No deal for Qantas and pilots

[wpax]

Qantas and the pilots' union have failed to reach a new agreement on pay and conditions during conciliation before the workplace umpire Fair Work Australia.

No deal for Qantas and pilots - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

[Keg]

Bugger. I was hoping that something decent could be achieved. Oh well. If this takes another bunch of months I guess we may see a pay rise by mid 2012- been a LONG time between pay rises!

Now it gets really interesting with the lawyers asking for lots of QF internal costings to be table in front of the full bench. Perhaps we may even see some of those 61 questions answered.

The phoney war has just finished.

[ejectx3]

Surprise surprise. What's the bet qantas already knows the outcome of arbitration after a cozy chairmans lounge chat ...

[TIMA9X]

possible the management want another 21 days to get through to Christmas....

[Keg]

Doesn't sound like that at all Tima9X. This now all goes to arbitration but THAT is going to take months to finalise.

In the interim, we have the 'appeal' against the FWA to terminate starting on 1 Dec and so that will run concurrently.

[TIMA9X]

In the interim, we have the 'appeal' against the FWA to terminate starting on 1 Dec and so that will run concurrently.

Wow,

lawyers asking for lots of QF internal costings to be table in front of the full bench.

I see a lot of management dirty washing hanging out to dry for all to see, from what I am hearing the pilots have a very strong case and should win the appeal. Couple this with the grounding decision from AJ, the share price heading south already since late last week as the market was betting that the issue would be resolved and a very possible EGM for LC and AJ to clarify the business plan sets the course for some very interesting times...

[Mstr Caution]

I thought QF & AIPA had until midnight tonight to exhaust all negotiations !

Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, said yesterday he was hopeful of clinching agreements by Monday. ''We'll be working until the 11th hour to try and get an agreement,'' he said.

Did QF choose to call off the 11th hour negotiations 11 hours early?

MC

[Keg]

..... and didn't want to extend another 21 days in order to get the deal done. He's been spinning all week when he's said he was hopeful of an agreement.

[rmcdonal]

Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, said yesterday he was hopeful of clinching agreements by Monday.

I've been hopeful of winning Loto for a while now. I get close on a few numbers but never get the whole lot.

[TIMA9X]

For the record



.

[neville_nobody]

I see a lot of management dirty washing hanging out to dry for all to see, from what I am hearing the pilots have a very strong case and should win the appeal

Yes but will they win the war? Obviously QF believe that the FWA are not going to allow a ruling including an outsourcing clause. No point getting a 10% pay rise from the FWA if they allow the whole show to be sent to Asia.

However the political ramifications of what comes out in the FWA hearing might make things a little uncomfortable for Qantas.

[33 Disengage]

Qantas obviously doesn't place any value on goodwill or engagement of staff, because any that might have been lingering has been blown out of the air for the next 6 months or so, minimum!

[Jack Ranga]

Qantas aren't negotiating in good faith as the last thing they want is an agreement with any of you fellas.

They want it arbitrated as it will favour them. Let's hope that the truth comes out in this process.

[T28D]

You are all naive, Qantas has won, they will out lawyer you all, use forensic accountants and the big 5 accounting houses to bombard the arbitration with their story, it will be up to Unions to refute, you better have deep pockets as this is going to be a long and very bloody fight.

Discovery in legal proceedings is a 2 way street, out come all the secrets and embarrasing Emails.

There are lots of precedents for this, QF are not alone, they are following a well worn path and expect to succeed.

[Ngineer]

I read in the fin a couple of weeks ago that one of the arbitrators from FWA is an ex-Freehills partner.

[Keg]

Then ex Freehills partner has actually been doing the conciliation between Qantas and AIPA. Thus, AIPA is able to apply for him to NOT be a part of the bench considering the arbitration.

[TIMA9X]

Qantas's chief executive, Alan Joyce, said yesterday he was hopeful of clinching agreements by Monday. ''We'll be working until the 11th hour to try and get an agreement,'' he said.

If you look at the last video I posted and this one from this morning you will sense that AJ and Co never wanted to settle today.. his rhetoric doesn't add up.

I read in the fin a couple of weeks ago that one of the arbitrators from FWA is an ex-Freehills partner.

Thanks Keg for pointing this out, it was on my mind as well.
.

[Mr Leslie Chow]

Keg did you know if AIPA is aware of this or not?

With them being up to the neck in management stool (pun intended) that may get through the net.

Of course this has been the play all along, these dicks don't want to lose like they did against the engineers in the last EBA, and there ego wont let them negotiate or 'engage' their staff/workforce.

[Keg]

Yes, they were aware. Their were some strategic decisions made as to whether it was better to have him involved in conciliation but excluded from the full bench or to exclude him from conciliation but have him on the full bench.

Whether it makes any difference I guess we'll know next year.

[clotted]

Keg,
If you had followed the story closely, you would have already learned that FWA (probably the President) had already stated that in each case, the judge doing the mediation would not sit on the FWA Full Bench WRT the same union/Qantas case.
Sorry to blow a hole in your conspiracy/prejudice theories.