, and aging "tools of the trade" and that is across the whole spectrum of QANTAS. You can't make apple pie out of crap, but you try and deliver the best apple tasting crap you can.
It seems people have come on this topic mid-way through, saw some QANTAS bashing and decided to join in. Lodown, Sunfish and all the others who choose not to fly QANTAS, GREAT! Get over it and move on, because it is now a case of SOUR GRAPES, and your whinging and whining about something that happened YEARS AGO is as tiring as the news about QANTAS daily in the papers.
Last edited by QF94; 1st Sep 2012 at 00:21.
QF94, you don't get off so easily with the sour grapes jibe.
Qantas has a regular public transport AOC. It is also the subject of an Act of Parliament - the Qantas Sale Act.
That act was passed for good reason - Qantas has been permitted to offer an essential public service, with restrictions aimed at protecting what's loosely termed these days as "The public interest".
It has been judged necessary that for the sake of Australia's sovereignty and defense needs, as well as economic development, that we maintain some form of control over an internationally capable airline.
My concerns ever since I joined this website relate mainly to the shocking job Qantas has done in providing affordable DIRECT International flights to ALL state capitols because such flights have an inordinate influence on the location of overseas investment in this country.
Under your current management Qantas is a sick parody of an airline.
If I had my way, I would put Qantas in an even stricter regulatory straight jacket and require it to fly not only its published schedule, but make sure that the schedule reflected the transport needs of ALL the states so as not to economically disadvantage any of them. I would sweeten that by protecting a designated level of market share for it.
Translation: You don't get to hide behind the " national carrier" banner without providing a national service, and you don't get to suddenly talk about commercial pressures just when it suits you.
It may even be best if we pull your AOC, let you go under and then start again with a new national carrier, managed and populated by rational folk with some idea what national interest means, and without the toxic management culture Qantas contains.
Qantas has a regular public transport AOC. It is also the subject of an Act of Parliament - the Qantas Sale Act.
That act was passed for good reason - Qantas has been permitted to offer an essential public service, with restrictions aimed at protecting what's loosely termed these days as "The public interest".
It has been judged necessary that for the sake of Australia's sovereignty and defense needs, as well as economic development, that we maintain some form of control over an internationally capable airline.
My concerns ever since I joined this website relate mainly to the shocking job Qantas has done in providing affordable DIRECT International flights to ALL state capitols because such flights have an inordinate influence on the location of overseas investment in this country.
Under your current management Qantas is a sick parody of an airline.
If I had my way, I would put Qantas in an even stricter regulatory straight jacket and require it to fly not only its published schedule, but make sure that the schedule reflected the transport needs of ALL the states so as not to economically disadvantage any of them. I would sweeten that by protecting a designated level of market share for it.
Translation: You don't get to hide behind the " national carrier" banner without providing a national service, and you don't get to suddenly talk about commercial pressures just when it suits you.
It may even be best if we pull your AOC, let you go under and then start again with a new national carrier, managed and populated by rational folk with some idea what national interest means, and without the toxic management culture Qantas contains.
Last edited by Sunfish; 1st Sep 2012 at 02:09.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sunny QLD
Posts: 610
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish as a qf driver myself, I can assure you we all understand why you and others like you have deserted us. Through countless emails, flight crew reports and conversations with "managers" I and I am sure many other qf employees have tried to make our "leaders" aware of what needs fixing in this poor excuse for an airline.
The result? Usually nothing. But we try.
Sure some disgruntled staff have given up and that reflects badly on us all.
But overall we are as disgusted with our management as you are.
But the 'skygods' jibe is just ridiculous. We are professional pilots trying to restore some dignity to Qantas working against a one man wrecking ball.
The fact that previously agreed eba's
have meant some ranks are on a good wicket does not make them sky gods.
The result? Usually nothing. But we try.
Sure some disgruntled staff have given up and that reflects badly on us all.
But overall we are as disgusted with our management as you are.
But the 'skygods' jibe is just ridiculous. We are professional pilots trying to restore some dignity to Qantas working against a one man wrecking ball.
The fact that previously agreed eba's
have meant some ranks are on a good wicket does not make them sky gods.
Last edited by ejectx3; 1st Sep 2012 at 03:23.
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 498
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sunfish:
This the crux of the problem, and that I, ejectx3 and many others have been saying for a looooooooong time. You, on the other hand, make it sound like that's how the employees are. I'll repeat again, you can't make apple pie out of crap. Joyce, Dixon and their regimes have been the wrecking ball of QANTAS. NOT the employees or unions. We can only work with what we have, which isn't much these days.
Then Sunfish, tell that to management and get yourself a seat and run in the next election, and have the above as your platform to be elected. You'll certainly get a lot of support in the regional and outback parts of the country, but unfortunately, where the market share really counts (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth and Darwin), the general population in these ports won't give a toss about the "national carrier" as they're more interested in getting a discount ticket on another carrier with better service. I believe I could name a few people in this discussion that fit that bill.
You certainly have no right to rubbish the employees, who do their best to keep the airline going as best as they can, against management's wishes to bring it down, because we "don't offer a service as good as the competition, and are more expensive for it." We don't choose the sectors we fly, nor do we have a say in the aircraft we need or the interior fitouts or scheduling or the bonuses the management team pay themselves or that they don't pay a dividend for shareholders. Again, No apple pie from crap, just apple tasting crap.
You have made your point about how QANTAS will never see another cent from you, now you want to run the joint or have a say in it. Make your mind up.
If you're empowerd to do it, then do it and put the airline out of its misery, because nothing is going to improve whilst we have these goons running the show and the government sitting idly by worrying about their own survival.
I'm glad you have stated that it is a "toxic management culture QANTAS contains." This is the true reflection of the current situation of QANTAS. NOT the staff.
Under your current management Qantas is a sick parody of an airline.
If I had my way, I would put Qantas in an even stricter regulatory straight jacket and require it to fly not only its published schedule, but make sure that the schedule reflected the transport needs of ALL the states so as not to economically disadvantage any of them. I would sweeten that by protecting a designated level of market share for it.
Translation: You don't get to hide behind the " national carrier" banner without providing a national service, and you don't get to suddenly talk about commercial pressures just when it suits you.
Translation: You don't get to hide behind the " national carrier" banner without providing a national service, and you don't get to suddenly talk about commercial pressures just when it suits you.
You certainly have no right to rubbish the employees, who do their best to keep the airline going as best as they can, against management's wishes to bring it down, because we "don't offer a service as good as the competition, and are more expensive for it." We don't choose the sectors we fly, nor do we have a say in the aircraft we need or the interior fitouts or scheduling or the bonuses the management team pay themselves or that they don't pay a dividend for shareholders. Again, No apple pie from crap, just apple tasting crap.
You have made your point about how QANTAS will never see another cent from you, now you want to run the joint or have a say in it. Make your mind up.
It may even be best if we pull your AOC, let you go under and then start again with a new national carrier, managed and populated by rational folk with some idea what national interest means, and without the toxic management culture Qantas contains.
I'm glad you have stated that it is a "toxic management culture QANTAS contains." This is the true reflection of the current situation of QANTAS. NOT the staff.