Rex Now on the looking for expats
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the qualifications demanded by some operators are ridiculous. RFDS is a prime example
(Particularly since this is about Rex, an airline operating 2-crew regional turboprops and RFDS operate single pilot?)
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Chadzat asks " Now what happens when you have a new type to Australia? "
Answer: You do what has worked perfectly well before.
Here is a rough list of turbine powered aircraft successfully introduced into australian airline service without the "assistance" of FOUR year 457 visa holders.
A300, A310, A320-21, A330, B707, B717, B727, B737-200, B737-300-800, B747-200-300. B747-400, B767, B777, DC9, MD82-83, E170/190, F27, F28, F50, F70-100, ATR42, BAe146, RJ70, L188, Dash8 100-400, Saab340, Metro3, CRJ, B1900, Brasilia, J31, J41, Viscount. etc etc
All introduced by australian pilots without incident or accident.
We don't need long term 457 visa holders to introduce "new" aircraft. The record shows we have been successfully doing this for decades.
Answer: You do what has worked perfectly well before.
Here is a rough list of turbine powered aircraft successfully introduced into australian airline service without the "assistance" of FOUR year 457 visa holders.
A300, A310, A320-21, A330, B707, B717, B727, B737-200, B737-300-800, B747-200-300. B747-400, B767, B777, DC9, MD82-83, E170/190, F27, F28, F50, F70-100, ATR42, BAe146, RJ70, L188, Dash8 100-400, Saab340, Metro3, CRJ, B1900, Brasilia, J31, J41, Viscount. etc etc
All introduced by australian pilots without incident or accident.
We don't need long term 457 visa holders to introduce "new" aircraft. The record shows we have been successfully doing this for decades.
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hometruth spot on, so many more advanced types (then the ATR 72) without the need to use 457 visas.
Virgin was able to introduce the Ejet on time, fully crewed from within for Captains and experienced pilots from the Australian regionals as FO's. The Ejet ramp up was very similar to the ATR but never had a problem crewing it with Australian pilots.
This time last year Virgin offered Skywest 30- 40 Ejet Captains and FO's (most holding or held training or checking) for up to 2 years. This was knocked back by Skywest and their pilots. The ATR FO's didn't want Virgin pilots taking their commands and some of the Captains wanted DEC slots at Virgin.
So here we are 12 months down the track and Skywest is now bringing in DEC's on 457's, so those FO's who were worried their commands going to Virgin pilots for a few years will now be waiting a lot longer as the 457 pilots now take their commands. There is also talk of CASA not allowing the 5th ATR to go into service due to lack of resources at Skywest. Virgin still over crewed with Ejet Captains with most sitting on STBY. Virgin unable to the ATR network at the pase they want to.
Are there any winners with this current situation? No there isn't. If Skywest and their pilot group were smart they would approach Virgin and say, you guys have an over supply of Ejet Captains and we have an under supply of ATR pilots, what can we both do about it ie can we borrow some Captains for a year or so. Jobs stay go to Australian pilots, Skywest gets some experienced Captains and in a few years these Captaind go back to Virgin and the Skywest FO's get their commands.
Virgin was able to introduce the Ejet on time, fully crewed from within for Captains and experienced pilots from the Australian regionals as FO's. The Ejet ramp up was very similar to the ATR but never had a problem crewing it with Australian pilots.
This time last year Virgin offered Skywest 30- 40 Ejet Captains and FO's (most holding or held training or checking) for up to 2 years. This was knocked back by Skywest and their pilots. The ATR FO's didn't want Virgin pilots taking their commands and some of the Captains wanted DEC slots at Virgin.
So here we are 12 months down the track and Skywest is now bringing in DEC's on 457's, so those FO's who were worried their commands going to Virgin pilots for a few years will now be waiting a lot longer as the 457 pilots now take their commands. There is also talk of CASA not allowing the 5th ATR to go into service due to lack of resources at Skywest. Virgin still over crewed with Ejet Captains with most sitting on STBY. Virgin unable to the ATR network at the pase they want to.
Are there any winners with this current situation? No there isn't. If Skywest and their pilot group were smart they would approach Virgin and say, you guys have an over supply of Ejet Captains and we have an under supply of ATR pilots, what can we both do about it ie can we borrow some Captains for a year or so. Jobs stay go to Australian pilots, Skywest gets some experienced Captains and in a few years these Captaind go back to Virgin and the Skywest FO's get their commands.
GAFA- here we go again. That chip on the shoulder certainly isnt fading is it? Without making it personal (because I dare say we are on the same team) I need to clear up some of the 'facts' that you constantly sprout in these matters.
For a start nothing was 'knocked back' by its Pilots. Like Virgin, the Skywest pilot group does not make decisions on behalf of management. It is the other way around. When Virgin 'offered' 30-40 ejet capts and F/O's, there were NO ATR F/O's even employed as the operation hadnt even commenced!! So its pretty hard for them to block a deal when they dont even work for Skywest.
There is no provision in the Skywest Pilots CA for such a 2 year 'swap' if you like. In fact the decision to not bring in Virgin crews was made before even any west coast Skywest Pilots had heard about the 'deal'.
So please by all means contiinue to be peeved that no ejet crews got the chance at an atr, but skywest pilots (or salpa) had NOTHING to do with it!
Also just wait and see how small the number of 457's they manage to bring in - it will be tiny in the scheme of things!
This was knocked back by Skywest and their pilots. The ATR FO's didn't want Virgin pilots taking their commands and some of the Captains wanted DEC slots at Virgin.
There is no provision in the Skywest Pilots CA for such a 2 year 'swap' if you like. In fact the decision to not bring in Virgin crews was made before even any west coast Skywest Pilots had heard about the 'deal'.
So please by all means contiinue to be peeved that no ejet crews got the chance at an atr, but skywest pilots (or salpa) had NOTHING to do with it!
Also just wait and see how small the number of 457's they manage to bring in - it will be tiny in the scheme of things!
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Its just another sign that Rex cannot AND will not pay staff professional wages. So in turn, will look to economically ravaged area's (USA) to plug the holes in the dam-wall.
To the pilots considering this:
When the US dollar resurges or when the AUD drops for whatever reason, the maths will leave you short. Also, nothing is for free, your move out here maybe subsidised by the company, but you will payfor it for more than 5 years. Just like the Sth Africans that came, they are busting there arse to leave but have been locked into terms that are really not very good at all.
Also, consider the big move here, with family and all; may be a land of adventure, but only if you get the time off to go look around this ever increasingly expensive country........ oh and dont forget the fact that you will most likely be based in Sydney, where the wages are the same as those that live in the country bases .....for alot cheaper than you will in $ydney... E.g - rent is easily 300+ p/w for a single person, let alone a family.... look more around the $500+..... and thats the start. Fuel is $1.50 ltr and food aint that cheap here.
So weigh it up and read the contract carefully; They dont hand out very much for free at all here.
In all seriousness, your better off going to another airline that you can progress in.
To the pilots considering this:
When the US dollar resurges or when the AUD drops for whatever reason, the maths will leave you short. Also, nothing is for free, your move out here maybe subsidised by the company, but you will payfor it for more than 5 years. Just like the Sth Africans that came, they are busting there arse to leave but have been locked into terms that are really not very good at all.
Also, consider the big move here, with family and all; may be a land of adventure, but only if you get the time off to go look around this ever increasingly expensive country........ oh and dont forget the fact that you will most likely be based in Sydney, where the wages are the same as those that live in the country bases .....for alot cheaper than you will in $ydney... E.g - rent is easily 300+ p/w for a single person, let alone a family.... look more around the $500+..... and thats the start. Fuel is $1.50 ltr and food aint that cheap here.
So weigh it up and read the contract carefully; They dont hand out very much for free at all here.
In all seriousness, your better off going to another airline that you can progress in.
Chadzat asks " Now what happens when you have a new type to Australia? "
It certainly does, but as Chadzat said, in the big scheme of things the numbers will be insignificant.
Last time REX embarked on this crusade they virtually scoured the Earth. They even went to Eastern Europe! The result: 5 south Africans. Good guys and good operators all, but did they save REX? Nope! The GFC saved REX.
As jibba jabba says, beware airline management bearing gifts. The SA guys were unique in they came over to provide a safer life for their families. To the best of my knowledge, no such entrenched danger exists in th US.
It's just a sideshow.
Last time REX embarked on this crusade they virtually scoured the Earth. They even went to Eastern Europe! The result: 5 south Africans. Good guys and good operators all, but did they save REX? Nope! The GFC saved REX.
As jibba jabba says, beware airline management bearing gifts. The SA guys were unique in they came over to provide a safer life for their families. To the best of my knowledge, no such entrenched danger exists in th US.
It's just a sideshow.
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Humm,
Interesting dilemma, I am currently one of the crew REX have approached for an interview in the States. We have a turboprop operation in SA called Link who operate J41's in an operation much like Rex regarding low entry pay and the philosophy, don't bother to treat them well, they will be in jet jobs as their bonds expire.
While I may be a hypocrite in saying I would not join that particular SA based airline because of the low pay and working conditions, consider the fact that this is a tremendous opportunity to immigrate to a country that offers hope and a future for my kids.
It really is a rock and a hard place situation. Get in the way of you guys getting what terms you derserve or grasping an opportunity while it lasts.
There is no bond attached as I am type rated, the position 'may' be command as I only have P2 time on the Saab ( but plenty P1 on other similar types )....apart for the current concerns regarding your pending action, I am worried about the fact I must pay for my own transport, accommodation, meals, visa etc to the States....
Possibly speaks as to the companies commitment, just fishing or are they seriously short of P1's?
Tough call, any friendly advise considering we are almost cousin's ....
Interesting dilemma, I am currently one of the crew REX have approached for an interview in the States. We have a turboprop operation in SA called Link who operate J41's in an operation much like Rex regarding low entry pay and the philosophy, don't bother to treat them well, they will be in jet jobs as their bonds expire.
While I may be a hypocrite in saying I would not join that particular SA based airline because of the low pay and working conditions, consider the fact that this is a tremendous opportunity to immigrate to a country that offers hope and a future for my kids.
It really is a rock and a hard place situation. Get in the way of you guys getting what terms you derserve or grasping an opportunity while it lasts.
There is no bond attached as I am type rated, the position 'may' be command as I only have P2 time on the Saab ( but plenty P1 on other similar types )....apart for the current concerns regarding your pending action, I am worried about the fact I must pay for my own transport, accommodation, meals, visa etc to the States....
Possibly speaks as to the companies commitment, just fishing or are they seriously short of P1's?
Tough call, any friendly advise considering we are almost cousin's ....
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There was another Rex thread running where one chap said that he had taken three days off from work, flown to Melbourne for an interview only to land there and receive a message on his phone stating that they had cancelled the Interview for the day.... No reason given, and no one returned his calls. And all at his own expense!
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Hi Golf_Sierra.
I gather by your post you are South African, but have been approached by REX in the US? The last batch of SA guys worked out pretty well, but here are the facts regarding their employment.
Of the 5 that joined REX more than 3 years ago, 4 are now Captains. The 5th one (an extremely experienced former heavy jet captain) decided for his own reasons to remain an F/O at his country base. It was more than 2 years however before any of these guys saw command. The simple reason, there was more "Fat" in the pool of upgradeable F/O's. Opportunity to qualify for command has, and remains so by way of seniority.
At the time, REX paid for all the relocation costs, plus a $30K grant to help with resettlement. This money was not repayable unless the pilot left prior to 6 years service. If REX aren't offering you at least the same deal, I'd be asking why not.
The situation for REX is now more dire. Back in 07/08 even though REX were losing on average 10 pilots a month, most REX F/O's had the Quals' for command. REX's solution was to simply promote and recruit. When that became untenable they then spent (ultimately) $12 million on a cadet scheme. REX were warned at the time that this would produce a First Officer force unable to be upgraded. Those chickens have now come home to roost!
So the potential for DEC's now exists. It wouldn't be a walk up start, as the REX Check and Training system has a reputation for being somewhat ruthless, be that deserved or otherwise. Additionally it would require the sanction of the union. That should not be a problem if there are absolutely no upgradeable F/O's left. The dilemma for REX is that to employ DEC's would be to admit that their much exaggerated claims for the Cadetships has not produced one single captain! Despite the smug reassurances of the former Chief Pilot.
As far as the Curent PIA is concerned, the are no bans on the employment of pilots, from whatever source. REX pilots have welcomed all new recruits in the same manner as always. Just be aware however of the sort of people you may be dealing with (REX management) and take their assurances (unless it is in writing) with a healthy grain of salt.
I gather by your post you are South African, but have been approached by REX in the US? The last batch of SA guys worked out pretty well, but here are the facts regarding their employment.
Of the 5 that joined REX more than 3 years ago, 4 are now Captains. The 5th one (an extremely experienced former heavy jet captain) decided for his own reasons to remain an F/O at his country base. It was more than 2 years however before any of these guys saw command. The simple reason, there was more "Fat" in the pool of upgradeable F/O's. Opportunity to qualify for command has, and remains so by way of seniority.
At the time, REX paid for all the relocation costs, plus a $30K grant to help with resettlement. This money was not repayable unless the pilot left prior to 6 years service. If REX aren't offering you at least the same deal, I'd be asking why not.
The situation for REX is now more dire. Back in 07/08 even though REX were losing on average 10 pilots a month, most REX F/O's had the Quals' for command. REX's solution was to simply promote and recruit. When that became untenable they then spent (ultimately) $12 million on a cadet scheme. REX were warned at the time that this would produce a First Officer force unable to be upgraded. Those chickens have now come home to roost!
So the potential for DEC's now exists. It wouldn't be a walk up start, as the REX Check and Training system has a reputation for being somewhat ruthless, be that deserved or otherwise. Additionally it would require the sanction of the union. That should not be a problem if there are absolutely no upgradeable F/O's left. The dilemma for REX is that to employ DEC's would be to admit that their much exaggerated claims for the Cadetships has not produced one single captain! Despite the smug reassurances of the former Chief Pilot.
As far as the Curent PIA is concerned, the are no bans on the employment of pilots, from whatever source. REX pilots have welcomed all new recruits in the same manner as always. Just be aware however of the sort of people you may be dealing with (REX management) and take their assurances (unless it is in writing) with a healthy grain of salt.
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 28th Mar 2012 at 21:30.
Just to confirm the above. I was one of the guys who joined the Coastwatch in Darwin 4 years ago as a newcomer from SA.
Have to say the best, and most welcoming and helpful guys I have worked with for a very long time.
Don't know about REX but Coastwatch was wonderful.
Don't listen to everything on here.
Mosy Oz Pilots I have meet over here are just like all of us !!!!
Good Luck
Have to say the best, and most welcoming and helpful guys I have worked with for a very long time.
Don't know about REX but Coastwatch was wonderful.
Don't listen to everything on here.
Mosy Oz Pilots I have meet over here are just like all of us !!!!
Good Luck
I would like to second that.
Golf_Sierra will have no problems with the REX pilots. It's the promisses from REX mangement that he/she will have to beware of.
Just ask the former REX Cadets.
Golf_Sierra will have no problems with the REX pilots. It's the promisses from REX mangement that he/she will have to beware of.
Just ask the former REX Cadets.
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Thanks guys for the positive feedback. First hurdle is getting to the interview from SA. I have commented to one or two guys that I see it as an investment in my kids future.
That been said, lets see what is practically on offer. I obviously have a copy of last years employment agreement.
I did ask if I was succesful with the interview, would the interview costs be refunded.
The answer was no, as far as I understood the reply....
That been said, lets see what is practically on offer. I obviously have a copy of last years employment agreement.
I did ask if I was succesful with the interview, would the interview costs be refunded.
The answer was no, as far as I understood the reply....
PEL-AIR or REX?
REX are currently deploying airline crew and aircraft to service an increasing amount of mining charter work in Queensland. Once the domain of REX's subsiduary PEL-AIR. This has resulted, and will continue at an increasing rate, to result in disruptions to RPT services further south.
To enable REX to exploit even greater opportunities in QLD, a significant increase in the number of pilots for PEL-AIR may be necessary. Unfortunately (for pilots) PEL-AIR crews are on inferior wages and conditions compared to their REX counterparts. When you consider REX pilots are currently lagging some 15-20% behind their counterparts in this regard, it doesn't take a degree in Human resources to figure out why REX have found it next to impossible to recruit and then retain pilots at PEL-AIR!
Be careful if REX recruitment dangle a position at PEL-AIR in front of you. PEL-AIR, essentially a charter company have traditionally retained only those types happy to work in such a niche environment. If REX are able to employ pilots into PEL-AIR, and attach strings to retain them, then you guys may be just what they're looking for?
To enable REX to exploit even greater opportunities in QLD, a significant increase in the number of pilots for PEL-AIR may be necessary. Unfortunately (for pilots) PEL-AIR crews are on inferior wages and conditions compared to their REX counterparts. When you consider REX pilots are currently lagging some 15-20% behind their counterparts in this regard, it doesn't take a degree in Human resources to figure out why REX have found it next to impossible to recruit and then retain pilots at PEL-AIR!
Be careful if REX recruitment dangle a position at PEL-AIR in front of you. PEL-AIR, essentially a charter company have traditionally retained only those types happy to work in such a niche environment. If REX are able to employ pilots into PEL-AIR, and attach strings to retain them, then you guys may be just what they're looking for?
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With Colgan going bust in the States, it seems they have found more than enough captains from their last interview session. Only problem will be how long they last, most seemed to be treading water and waiting for a better offer at home.
You may have some distracted chaps in the cockpit.....doubt they will unpack their bags.
You may have some distracted chaps in the cockpit.....doubt they will unpack their bags.
I've heard similar things G_S.
It's a big thing for someone to move literally to the other side of the world, especially when the move involves coming to one of the most expensive cities on the planet! Once the move has been made, just how difficult will it be to reverse the decision? REX will be looking for a return on their investment, and that will come at a price.
As for the employment contract, the new pilots will start at the bottom of the seniority list. This means that if redundancies occur, for whatever reasons, it's last on, first off!
Food for thought.
It's a big thing for someone to move literally to the other side of the world, especially when the move involves coming to one of the most expensive cities on the planet! Once the move has been made, just how difficult will it be to reverse the decision? REX will be looking for a return on their investment, and that will come at a price.
As for the employment contract, the new pilots will start at the bottom of the seniority list. This means that if redundancies occur, for whatever reasons, it's last on, first off!
Food for thought.
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Golf Sierra
In your situation you are obviously seeking answers to many questions as anyone would. Just so you can feel assured I worked with krusty for a number of years and anything he says u can bank on it. He will give u honesty & balanced viewpoints & facts.
Have you considered Tiger here in Australia. Some points for you to consider. (1) They have, or have had, a large number of South Africans work at Tiger. All great guys, all have enjoyed the lifestyle and to a man all have been totally accepted here and appreciated.
(2) Tiger is opening up a base in Sydney. As a result they are looking for quite a number of both F/O's & DEC's. At present they have crewed 1.5 aircraft for sydney and am looking to find more as initially it will be a 3 aircraft base with more to come.
(3) Presently the only base is Melbourne with sydney due to start on July 1 with a further new base in Brisbane opening in all likelihood within the next 2 years. (4) over the next number of years there will be expansion which of course will create more opportunities
(5) Yes if accepted you do have to self fund an A320 type rating. But if u are going to get a rating the A320 is arguably the best rating to have WRT opportunities worldwide
(6) not bagging REX (not praising them either) but obviously the pay & conditions are much better
If you are interested feel free to PM me (although I have no idea how that works as I have been a long time lurker here without actually joining)
Cheers
In your situation you are obviously seeking answers to many questions as anyone would. Just so you can feel assured I worked with krusty for a number of years and anything he says u can bank on it. He will give u honesty & balanced viewpoints & facts.
Have you considered Tiger here in Australia. Some points for you to consider. (1) They have, or have had, a large number of South Africans work at Tiger. All great guys, all have enjoyed the lifestyle and to a man all have been totally accepted here and appreciated.
(2) Tiger is opening up a base in Sydney. As a result they are looking for quite a number of both F/O's & DEC's. At present they have crewed 1.5 aircraft for sydney and am looking to find more as initially it will be a 3 aircraft base with more to come.
(3) Presently the only base is Melbourne with sydney due to start on July 1 with a further new base in Brisbane opening in all likelihood within the next 2 years. (4) over the next number of years there will be expansion which of course will create more opportunities
(5) Yes if accepted you do have to self fund an A320 type rating. But if u are going to get a rating the A320 is arguably the best rating to have WRT opportunities worldwide
(6) not bagging REX (not praising them either) but obviously the pay & conditions are much better
If you are interested feel free to PM me (although I have no idea how that works as I have been a long time lurker here without actually joining)
Cheers
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If you are experienced, then consider other prospects as well.
Rex people you work with will be great, its the perils of negotiating a contract before you get here, and the unknown factors that you will find in those contracts after you have signed will be your undoing. Unfortunately history has proven Rex managment to be "snakes in suits" and nothing other than.
I agree with your position to earn an income to support your family, anyone would, its the overall outlook of exchange rate, economy (Australia is about to plateu and head south while this european crisis hangs around), living costs (moderate to high in Oz), away from family and friends factors;
If you do choose to relocate, then explore places where the management are working a bigger ship, as Rex managment think that they are better than the rest which leads to draconian micro-mangement with a win-lose out come.
good luck.
Rex people you work with will be great, its the perils of negotiating a contract before you get here, and the unknown factors that you will find in those contracts after you have signed will be your undoing. Unfortunately history has proven Rex managment to be "snakes in suits" and nothing other than.
I agree with your position to earn an income to support your family, anyone would, its the overall outlook of exchange rate, economy (Australia is about to plateu and head south while this european crisis hangs around), living costs (moderate to high in Oz), away from family and friends factors;
If you do choose to relocate, then explore places where the management are working a bigger ship, as Rex managment think that they are better than the rest which leads to draconian micro-mangement with a win-lose out come.
good luck.
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Additionally it would require the sanction of the union.
)