Planes may leave late in new system - Perth
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Planes may leave late in new system - Perth
From The West, today...
The "planes" are leaving late now (and have been for some years). The only difference is that the new system will (hopefully) make the lateness a little less "adhoc" (until the slot adjustments start at 5.45...
).
Originally Posted by Byline Geoff Thomas
Flights out of Perth's congested airport could be delayed up to 45 minutes from their advertised departure times from tomorrow with the introduction of a schedule co-ordination system to prevent long queues of planes waiting to take-off.
According to air traffic control provider AirServices Australia, the slot system is required because Perth Airport's runways cannot handle demand from fly-in, fly-out flights from Tuesday to Thursday between 5.30am and 8.30am.
The change will mean passengers will spend more time in departure lounges instead of in planes on the tarmac. Airlines will advise the night before of their timetable and AirServices will advise a slot time for push back depending on forecast weather conditions.
Under the system, passengers may find that a 6.30am departure may be delayed up to 45 minutes in a worst case scenario but they should experience no delay once their plane is pushed back from the terminal.
To alleviate congestion at Perth, AirServices started delaying the departure of Perth-bound flights from Sydney and also slowed them up across the country. That system will be extended to Melbourne to Perth flights this year.
Plane movements at Perth Airport have doubled in 10 years and are expected to reach 139,000 this year - years ahead of forecast.
At the current rate, the airport will reach its runway capacity of more than 200,000 flights in and out a year by 2020, but well before that date will be at maximum capacity during the week.
In December the State Government launched a strategy review of WA's aviation sector to ensure policies and infrastructure plans at key airports can meet unprecedented resources-driven growth.
At the launch, Transport Minister Troy Buswell said he wanted to ensure that infrastructure was in place to enable, not impede, growth.
The review will look at key issues such as a third runway at Perth Airport to ease congestion at peak times, strategies to cut airport noise, relocating the airport in the longer term and regional aviation development.
Perth Airport chief executive Brad Geatches said at the launch of the inquiry that it was willing to look at a third runway.
According to air traffic control provider AirServices Australia, the slot system is required because Perth Airport's runways cannot handle demand from fly-in, fly-out flights from Tuesday to Thursday between 5.30am and 8.30am.
The change will mean passengers will spend more time in departure lounges instead of in planes on the tarmac. Airlines will advise the night before of their timetable and AirServices will advise a slot time for push back depending on forecast weather conditions.
Under the system, passengers may find that a 6.30am departure may be delayed up to 45 minutes in a worst case scenario but they should experience no delay once their plane is pushed back from the terminal.
To alleviate congestion at Perth, AirServices started delaying the departure of Perth-bound flights from Sydney and also slowed them up across the country. That system will be extended to Melbourne to Perth flights this year.
Plane movements at Perth Airport have doubled in 10 years and are expected to reach 139,000 this year - years ahead of forecast.
At the current rate, the airport will reach its runway capacity of more than 200,000 flights in and out a year by 2020, but well before that date will be at maximum capacity during the week.
In December the State Government launched a strategy review of WA's aviation sector to ensure policies and infrastructure plans at key airports can meet unprecedented resources-driven growth.
At the launch, Transport Minister Troy Buswell said he wanted to ensure that infrastructure was in place to enable, not impede, growth.
The review will look at key issues such as a third runway at Perth Airport to ease congestion at peak times, strategies to cut airport noise, relocating the airport in the longer term and regional aviation development.
Perth Airport chief executive Brad Geatches said at the launch of the inquiry that it was willing to look at a third runway.
).
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 7th Mar 2012 at 22:11. Reason: Paper name added.
In the last review only last year Perth airport was adamant that there was no requirement for new runway and they could contain growth in the current setup...............maybe not
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This could be interesting !!
Wondering how the new "Perth Controlled Departure Times" will mix with "Sydney Controlled Arrival Times" ?
"So sorry.....Your (timetable scheduled) departure time from Perth has been delayed 45 minutes, but on the bright side, we've got a slot for you in Sydney, 15 minutes earlier to your (timetable schedule) arrival time"
Warp Speed 2 Scotty !
ST
( Nah, that wouldn't happen, AirServices would be better coordinated then that ??)
"So sorry.....Your (timetable scheduled) departure time from Perth has been delayed 45 minutes, but on the bright side, we've got a slot for you in Sydney, 15 minutes earlier to your (timetable schedule) arrival time"
Warp Speed 2 Scotty !
ST
( Nah, that wouldn't happen, AirServices would be better coordinated then that ??)
.......and the longer view??
All well and good for the minister to sit down with the parties concerned and discuss future infrastructure. In the mean time though, the airlines are the ones footing the bill for extended delays at the holding point; despite taxiing on time. God only knows the cost (to the airline) of fuel and airframe hours being burnt up every day just over the horizon; out of site out of mind perhaps. Meanwhile, the only "infrastructure" being built at Perth airport is more carparks and a half million dollar smokers hut. The new taxiways are nice and smooth and new looking, but they missed the opportunity to build high speed taxiways, instead opting for the standard option that provides no tangible increase in movements.
Perth airport is already a laughing stock and getting worse! Nationalise the lot I say, private enterprise has proven itself to be useless.
Perth airport is already a laughing stock and getting worse! Nationalise the lot I say, private enterprise has proven itself to be useless.
Folks,
I would love to know why the "capacity" is quoted as 200,000 per. year??
How about differential pricing to iron out the peaks, and a few strategically place high speed exits to up the traffic rate exiting after landing.
Compared to many European or US airports, runway utilization is generally low in AU, and with limits in a place like Sydney of 80 per hour, with three runways, there is no incentive to get smarter.
For a runway used for arrivals and departures, 35 per hour shouldn't be too much of a stretch, higher is possible, but it requires a level of cooperation and flexibility between pilots and ATC that is a stranger to Australia, and Australian "rules".
Tootle pip!!
I would love to know why the "capacity" is quoted as 200,000 per. year??
How about differential pricing to iron out the peaks, and a few strategically place high speed exits to up the traffic rate exiting after landing.
Compared to many European or US airports, runway utilization is generally low in AU, and with limits in a place like Sydney of 80 per hour, with three runways, there is no incentive to get smarter.
For a runway used for arrivals and departures, 35 per hour shouldn't be too much of a stretch, higher is possible, but it requires a level of cooperation and flexibility between pilots and ATC that is a stranger to Australia, and Australian "rules".
Tootle pip!!
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The amount of work airlines need to do for this new system is quite ridiculous.
I personally don't understand why the current slot time system couldn't be continued?
The spreadsheet, web system and then notification to crew of the actual time provided seems like a lot of work compared to just radioing for a slot time on the ground.
Guess we will all see how well this works.
I personally don't understand why the current slot time system couldn't be continued?
The spreadsheet, web system and then notification to crew of the actual time provided seems like a lot of work compared to just radioing for a slot time on the ground.
Guess we will all see how well this works.
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Nationalise the lot I say, private enterprise has proven itself to be useless.
The average citizen doesn't fly often enough for the government to warrant expenditure on aviation infrastructure.
Our landing fees will be used to pay for roads, schools or whatever the electorate is complaining about.
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Look on the bright side.
Airport coffee shops and souvenir shops will win.
You will have time to buy a newspaper, order a coffee from the galley, scratch your b@lls, program the FMS, brief properly, chat to the cute new FA, get minor maintenance attended to before you launch...
Or am I dreaming?
Airport coffee shops and souvenir shops will win.
You will have time to buy a newspaper, order a coffee from the galley, scratch your b@lls, program the FMS, brief properly, chat to the cute new FA, get minor maintenance attended to before you launch...
Or am I dreaming?
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I would like to see a line up next to the passenger screening where all the pilots line up to get there tickets... then over the loud speaker "Number A36 we are ready for you now to taxi"... the challenge would then be put out for the crews to come up with the most imaginative celebration dance like they seppo's do in their football.... 
Imagine the conversations that would happen in a waiting room full of pilots... probably something along the lines of "...... this big"
Imagine the conversations that would happen in a waiting room full of pilots... probably something along the lines of "...... this big"
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Oh this is going to work well.
Miner A rocks up at 0600 for his 0700 departure to be then told he is leaving at 0745, so then he goes for a wonder.
Boarding call is made at 0715 and no where to be found is miner A..... Going to be plenty of more delays. Brilliant idea......
Miner A rocks up at 0600 for his 0700 departure to be then told he is leaving at 0745, so then he goes for a wonder.
Boarding call is made at 0715 and no where to be found is miner A..... Going to be plenty of more delays. Brilliant idea......
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I completely disagree that PH is in the 10 worst airports in the world, it's definitely the 2nd best airport in the world........... 
Leadsled is right, the so called " capacity " of Perth airport is a bad joke promulgated by public servants and ridiculously restrictive rules. Why was LAHSO stopped ? Why are there no rapid exits ? Why are there never departures off 24, is it because of the joke of a taxiway system ? ( how long did it take to get taxiway V ? ) 20 min holding in CAVOK and when you finally arrive in the circuit it's a friggin ghost town, the list goes on and on.
Leadsled is right, the so called " capacity " of Perth airport is a bad joke promulgated by public servants and ridiculously restrictive rules. Why was LAHSO stopped ? Why are there no rapid exits ? Why are there never departures off 24, is it because of the joke of a taxiway system ? ( how long did it take to get taxiway V ? ) 20 min holding in CAVOK and when you finally arrive in the circuit it's a friggin ghost town, the list goes on and on.
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Spot on HKF, several weeks ago, clearance received for departure off RWY24 due works in progress RWY21. On requesting push approval, change of RWY, 21 now operational. Requested 24 being a lazy type, advised that it was "No longer available due noise abatement procedures ".
Ok if It was 0300,however,this was 1230 local on a saturday arvo!
On a similar vane,why is it that most Countries I've visited over the years, given critical infrastructure requirements, work carries on 24/7.
In good old Oz it's 9 to 5 Mon to Fri apparently.
Laughable Joke,
Lucky Country means lucky nobody is held accountable.
Ok if It was 0300,however,this was 1230 local on a saturday arvo!
On a similar vane,why is it that most Countries I've visited over the years, given critical infrastructure requirements, work carries on 24/7.
In good old Oz it's 9 to 5 Mon to Fri apparently.
Laughable Joke,
Lucky Country means lucky nobody is held accountable.
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Now if I recall correctly in the USA there are fines for airlines who keep self loading cargo on the ground on board over a certain period. Perhaps if these fines applied to airport operators who kept aircraft holding for too long they'd be building multiple runways as fast as they could, after all they and the government are the only ones making money out of aviation these days.
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Code:
From what I hear it's still boarding on schedule. You will just be sitting in the aircraft waiting at the gate instead of on the taxiway
None of this is news to anyone who is a regular user. As regular domestic SLF, the days are rare when you board on time, pushback immediately when fully boarded, and taxi to a short hold before takeoff. Maybe the early Friday morning flight home. Otherwise, you are always sitting.... somewhere....waits of up to 45 minutes are not uncommon. The only downside to a Kindle as reading matter
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The new system is called Metron, it is much better then the current CTMS. I have had a brief overview of it.
Metron Aviation: Concept Engineering, Advanced Research, Air Traffic Flow Management, Collaborative Decision Making
Metron Aviation: Concept Engineering, Advanced Research, Air Traffic Flow Management, Collaborative Decision Making