Norfolk Air Tender
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Ringbinder:
WTF?? Well I did say in my original post that it was just a rumour. After all, this forum is a "rumour network". A friend from the Island mentioned it in passing. I changed my post once I read the official media release. Its easy when you know how to use the internet. How is it misleading? Do you take every rumour you hear for real until the final washout? And opportunist?? Weird...
17 Floors - you changed your post from "rumours on the Island and Virgin" to now nominating ANZ as the winner - and all 8 hours or so before the official announcement!!!
Somewhat misleading or opportunist, don't you think?
Somewhat misleading or opportunist, don't you think?
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GreggP:
Not so. NLK - Australian routes have always been international ones. There is nothing domestic about it.
Its official Air New Zealand are the new Australian domestic carrier...
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Better check your sources, 17, 'cos I believe that Virgin weren't even a contender.
What a "great" decision by the current Australian government, paying a subsidy to a foreign carrier - defies any semblance of logic!!! My sources advise me that several Aussie operators put their hats in the ring - a proper response to which which would have meant job security for Aussies, &c etc. Will also potentially mean less jobs for the NLK'ians currently employed under the existing arrangement.
But, remember, this is the same government that single-handedly ruined the live meat export industry (you can't tell me that the Indo's cutback on quotas isn't "payback"), have stuffed the refugee situation, couldn't organise a p1ss-up in a brewery - OH! where do I stop - but have rewarded themselves by accepting massive pay rises (of the order generally larger than the average wage) in the belief they are doing a good job. FFS!!!!
I hope ANZ lifts their game. They have a history of not even launching from AKL if the forecast is bad. Their current weekly AKL-NLK v.v. can run several days late on the strength of a forecast. E.g. only recently there was a weekend where the encumbent operated at least 4 sectors successfully into the island whilst ANZ sat on the ground - all on the strength of forecasts which turned out to be far worse than the actual conditions throughout the weekend. They eventually turned up 4 days later!!!! I feel for the Islanders of whom many are friends - your reliable service (to the west) is about to be a thing of the past, have no doubt.
My taxes at work. At least I don't vote for them so am in no way responsible for yet another far cup!!!!!
What a "great" decision by the current Australian government, paying a subsidy to a foreign carrier - defies any semblance of logic!!! My sources advise me that several Aussie operators put their hats in the ring - a proper response to which which would have meant job security for Aussies, &c etc. Will also potentially mean less jobs for the NLK'ians currently employed under the existing arrangement.
But, remember, this is the same government that single-handedly ruined the live meat export industry (you can't tell me that the Indo's cutback on quotas isn't "payback"), have stuffed the refugee situation, couldn't organise a p1ss-up in a brewery - OH! where do I stop - but have rewarded themselves by accepting massive pay rises (of the order generally larger than the average wage) in the belief they are doing a good job. FFS!!!!
I hope ANZ lifts their game. They have a history of not even launching from AKL if the forecast is bad. Their current weekly AKL-NLK v.v. can run several days late on the strength of a forecast. E.g. only recently there was a weekend where the encumbent operated at least 4 sectors successfully into the island whilst ANZ sat on the ground - all on the strength of forecasts which turned out to be far worse than the actual conditions throughout the weekend. They eventually turned up 4 days later!!!! I feel for the Islanders of whom many are friends - your reliable service (to the west) is about to be a thing of the past, have no doubt.
My taxes at work. At least I don't vote for them so am in no way responsible for yet another far cup!!!!!
Incidentally, I'm from the Island, and Air NZ has delivered a tried and true service to the Norfolk for decades. I'm not saying its perfect, but many Australian airlines have come and gone over the years, which is extremely unsettling for a destination's tourism industry. Its the Island's connection with the outside world. It isn't a particularly viable route. Which is why in the end, the Norfolk Island Govt had to shoulder the financial burden of an air service itself. Its been great having a local airline with a local flavour and staff, but it is one luxury a small community like Norfolk simply cannot afford, when healthcare, social services and education demand greater attention. It was making the already precarious financial situation worse. Something had to be done, otherwise our air service would have suddenly ended (which has happened in the past) and the place would be scrambling again to find another airline. I for one am glad it was put by the Aust Govt to competitive tender.
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"many Australian airlines have come and gone over the years, "
and
"It isn't a particularly viable route. "
sums it up. But you would appear to expect airlines to keep operating none-the-less.
"Norfolk Island Govt had to shoulder the financial burden of an air service itself"
Not unusual nor inappropriate, it did so to support the island's businesses when it was needed. Would you have expected them to stand back and let it all implode. Mind you, the financial management over the years, well, enough said .............
A better solution would possibly have been for the sudsidy to be paid directly to the encumbent. I would not be at all surprised if the subsidy under the new arrangement eventually equals what Norfolk Air was underwriting in recent times. That way jobs would have been preserved at the very least.
Finally,
" when healthcare, social services and education demand greater attention."
Couldn't agree more, and I'm sure the $5 million compensation that has to be paid to end the current contract would have gone a long way to achieving that.
and
"It isn't a particularly viable route. "
sums it up. But you would appear to expect airlines to keep operating none-the-less.
"Norfolk Island Govt had to shoulder the financial burden of an air service itself"
Not unusual nor inappropriate, it did so to support the island's businesses when it was needed. Would you have expected them to stand back and let it all implode. Mind you, the financial management over the years, well, enough said .............
A better solution would possibly have been for the sudsidy to be paid directly to the encumbent. I would not be at all surprised if the subsidy under the new arrangement eventually equals what Norfolk Air was underwriting in recent times. That way jobs would have been preserved at the very least.
Finally,
" when healthcare, social services and education demand greater attention."
Couldn't agree more, and I'm sure the $5 million compensation that has to be paid to end the current contract would have gone a long way to achieving that.
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Pretty much agree with you in that NI had to do what it had to do.
However I don't expect an airline to continue to operate on an unprofitable route, which it seems what the Aus Govt thinks too, if its prepared to underwrite the service. Yes, one option could have been to underwrite Norfolk Air, but there must have been reasons why they didn't take that option. Reports regarding the local air crew have been immensely positive. The financial performance of the airline has been pretty bad, the aircraft getting on a bit - maybe it was about risk avoidance?
Yes it does seem odd that they paid out the contract rather than letting it expire and then putting it out for tender. $5 m is alot of money to a place like NI!
However I don't expect an airline to continue to operate on an unprofitable route, which it seems what the Aus Govt thinks too, if its prepared to underwrite the service. Yes, one option could have been to underwrite Norfolk Air, but there must have been reasons why they didn't take that option. Reports regarding the local air crew have been immensely positive. The financial performance of the airline has been pretty bad, the aircraft getting on a bit - maybe it was about risk avoidance?
Yes it does seem odd that they paid out the contract rather than letting it expire and then putting it out for tender. $5 m is alot of money to a place like NI!
Last edited by 17 floors up; 24th Dec 2011 at 22:20. Reason: adding new para
the aircraft getting on a bit - maybe it was about risk avoidance?
I'd think about what you've just posted and consider pulling it. It is a public forum and ------------------- need I say more?
Mods, an opinion, please?
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17 floors up
I wouldn't be too apologetic, time moves on and the need for more modern equipment meets the time line.
Quite a few guys on here slagged the 737 - 200's that did the NLK run not that long ago (and in hindsight there was huge merit in their arguement)
So if my taxes are paying, I have no problems for a airline that:
Has more than two aircraft.
Has modern aircraft...more than one generation up from the - 200.
Has a large infrastructure..
ETC ETC ETC
Perhaps there is another island in the pacific that could do with a modern airline as well.
I wouldn't be too apologetic, time moves on and the need for more modern equipment meets the time line.
Quite a few guys on here slagged the 737 - 200's that did the NLK run not that long ago (and in hindsight there was huge merit in their arguement)
So if my taxes are paying, I have no problems for a airline that:
Has more than two aircraft.
Has modern aircraft...more than one generation up from the - 200.
Has a large infrastructure..
ETC ETC ETC
Perhaps there is another island in the pacific that could do with a modern airline as well.
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Has modern aircraft...more than one generation up from the - 200.
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A few Questions and Answers on this subject.....
Who has an entire fleet of modern well equipped aircraft with an extensive network of Trans-Tasman routes, plus an industry leading product? Air New Zealand has a huge Tasman network, plus a 'Seats to Suit' product that is well placed to provide the varying customer expectations on the NLK route.
Who worked with Airservices Australia and CASA to design and implement a new RNP AR approaches at NLK? Air New Zealand supplied an A320 for validation flights and provided access on scheduled services for AsA and CASA staff to observe then approve these approach procedures.
Who has an entire fleet of A320s equipped to RNP AR status all their A320 crew trained and approved to fly RNP AR approaches and departures? Air New Zealand has invested significantly in RNP AR, while other airlines just think about spending the substaintial sums on aircraft upgrades and crew training.
Who had stuck with NLK through thick and thin for many years while other operators have come and gone? Air New Zealand has operated to NLK as long as I can remember.
In summary, Air New Zealand is very well placed to service NLK from both sides of the Tasman. Can we possible see a little less Aust V NZ on this forum and accept a more ANZAC based approach? NLK will do very well out of this arrangement.
Happy New Year fellow Australians and New Zealanders
.
Who has an entire fleet of modern well equipped aircraft with an extensive network of Trans-Tasman routes, plus an industry leading product? Air New Zealand has a huge Tasman network, plus a 'Seats to Suit' product that is well placed to provide the varying customer expectations on the NLK route.
Who worked with Airservices Australia and CASA to design and implement a new RNP AR approaches at NLK? Air New Zealand supplied an A320 for validation flights and provided access on scheduled services for AsA and CASA staff to observe then approve these approach procedures.
Who has an entire fleet of A320s equipped to RNP AR status all their A320 crew trained and approved to fly RNP AR approaches and departures? Air New Zealand has invested significantly in RNP AR, while other airlines just think about spending the substaintial sums on aircraft upgrades and crew training.
Who had stuck with NLK through thick and thin for many years while other operators have come and gone? Air New Zealand has operated to NLK as long as I can remember.
In summary, Air New Zealand is very well placed to service NLK from both sides of the Tasman. Can we possible see a little less Aust V NZ on this forum and accept a more ANZAC based approach? NLK will do very well out of this arrangement.
Happy New Year fellow Australians and New Zealanders
.
Last edited by Route Guide; 26th Dec 2011 at 00:36.
Who worked with Airservices Australia and CASA to design and implement a new RNP AR approaches at NLK?
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Our Airline could find a new use for their 733:
Transfer refugees from Christmas Island over to Nauru that would keep it busy and the tab would be picked up by the Gillard government
Transfer refugees from Christmas Island over to Nauru that would keep it busy and the tab would be picked up by the Gillard government
I seem to remember that Flight West or Alliance did much of the initial spade work on this project, long before ANZ got A-320's.
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Perhaps there is another island in the pacific that could do with a modern airline as well. 
Seems to me there are several islands (countries), that could use more modern local airlines. But first they have to have good,- honest - management, and have the traffic to sustain the infrastructure (- that is, pay for the essentials)
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has been sitting at AKL for around 3months
In AKL for a "C-check"?
Job made bigger because of cabin re-fit, installation of GPS and now just awaiting engine to be fitted. Should all be done within a week or so but the Christmas break hasn't helped progress.
How do I know? It's part of my job to work on the thing occasionally.
Last edited by dodo whirlygig; 27th Dec 2011 at 04:23. Reason: grammar
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frigatebird
Hi,
I was considering the incumbent that has NLK contract, Our Airline.
To my way of thinking is "Our Airline" existence is to service the residents of Nauru, with any CHT work, extra RPT, etc being the cream subsidises the primary reason.
With the current Australian political climate regards offshore processing It would be nice to see some of the money go towards assisting an updated fleet that would benefit the island, and allow a chance at getting contracts to Nauru with regards the obvious CHT work that more than likely will most likely come.
(Pre-empting a decision to open the Nauru offshore processing of course.)
Hi,
I was considering the incumbent that has NLK contract, Our Airline.
To my way of thinking is "Our Airline" existence is to service the residents of Nauru, with any CHT work, extra RPT, etc being the cream subsidises the primary reason.
With the current Australian political climate regards offshore processing It would be nice to see some of the money go towards assisting an updated fleet that would benefit the island, and allow a chance at getting contracts to Nauru with regards the obvious CHT work that more than likely will most likely come.
(Pre-empting a decision to open the Nauru offshore processing of course.)
Last edited by doleque; 27th Dec 2011 at 10:39.
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It would be nice to see some of the money go towards assisting an updated fleet that would benefit the island
But if it does happen, you can be sure there would be other operators, with bigger, more modern fleets, and economies of scale, that would bid for the charters, and use all sorts of arguments to sway the Guvmint Purser to look their way.
The local operator that goes to an island destination on a regular basis, day or night, fair weather or foul, even with thin loads because they are the only air link, SHOULD be recognised and given the benefit of extra revenue to allow upgrading its facilities.