Getting the real Qantas story to mainstream media
Thread Starter
Hi JST.
While a lot of PPrune is people slagging off and getting things off their chest, what you also probably need to realise is that the motivation of QF staff discussing the current industrial situation is their jobs - their mortgages - their families. Perhaps if you drew a parallel between your own job (and the prospect of losing your job because someone in Asia will write articles for 20% less so your CEO gets a 70% payrise), you might understand why people are quick to anger and point fingers. Surely a good journalist can cut through the chaff and still pull out the absolute wealth of information on this site.
I also understand that controversy and popular news sells, and that's pretty much a core concept of any media business. I don't think there's anyone on here who doesn't understand that the success of the media rests solely on selling stories - in the same way that when it comes down to it, jobs in aviation are provided by bums on seats.
What we don't understand however, is that while you have admitted there are questions about QF managements behaviour, why is it that ALL of the mainstream media articles are geared pro-management/anti-union?
Why is this? Is it because union bashing is popular among the public? I can probably accept this is partly so - it appears from a lot of reader feedback that union bashing is a great past-time amongst the public.
But if I were a betting man, I would put the majority of my money on the fact that it comes down to laziness. It is a hell of a lot easier to essentially reprint Qantas press releases and print them as fact, than it is to actually do the research involved.
Let's consdier if, as you imply, the publishing of stories comes purely down to controversy and "news-worthiness". The so called "grounded" aircraft this last fortnight, were not grounded as a result of strike action. These aircraft had already previously been slated for retirement some time this year, and new replacement aircraft have already been in Australia and operating for months already. If you wrote an article about this, exposing Qantas' media stunt to discredit the unions and turn public opinion against staff (and entitled it "Qantas Lies and Bullying"), then surely it would sell papers. It would also actually be true, too.
So my proposed article "Qantas Lies and Bullying" above, if it were presented to Channel 7's Sunrise show (sponsored by Qantas), are you trying to tell me it would be run and not heavily edited or completely cut? I just don't believe otherwise, but I'm willing to listen if you can tell me otherwise.
I agree - the media have to sell news and make money, I just don't agree that reprinting QF press releases and PR spin is the only news which will sell papers. It is, however, the only news that will sell papers that doesn't require a scrap of effort or investigative journalism to produce.
It will matter if you get up and MAKE it matter.
While a lot of PPrune is people slagging off and getting things off their chest, what you also probably need to realise is that the motivation of QF staff discussing the current industrial situation is their jobs - their mortgages - their families. Perhaps if you drew a parallel between your own job (and the prospect of losing your job because someone in Asia will write articles for 20% less so your CEO gets a 70% payrise), you might understand why people are quick to anger and point fingers. Surely a good journalist can cut through the chaff and still pull out the absolute wealth of information on this site.
I also understand that controversy and popular news sells, and that's pretty much a core concept of any media business. I don't think there's anyone on here who doesn't understand that the success of the media rests solely on selling stories - in the same way that when it comes down to it, jobs in aviation are provided by bums on seats.
What we don't understand however, is that while you have admitted there are questions about QF managements behaviour, why is it that ALL of the mainstream media articles are geared pro-management/anti-union?
Why is this? Is it because union bashing is popular among the public? I can probably accept this is partly so - it appears from a lot of reader feedback that union bashing is a great past-time amongst the public.
But if I were a betting man, I would put the majority of my money on the fact that it comes down to laziness. It is a hell of a lot easier to essentially reprint Qantas press releases and print them as fact, than it is to actually do the research involved.
Let's consdier if, as you imply, the publishing of stories comes purely down to controversy and "news-worthiness". The so called "grounded" aircraft this last fortnight, were not grounded as a result of strike action. These aircraft had already previously been slated for retirement some time this year, and new replacement aircraft have already been in Australia and operating for months already. If you wrote an article about this, exposing Qantas' media stunt to discredit the unions and turn public opinion against staff (and entitled it "Qantas Lies and Bullying"), then surely it would sell papers. It would also actually be true, too.
On a parting note, most media people are left leaning, we don't have meetings with big brother to decide what to write to 'influence' the masses, lol.
I agree - the media have to sell news and make money, I just don't agree that reprinting QF press releases and PR spin is the only news which will sell papers. It is, however, the only news that will sell papers that doesn't require a scrap of effort or investigative journalism to produce.
but my opinion doesn't matter
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What we don't understand however, is that while you have admitted there are questions about QF managements behaviour, why is it that ALL of the mainstream media articles are geared pro-management/anti-union?
by, JST, The ABC on the other hand...
Let's consider if, as you imply, the publishing of stories comes purely down to controversy and "news-worthiness". The so called "grounded" aircraft this last fortnight, were not grounded as a result of strike action. These aircraft had already previously been slated for retirement some time this year, and new replacement aircraft have already been in Australia and operating for months already. If you wrote an article about this, exposing Qantas' media stunt to discredit the unions and turn public opinion against staff (and entitled it "Qantas Lies and Bullying"), then surely it would sell papers. It would also actually be true, too.
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JST, here is a copy of a previous post in June. The media has been co-opted by a combination of large "communications" resources available to powerful entities wishing to push their messages & overworked/under-resourced journalists.
Spinning the Media: Key findings in a week in the life of the media
Coincidently I was listening to an interview with the head of thenational "Communications" association about this study. When asked about the 55%, he replied that he was surprised - if "media professionals" (AKA spin doctors) were doing their job properly & representing their clients interests he would have expected the number to be closer to 75%! He was disappointed!
Spinning the Media: Key findings in a week in the life of the media
by Wendy Bacon, Michelle Loh, Alex Taylor and Sasha Pavey
by Wendy Bacon, Michelle Loh, Alex Taylor and Sasha Pavey
- 2203 separate stories were analysed across 10 newspapers between September 7 and 11, 2009 to see whether they were initiated by public relations or promotions.
- The study found that nearly 55% of stories analysed were driven by some form of public relations — a media release, a public relations professional or some other form of promotion.
- The 10 newspapers were the hard-copy editions of The Australian Financial Review, The Advertiser (Adelaide), The Courier-Mail (Brisbane), Daily Telegraph, Herald Sun, The Mercury (Hobart), The Australian, The Age, Sydney Morning Herald and The West Australian.
- Sydney’s Daily Telegraph, which topped the week’s study with 70% of stories analysed triggered by public relations. Australian Centre for Independent Journalism student researchers identified media releases behind 44% of The Daily Telegraph’s stories analysed.
- The least PR driven publication for this week was its competitor The Sydney Morning Herald with only 42% PR driven stories. Melbourne, the only other Australian city to have two metropolitan newspapers, followed a similar pattern: stories analysed in The Age were 47% public relations driven compared to 65% of The Herald Sun.
- In this week, papers owned by News Ltd, which controls more than two-thirds of the Australian metropolitan print media market, were more PR driven than those owned by Fairfax Media.
- Articles were identified across the Australian print media in which journalists put their by-line on stories that were republished press releases with little or no significant extra journalism work. Of 2203 articles, more than 500 or 24% had no significant extra perspective, source or content added by reporters.
- News and feature stories were analysed across health, medicine, science, technology, business, politics, rural, arts, entertainment, environment and energy and motoring rounds. Different publications focus more heavily on different rounds so for this reason; we did not have the same number of articles in each round or across each publication.
- The business and politics rounds had the lowest concentration of PR-driven journalism, with business coverage being half public relations driven (50%) and politics at more than one third at 37%. The lower figures for politics may be because more public relations activity happens behind the scenes through journalists’ relationships with politicians and their advisers and for that reason is harder to identify.
- The highest levels of PR content were found in the innovation/technology (77%) and police (71%) rounds.
- Other rounds were health/medicine/science (52%), education (63%), arts/entertainment (61.80%)
Coincidently I was listening to an interview with the head of thenational "Communications" association about this study. When asked about the 55%, he replied that he was surprised - if "media professionals" (AKA spin doctors) were doing their job properly & representing their clients interests he would have expected the number to be closer to 75%! He was disappointed!
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Will we pay to read Creedy
From tomorrow access to most of the News Limited newspapers will be pay for view.
This is the point where free sites like Business Spectator, Crikey, Plane Talking, Flight Global, and for that matter Pprune, become the default source of information for those that just find it inconvenient to renew their subscriptions to pay wall sites even if the fee is tiny.
The Age and Sydney Morning Herald sites are going pay as well soon like the Australian Financial Review. I think when it comes to getting the message to the public the whole game is now going to change big time.
Maybe it won't be a change for the good, but maybe it will see more information being sourced from people unaffected by advertising, since on line ads are dirt cheap and nobody is every going to make a living out of them.
But to use this situation to best advantage people who work for airlines are going to have to look carefully at how these changes play out, and change media tactics accordingly.
This is the point where free sites like Business Spectator, Crikey, Plane Talking, Flight Global, and for that matter Pprune, become the default source of information for those that just find it inconvenient to renew their subscriptions to pay wall sites even if the fee is tiny.
The Age and Sydney Morning Herald sites are going pay as well soon like the Australian Financial Review. I think when it comes to getting the message to the public the whole game is now going to change big time.
Maybe it won't be a change for the good, but maybe it will see more information being sourced from people unaffected by advertising, since on line ads are dirt cheap and nobody is every going to make a living out of them.
But to use this situation to best advantage people who work for airlines are going to have to look carefully at how these changes play out, and change media tactics accordingly.
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Originally Posted by Jonny Suave Trousers
On a parting note, most media people are left leaning....
Janet Albrechtsen? Andrew Bolt? Piers Akerman? Greg Sheridan? Dennis Shanahan? Left leaning? Chris Mitchell, Editor of The Australian? Left leaning? You are seriously not going to make me start pasting quotes and editorials up here from all of the above, are you? We may have to agree to disagree on which direction "left" actually is according to conventional wisdom!
Some of the above appear to be aspiring to reach the levels of famed US personalities like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.You are certainly quite right in what you say about selling papers though. If it doesn't sell papers, it's often not considered newsworthy. You can get 5,000 people massacred in central Africa and nary a person raises an eyebrow (Yeah whatever. Who cares?), but when Brangelina are rumoured to be splitting, it's up on the TV news in the first 5 minutes (OMG did you hear about Brangelina? Is it true?
).As a Qantas employee and pilot, I'm personally quite frustrated on occasions by MSM reporting of the dispute. It appears that any nonsense sprouted by Olivia Wirth or released by her in a press release is quite uncritically and prominently reported in the MSM, even when it can be shown to be either false or flagrantly misleading. I don't really understand why you wouldn't make a simple phone call or two and take 10 minutes of your time to clear up any misconceptions.
The most prominent serial offenders newspaper-wise are News Ltd staples like the Daily Telegraph which harbours several of the more nuttier columnists and reporters seen in Australia, and The Australian whose editor is known to have a political inclination leaning prominently in one direction which he has previously made no secret of in certain exchanges with some of his own journalists. The SMH tends to mostly get its facts right on this dispute (which will unfortunately have me immediately accused of supporting a left-wing agenda) and journos like Ben Sandilands obviously get some very sharp inside information about the real goings on within Qantas.
BTW, in case you haven't noticed, threats and intimidation between Qantas and its employees do not occur on a one-way street. In fact Qantas has a long and proud tradition going back to the very start of the Dixon era of threatening its employees with mass layoffs and various other things if they don't accept pay freezes, etc. In day to day work, being threatened by a Manager is just ho-hum. I had a beauty from a Qantas HR Manager many years ago, in writing, alluding to termination of employment for breach of contract. Naturally he shot his mouth off before he had his facts straight and subsequently conceded it was a mistake when it was brought to the attention of the Qantas Chief Pilot, but I kept the letter for posterity. He has since been promoted to quite a senior management position, as you do in Qantas.
That's my take on it, anyway.
Last edited by DutchRoll; 23rd Oct 2011 at 00:50. Reason: name spelling
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Real story never ! sensationalism sells
Groundings - oop's retiring aircraft.
Going to be sold - 787 delayed -still required- didn't bother booking in maintenance due. Can't do it in Australia - due to closure heavy maintenance. Can't get it done overseas ( at the right price) didn't book it in.
Solution
- blame industrial action more newsworthy than the truth.(Management stuff up)
Call the Unions thugs and bullies - spin we are ready to go back to the table and negotiate but our position hasn't changed. No job security as we are moving off shore!
Going to be sold - 787 delayed -still required- didn't bother booking in maintenance due. Can't do it in Australia - due to closure heavy maintenance. Can't get it done overseas ( at the right price) didn't book it in.
Solution
- blame industrial action more newsworthy than the truth.(Management stuff up)
Call the Unions thugs and bullies - spin we are ready to go back to the table and negotiate but our position hasn't changed. No job security as we are moving off shore!
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JST
JST, I take exception to 2 of your previous points :
our "cause is quite boring to the mainstream and not really newsworthy"... then why get involved at all? Why report ANYTHING to do with this dispute? Surely if OUR cause is boring then the WHOLE story is boring. Your point doesn't make sense.
then,
"mainstream opinion right now is that unions are holding Qantas to ransom"...well who's fault is it if that's what the main think? When you don't provide balanced reporting the main have no choice but to believe what is written.
And lastly, you have to remember that Qantas employs 35 000 workers. Say we each have 10 people in our immediate family and 10 close friends and 20 distant friends. I can guarantee you that there are at least 1 400 000 Australians that do find this mess newsworthy and who do want the full story.
By not providing, in detail, both sides of this story you are doing yourself an injustice as a journalist and by assuming the main don't care you are insulting Australian intelligence.
our "cause is quite boring to the mainstream and not really newsworthy"... then why get involved at all? Why report ANYTHING to do with this dispute? Surely if OUR cause is boring then the WHOLE story is boring. Your point doesn't make sense.
then,
"mainstream opinion right now is that unions are holding Qantas to ransom"...well who's fault is it if that's what the main think? When you don't provide balanced reporting the main have no choice but to believe what is written.
And lastly, you have to remember that Qantas employs 35 000 workers. Say we each have 10 people in our immediate family and 10 close friends and 20 distant friends. I can guarantee you that there are at least 1 400 000 Australians that do find this mess newsworthy and who do want the full story.
By not providing, in detail, both sides of this story you are doing yourself an injustice as a journalist and by assuming the main don't care you are insulting Australian intelligence.
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realities: nothing will happen to balance the stories until we all start pushing out the facts.
Worthless and even more dissapointing of late, Justin Kelly get away with spruiking lies and ignorance for their boss because today's journalists are largely weak.
Creedy has never written a truly analytical piece in his life and muppets like Geoffrey Thomas just parrot the company line because they know nothing else.
The inside Q story is one of huge stuff ups, poor management choices, and outright deception. Draw up a list - it's long and the losses are substantial. e.g. The current reconfig of the 744's is yet another chapter in this sad saga. In fact publish the list as the top 50 line items that the shareholders don't know about.
The story starts with the erosion of the safety management system under Joyce and ultimately it will end with a Coronial investigation. That's the reality and that's the story that needs to be told. Offshore underpaid, overworked and less experienced pilots will make mistakes. Inexperienced CC (who in reality get the pax off in an emergency) will also make mistakes. Serious mistakes means people die. it's that simple. Even the likes of Alan Milne stating re RR: "we didn't know there was a problem" - lies or incompetence - either way Q is damn lucky they did not have 451 funerals to send flowers to.
In between there are tens of millions of losses due to management stuff ups (the 330 3 abreast J class seats alone represent 14% of the alleged international loss).
Then add in all the other lies - last week 5 a/c grounded but they neglected to say that a new one arrived in YMML the very same night - what about the use of the Prime Minister's 737 as a spare parts resource and that failed Wx unit that caused the PM to divert a while back was actually a replacement taken from older QF a/c to replace the one taken previously - same for the VHF antenna that came off the PM's a/c to get a QF a/c back on line..(refer RAAF email to QF leaked to Fairfax last year) .....just like the 380's nil parts, nil time issue - it means a/c are increasingly running around with more and more defects.
Then there's the hand on heart promise stated in the Senate Inquiry that the 330's going to SIN are and WILL be AUS registered and crewed ....guess what rego is on them now.... all this to say nothing of the $83 million that was amortised across the QF Group to cover JQ's start up - I can't see the return in any report - actually the reporting while compliant, is deliberately designed to mask opex.
Team Clifford with Joyce at the helm are not listening to the terrain warnings - their spin is louder than the horns and apart from Purvinas we are all playing a gentlemans' game and letting them put our livlihoods and safety at risk.
QF closed out below 1.50 on Friday - the small number of intitutionals carry the power and they are hanging onto the belief that the grand plan will give the numbers some positive climb - This week therefore EVERYONE needs to raise the mismanagement issues with examples on talkback, blogs and online.
This is not about IR - it's about sound business sense and I'm quite sure that everyone from the cleaner to the captain can suggest at least 3 ways to save costs and improve efficiency. Getting rid of Joyce and Clifford's other patsies is a good start.
Oh when you do log on to read Creedy and Co - start giving the Oz some feedback as it is currently the weakest aviation section I have seen anywhere in world........ the lawyers pages are even more interesting!!
institutionals pls note: - back Joyce's bonus and I will make sure I encourage as many people as I know to ensure their investments, super etc goes nowhere those funds.
rant over
AT
Worthless and even more dissapointing of late, Justin Kelly get away with spruiking lies and ignorance for their boss because today's journalists are largely weak.
Creedy has never written a truly analytical piece in his life and muppets like Geoffrey Thomas just parrot the company line because they know nothing else.
The inside Q story is one of huge stuff ups, poor management choices, and outright deception. Draw up a list - it's long and the losses are substantial. e.g. The current reconfig of the 744's is yet another chapter in this sad saga. In fact publish the list as the top 50 line items that the shareholders don't know about.
The story starts with the erosion of the safety management system under Joyce and ultimately it will end with a Coronial investigation. That's the reality and that's the story that needs to be told. Offshore underpaid, overworked and less experienced pilots will make mistakes. Inexperienced CC (who in reality get the pax off in an emergency) will also make mistakes. Serious mistakes means people die. it's that simple. Even the likes of Alan Milne stating re RR: "we didn't know there was a problem" - lies or incompetence - either way Q is damn lucky they did not have 451 funerals to send flowers to.
In between there are tens of millions of losses due to management stuff ups (the 330 3 abreast J class seats alone represent 14% of the alleged international loss).
Then add in all the other lies - last week 5 a/c grounded but they neglected to say that a new one arrived in YMML the very same night - what about the use of the Prime Minister's 737 as a spare parts resource and that failed Wx unit that caused the PM to divert a while back was actually a replacement taken from older QF a/c to replace the one taken previously - same for the VHF antenna that came off the PM's a/c to get a QF a/c back on line..(refer RAAF email to QF leaked to Fairfax last year) .....just like the 380's nil parts, nil time issue - it means a/c are increasingly running around with more and more defects.
Then there's the hand on heart promise stated in the Senate Inquiry that the 330's going to SIN are and WILL be AUS registered and crewed ....guess what rego is on them now.... all this to say nothing of the $83 million that was amortised across the QF Group to cover JQ's start up - I can't see the return in any report - actually the reporting while compliant, is deliberately designed to mask opex.
Team Clifford with Joyce at the helm are not listening to the terrain warnings - their spin is louder than the horns and apart from Purvinas we are all playing a gentlemans' game and letting them put our livlihoods and safety at risk.
QF closed out below 1.50 on Friday - the small number of intitutionals carry the power and they are hanging onto the belief that the grand plan will give the numbers some positive climb - This week therefore EVERYONE needs to raise the mismanagement issues with examples on talkback, blogs and online.
This is not about IR - it's about sound business sense and I'm quite sure that everyone from the cleaner to the captain can suggest at least 3 ways to save costs and improve efficiency. Getting rid of Joyce and Clifford's other patsies is a good start.
Oh when you do log on to read Creedy and Co - start giving the Oz some feedback as it is currently the weakest aviation section I have seen anywhere in world........ the lawyers pages are even more interesting!!
institutionals pls note: - back Joyce's bonus and I will make sure I encourage as many people as I know to ensure their investments, super etc goes nowhere those funds.
rant over
AT
Last edited by airtags; 23rd Oct 2011 at 04:31.
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deanbol - Murdoch and those who have decided to charge for on-line viewing of their news have made a serious error of judgement, and are unable to grasp the fact that the Internet has made their "pay to read", financial model of newspapers, something that cannot be simply transferred to the Internet.
I will pay to read news on the 'Net from on-line major newspapers, when I find high quality journalism; well written, balanced articles; articles without serious errors such as sentences missing (indicating a total lack of simple proof-reading); articles that haven't been copied almost in their entirety from some other news source; and articles that have photos and videos related precisely to the story (i.e. - not "generic" pictures).
Until that time, I will source my news and views from the 10,000 other websites that give their information freely, and which information is then exchanged freely with others, to ensure wide dissemination.
The old days of newspapers ruling the world are behind you, Mr Murdoch. You are a dinosaur living in the 21st century, and your inability to adapt to our 21st Century methods of fast, personal, and widespread communication, without resort to paying for news, and the bias of your personal support for your favourite political parties and leanings, being included as part of the deal, are long gone.
I will pay to read news on the 'Net from on-line major newspapers, when I find high quality journalism; well written, balanced articles; articles without serious errors such as sentences missing (indicating a total lack of simple proof-reading); articles that haven't been copied almost in their entirety from some other news source; and articles that have photos and videos related precisely to the story (i.e. - not "generic" pictures).
Until that time, I will source my news and views from the 10,000 other websites that give their information freely, and which information is then exchanged freely with others, to ensure wide dissemination.
The old days of newspapers ruling the world are behind you, Mr Murdoch. You are a dinosaur living in the 21st century, and your inability to adapt to our 21st Century methods of fast, personal, and widespread communication, without resort to paying for news, and the bias of your personal support for your favourite political parties and leanings, being included as part of the deal, are long gone.
Requests for his assistance, assume 'JST' is actually capable of a readership and not just a lightweight who enjoys being contrary. I have a little trouble understanding the reason for his involvement in this forum....
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Qantas looked at farming out jobs smh 24/10/11
Confidential documents seen by the Herald reveal that Qantas managers have discussed plans to end its ground-handling operations by 2020. The talks were part of a range of options canvassed by managers about what shape the airline should take in the longer term.
The discussions included outsourcing to labour-hire companies the loading and unloading of aircraft. This would have thrown into jeopardy the jobs of as many as 2500 Qantas workers employed primarily as baggage and ramp handlers at airports around the country.
and,
But last night Qantas said it had ''absolutely no plans to outsource'' its ground-handling operations.
The corporate affairs chief, Olivia Wirth, said the company did consider a ''range of options across all areas of our business from time to time but that is not an option that is being considered or implemented''.
''Qantas doesn't use outsourcing.
Read more: Qantas looked at farming out jobs
Confidential documents seen by the Herald reveal that Qantas managers have discussed plans to end its ground-handling operations by 2020. The talks were part of a range of options canvassed by managers about what shape the airline should take in the longer term.
and,
But last night Qantas said it had ''absolutely no plans to outsource'' its ground-handling operations.
The corporate affairs chief, Olivia Wirth, said the company did consider a ''range of options across all areas of our business from time to time but that is not an option that is being considered or implemented''.
''Qantas doesn't use outsourcing.
Read more: Qantas looked at farming out jobs
We all know this is a half truth at best! Qantas group also includes J* who definitely outsource. For all of us we know she is spinning a yarn to appease the TWU on the week leading up to the AGM. She is sending out the message that Qantas all of a sudden, are willing to talk to the TWU, but I believe only until the AGM is out of the way. I don't believe the management are serious at all considering their track record.
My point is, if we are to get the message across the the public, we need a astute union media operator burning the candle Sunday night/early Monday morning waiting for a story like this, to counter the spin.
On this story, reading between the lines, I see a journalist taking the time to read a document he received from Qantas or a third party claiming that the management were / still are looking very seriously at making redundant 2500 staff.
My first thought after reading this story.. Is this figure 2500 on top of the already announced 1000 job cuts?
I sense Matt O'sullivan the writer of this piece (by far one of the more balanced journalist reporting on the current Qantas/union situation) would be glad to hear other points of views to expand this story. Sadly throughout this Qantas campaign the unions have been too slow to react or challenge the spin from the Qantas spin machine.
The journalist moves on because he has to meet his media outlet's deadlines hence the story gets lost. The unions spend the rest of the week playing catch up to get their counter punches in on the story that started early Monday morning, by then it's Friday, the weekend comes and goes, the cycle starts all over again.
As this is AGM week, AJ and OW will be looking for every opportunity to get get their version of positive spin in, trust our side of the fence can be slick with the counter spin that would make the AGM very uncomfortable for the Q managers this coming Friday.
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Qantas doesn't use outsourcing.
Today I am pleased to advise you that Qantas has extended our Master Operating Agreement with Cobham Airline Services for a further six years. Cobham will continue operating the B717s until the expiry of the aircraft leases in 2018. The new operating agreement covers all thirteen B717s, including the two additional Brisbane-based aircraft that we recently announced will be joining our fleet in early 2012.
Narendra Kumar
Executive Manager
Qantas Regional Airlines Group
Executive Manager
Qantas Regional Airlines Group
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Qantas doesn't use outsourcing.
Most component maintenance.
767 now in Sin.
737's returned recently form o'seas.
380 now in LHT Frankfurt.
The entire Avalon AME workforce and many LAMEs outsourced to Forstaff.
They just blatantly lie to the public. Isn't there something in the Qantas policies about honesty, integrity and ethics?
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Steve
You would think that as a public company they would be bound by some rules regarding public statements which may affect the share price.
I am astounded that they their blatant lies to the public continually go unchecked. If Qantas can get away with it god knows how many other companies are doing it. In my view the whole Qantas PR message is tantamount to some form of corporate fraud. Shouldn't the executive be doing everything thay can to talk up the company and thereby providing some momentum to the shareprice.
As has been mentioned here before these bastards are playing a different game to us. They are about destruction and dismantling Qantas as we know it. At what point will they have to declare the true plan to the shareholders.
It continues to be ****ty times. Over the weekend friends I was with have totally fallen for the Qantas lies and are regurgitating how overpaid and underworked I am as a pilot. Very frustrating
Still one hopes that eventually the truth will come out and AJ and his mates will be called to account. I hope so anyway
You would think that as a public company they would be bound by some rules regarding public statements which may affect the share price.
I am astounded that they their blatant lies to the public continually go unchecked. If Qantas can get away with it god knows how many other companies are doing it. In my view the whole Qantas PR message is tantamount to some form of corporate fraud. Shouldn't the executive be doing everything thay can to talk up the company and thereby providing some momentum to the shareprice.
As has been mentioned here before these bastards are playing a different game to us. They are about destruction and dismantling Qantas as we know it. At what point will they have to declare the true plan to the shareholders.
It continues to be ****ty times. Over the weekend friends I was with have totally fallen for the Qantas lies and are regurgitating how overpaid and underworked I am as a pilot. Very frustrating
Still one hopes that eventually the truth will come out and AJ and his mates will be called to account. I hope so anyway
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Speaking of Lies, and outsourcing for that matter, from the Keep Qantas flying website:
'Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
All Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
This includes every Qantas domestic flight and every Qantas international flight.
Union claims to the contrary are incorrect and misleading.'
Erm... Jetconnect, Express Freighters Australia, Atlas, and ATA. Just FOUR organisations that operate International and Domestic Qantas flights without Qantas pilots. Not codeshares, but actual Qantas Flights with Qantas flight numbers
'Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
All Qantas-operated flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
This includes every Qantas domestic flight and every Qantas international flight.
Union claims to the contrary are incorrect and misleading.'
Erm... Jetconnect, Express Freighters Australia, Atlas, and ATA. Just FOUR organisations that operate International and Domestic Qantas flights without Qantas pilots. Not codeshares, but actual Qantas Flights with Qantas flight numbers
h.o.t.a.s - The statement is deliberately ambiguous.
By using the word "operated" they appear to have chosen to mean by mainline staff. i.e. "qantas operated" means QF flights crewed mainline staff (as opposed to Jitconnect, Cobham etc).
Thus, they can then "truthfully" claim that every (dom/intl) flight with Qantas pilots on board is crewed by Qantas pilots. Given the aforementioned premise this statement is not incorrect.
By using the word "operated" they appear to have chosen to mean by mainline staff. i.e. "qantas operated" means QF flights crewed mainline staff (as opposed to Jitconnect, Cobham etc).
Thus, they can then "truthfully" claim that every (dom/intl) flight with Qantas pilots on board is crewed by Qantas pilots. Given the aforementioned premise this statement is not incorrect.
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Yep, you're right, and the ambiguity wont be questioned by journalists, or the general public, who will think that it applies to their Jetconnect flight across the ditch (which is the obvious intent).
It can be added to the list of half truths and blatant lies that have been permeating the 30 second grabs throughout the media. These are the ones that do alot of damage, get published unquestioned and, disappointingly, usually end up unanswered by opposing voices.
I may have missed it but personally I haven't seen, or at least can't cite an example of the Employees side using this tactic.
No matter how much of a low blow it is, you can't deny its effectiveness, and the unions/employees don't seem to be winning any friends by playing fair!
It can be added to the list of half truths and blatant lies that have been permeating the 30 second grabs throughout the media. These are the ones that do alot of damage, get published unquestioned and, disappointingly, usually end up unanswered by opposing voices.
I may have missed it but personally I haven't seen, or at least can't cite an example of the Employees side using this tactic.
No matter how much of a low blow it is, you can't deny its effectiveness, and the unions/employees don't seem to be winning any friends by playing fair!
Yeah transpose the word operated for branded and it becomes a lie..
'Qantas-branded flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
All Qantas-branded flights are flown by Qantas pilots.'
Surreptitiously passing off QF Branded as QF Operated goes to the very heart of this issue.
'Qantas-branded flights are flown by Qantas pilots.
All Qantas-branded flights are flown by Qantas pilots.'
Surreptitiously passing off QF Branded as QF Operated goes to the very heart of this issue.
Last edited by Roo; 23rd Oct 2011 at 23:54.