Interesting Night At YPPH - 'EASTERLIES"....
Yes they have F50's in EGLL, I watched one with a gear collapse close 09R about 10 years ago, had a ringside seat from the hatch of my 400.
All those things you mention above could be implemented in Australia. Most Turboprops are faster inside 10 miles anyway so that shouldn't slow it down and they shouldn't be slower below 10,000' either and in any holding patterns needed. Kick the pistons back to Jandakot, landing fees would be too high for them anyway?
I agree our Aussie ATCO's are some of the best in the industry and do a good job world wide. I've never said they were to blame.
All those things you mention above could be implemented in Australia. Most Turboprops are faster inside 10 miles anyway so that shouldn't slow it down and they shouldn't be slower below 10,000' either and in any holding patterns needed. Kick the pistons back to Jandakot, landing fees would be too high for them anyway?
I agree our Aussie ATCO's are some of the best in the industry and do a good job world wide. I've never said they were to blame.
Well then if you guys in Perth are correct the Routes around Perth still don't work well enough.......
Never thought of myself as a warrior!!
Of the whole world too!!
Good document, if they've done all that then the only things left are those posted above and better Pilot training as to ROT. More rapid exits and tighter vectors etc.
Oh, and build another Runway!!
Interesting read on the Brisbane delays thread too. Maybe that will improve things a little. it all helps.
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...olding-10.html
Never thought of myself as a warrior!!
Of the whole world too!!
Good document, if they've done all that then the only things left are those posted above and better Pilot training as to ROT. More rapid exits and tighter vectors etc.
Oh, and build another Runway!!
Interesting read on the Brisbane delays thread too. Maybe that will improve things a little.
it all helps.http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...olding-10.html
Last edited by nitpicker330; 3rd Feb 2012 at 12:03.
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Perth still don't work well enough.......
The noise lobby is still hugely influential in this debate, there as been a Senate Inquiry in 2010. Check out this http://www.fairskies.com.au/JUDY%20M...%20BILL%202011
Also see Trial of new flight route, Perth | Airservices
Impossible to change or add anything within 10-12 nm PH without alot of grief.
only things left are those posted above and better Pilot training as to ROT
As a rule SOP's ( stabilized criteria ) dictate how we fly the beast but having said that there will be differences between crews on the same type to fit the circumstances of the day ( a lot of variables with regards to experience, motivation etc ) so to mitigate it or indeed fix it you'll have to become very specific in regards to speed control and ENFORCE it strictly like they seem to do well in the UK.
All CX crews brief any speed control requirements for each approach and in my experience we always follow them carefully. I'm sure most others do the same.
( can't vouch for crews from non English speaking areas!! )
All CX crews brief any speed control requirements for each approach and in my experience we always follow them carefully. I'm sure most others do the same.
( can't vouch for crews from non English speaking areas!! )
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Not really talking about real airlines, the variation there is less. But the majority of PH traffic is the FIFO type smaller jets (F100, BA46 etc) and turbo props (DHC8, E120 etc) and the variation of technique/performance is huge. I am sure attitude, motivation and experience as alot to do with it.
Set approach speeds are coming. We tried to introduce them a couple years ago, can't remember exactly why it didn't happen but something to do with VOZ not being happy with them.
Set approach speeds are coming. We tried to introduce them a couple years ago, can't remember exactly why it didn't happen but something to do with VOZ not being happy with them.
Thread Starter
Hey 'NP330'....
Reur - " Kick the pistons back to Jandakot, landing fees would be too high for them anyway?" (Post #148).
Can't think of too many 'pistons' left at YPPH these days.....
CAN remember a few of the 'originals' in GA though.....'Murchison Air Services' run by Bob Oliver being the FIRST to have a base there....I would think?
Mid to late 60's....
Cheers
Reur - " Kick the pistons back to Jandakot, landing fees would be too high for them anyway?" (Post #148).
Can't think of too many 'pistons' left at YPPH these days.....
CAN remember a few of the 'originals' in GA though.....'Murchison Air Services' run by Bob Oliver being the FIRST to have a base there....I would think?
Mid to late 60's....
Cheers
Airport Capacity Enhancement (ACE)
Background
The projected strong growth in aviation traffic, including passenger numbers and aircraft movements, presents challenges for airlines, airports, and air navigation service providers. Constraints at a number of airports, particularly during peak traffic periods, have the potential to adversely affect growth in the aviation industry.
Improving runway efficiency and optimising the use of existing infrastructure, particularly during peak periods, is critical to the efficient operation of the national airspace system and managing the impact of aviation on the environment.
Purpose
Airservices has introduced the Airport Capacity Enhancement (ACE) program to help meet these challenges. The ACE program will be a collaborative activity involving Airservices, major airports & airline operators.
The ACE program aims to make the best use of existing infrastructure to maximise efficiency. This will involve improving the processes and practices of air traffic controllers (ATC), airport operators and airlines.
Overview
Airport efficiency can be constrained by route structures & traffic flows, runways, taxiways and aprons. However, these constraints do not operate in isolation and, while the initial focus of the program will be runway efficiency, other constraints will also be considered.
This program is based around a EUROCONTROL initiative and we expect to be guided by the experience of these airports where significant capacity improvements have been delivered.
Program Initiation
Airservices has established ACE as a national program to provide support, coordination and standardisation in delivering the benefits to airports.
Each participating airport will have an executive steering group which will in turn guide the development and implementation of the program and appoint an ACE Management Team.
ACE Management Teams should ideally include ATC supervisors and experienced operational controllers, senior pilots, flight operations staff and representatives from airport operations. Each also has a role in delivering improvement activities within their specialist operational area.
Following industry consultation, Melbourne and Perth have been selected as the initial Australian airports for ACE introduction. The program will then be progressively implemented at other Australian airport.
Communication
The objectives of the ACE program must be communicated to pilots, air traffic controllers and airport staff, and their engagement actively sought. Joint forums will allow identification of ideas, initiatives and plans which may deliver operational improvements.
The early involvement of airport partners on all levels is the key to improving airside and airspace efficiency.
Measuring performance
The national program team and each airport ACE Management team will determine the measurements necessary to assist capacity improvement. The European program has developed a list of intervals that can be used as the basis for common performance measurement at Australian airports.
These measurements will support the identification of areas where ATC, airlines & airports can deliver efficiency gains within current safety standards.
Safety
Safety remains the aviation industry’s over-riding priority. ACE will introduce measures that improve overall safety by ensuring smooth, planned operations with enhances situational awareness.
This will provide opportunities to safely anticipate events and better manage air traffic controller (ATC) and pilot workload during busy periods.
For further information
Chris Henry, ACE Program Director
Email: [email protected]
Rod Lee, ACE ATC Advisor
Email: [email protected]
Understand that UK NATS is participating as a consultant ($$) and that one of the first airports to be challenged is YPPH.
Background
The projected strong growth in aviation traffic, including passenger numbers and aircraft movements, presents challenges for airlines, airports, and air navigation service providers. Constraints at a number of airports, particularly during peak traffic periods, have the potential to adversely affect growth in the aviation industry.
Improving runway efficiency and optimising the use of existing infrastructure, particularly during peak periods, is critical to the efficient operation of the national airspace system and managing the impact of aviation on the environment.
Purpose
Airservices has introduced the Airport Capacity Enhancement (ACE) program to help meet these challenges. The ACE program will be a collaborative activity involving Airservices, major airports & airline operators.
The ACE program aims to make the best use of existing infrastructure to maximise efficiency. This will involve improving the processes and practices of air traffic controllers (ATC), airport operators and airlines.
Overview
Airport efficiency can be constrained by route structures & traffic flows, runways, taxiways and aprons. However, these constraints do not operate in isolation and, while the initial focus of the program will be runway efficiency, other constraints will also be considered.
This program is based around a EUROCONTROL initiative and we expect to be guided by the experience of these airports where significant capacity improvements have been delivered.
Program Initiation
Airservices has established ACE as a national program to provide support, coordination and standardisation in delivering the benefits to airports.
Each participating airport will have an executive steering group which will in turn guide the development and implementation of the program and appoint an ACE Management Team.
ACE Management Teams should ideally include ATC supervisors and experienced operational controllers, senior pilots, flight operations staff and representatives from airport operations. Each also has a role in delivering improvement activities within their specialist operational area.
Following industry consultation, Melbourne and Perth have been selected as the initial Australian airports for ACE introduction. The program will then be progressively implemented at other Australian airport.
Communication
The objectives of the ACE program must be communicated to pilots, air traffic controllers and airport staff, and their engagement actively sought. Joint forums will allow identification of ideas, initiatives and plans which may deliver operational improvements.
The early involvement of airport partners on all levels is the key to improving airside and airspace efficiency.
Measuring performance
The national program team and each airport ACE Management team will determine the measurements necessary to assist capacity improvement. The European program has developed a list of intervals that can be used as the basis for common performance measurement at Australian airports.
These measurements will support the identification of areas where ATC, airlines & airports can deliver efficiency gains within current safety standards.
Safety
Safety remains the aviation industry’s over-riding priority. ACE will introduce measures that improve overall safety by ensuring smooth, planned operations with enhances situational awareness.
This will provide opportunities to safely anticipate events and better manage air traffic controller (ATC) and pilot workload during busy periods.
For further information
Chris Henry, ACE Program Director
Email: [email protected]
Rod Lee, ACE ATC Advisor
Email: [email protected]
Understand that UK NATS is participating as a consultant ($$) and that one of the first airports to be challenged is YPPH.
Also from the other thread...
Didn't realise that. But I don't complain. I like being "dicked around". Gives me something to think about! 
Assuming a non arrivals manager type program (eg Meastro), the arrivals guy from the North gets a rate he has to give the approach guy, the guy from the South a rate (directions may vary) and then the appproach guy catches them. The arrivals guys make those rates happen however they can. Speed ups for number one then varying degrees of slow down for everyone else. The approach guy then has to put these two (or three or more) streams on the runway. This means that perhaps the number one from the North may not be number one for the runway and hence, has to slow down after going fast..... and vice versa from the South who was number two there but is now number two to the runway beating number one from the other end....
