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Decline in Pilot Salaries Survey

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Decline in Pilot Salaries Survey

Old 1st Oct 2011, 04:31
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NTH&STH,EAST&WEST
Posts: 180
MR MACH, do you still believe in the tooth fairy and santa? Slasher, Metro et el Aren't we greatful some people don"t have passports!! hahahahahahaa

PS, You must be the only person who believes what they read in press.

Hey MACH, we have lived in Aus, Asia, and many other parts of the world, so we are informed. We also have houses ( we all need holidays houses in Europe, asia and Aus lol) in many parts of the globe, so don't bring a knife to a gun fight son And for the record......why would I want to retire there with such insular people. I love Aus, but equally love so many other places and cultures. Australia has NO culture.

Well I'm now off my soap box, time to take the family for Yum Cha

Last edited by 40Deg STH; 1st Oct 2011 at 05:06.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 06:02
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 26
You must be the only person who believes what they read in press.
No but the Economist magazine (first published 1843) has more credibility than you! It is objective not subjective. It is worth the subscription - you might learn a thing or two.

Hey MACH, we have lived in Aus, Asia, and many other parts of the world, so we are informed
So Have I - First lived in Asia in 1964 - I have lived in Asia for years.

why would I want to retire there with such insular people.
Well - How is this for insularity?
Australia has NO culture
Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?

Most people like you cannot back up your statements with independent data - when you can, then you attain some credibility.

Your responses are opinion with no credible facts or a link to back up your position.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 10:58
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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MACH, Sydney morning Hearald was first published 1831, do you believe all you read there ?

Please enjoy Aus for all of us and I'm pleased your happy to be there
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 14:29
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: U.S.A
Age: 52
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I dont have much interest in this totally subjective nonsense.

But, this still has me laughing:

"Australia has NO culture"

. . . . followed by

"Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?"

Your opinion is only valid if you can provide an interweb address thingy to prove it!!!!

Priceless.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 23:22
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
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MACH, Sydney morning Hearald was first published 1831
It is actually the Sydney Morning Herald!

It is quite obvious that you have never heard of the Economist magazine - but then I am not surprised!
Here are some links:
The Economist - World News, Politics, Economics, Business & Finance
The Economist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Economist Intelligence Unit also does regular surveys:Economist Intelligence Unit

I'd suggest that you write to them and tell them that their survey is wrong.

Th Economist magazine is regarded as the best Economic magazine in the World bar none.
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 23:38
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 55
Posts: 425
How about we stick to the topic and have a review of salaries now/then? After some calculation using the RBA inflation adjustment calculator, I arrived at the following: (salary then/inflation adj.)

GA SE pilot 1984: Then $19,000/ Now $46,500.

GA PA31 pilot SAL 1989: $28,000/$50,250.

Heavy Turbo-prop FO 1992 (with O/T): $65,000/$104,000.

Wide body international FO 1997: $135,000/$194,000.
-----------------------------------
Although I never flew SA340 the KD salaries were about (and I am happy to be corrected):

1989 FO: $38,000/$68,200
CA: $52,000/$93,300

I don't know for sure what GA salaries are like now, but I suspect that purchasing power has remained about the same for GA pilots (perhaps even gone up).
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Old 1st Oct 2011, 23:52
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
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oicur12.again - I dont have much interest in this totally subjective nonsense.
Again I am not surprised. Here is some education on the subject.

OBJECTIVITY & SUBJECTIVITY
The difference between these two important ideas is the difference between fact and opinion.
Facts are objective and provably true; however, if no clear facts exist about a topic, then a series of balanced opinions needs to be produced to allow the reader to make up his or her mind; opinions are subjective ideas held by individuals and so are always biased. If unbalanced opinions are presented as if they are facts, they act as propaganda or persuasion, e.g. a newspaper headline might state: "Youngsters are the prime cause of trouble in this area". This is presented as an objective fact but is clearly a subjective opinion.

A good example:
I would never go out in so many parts of Sydney and feel safe.
An objective piece of information, therefore, needs either to be the whole truth and at least be unbiased or balanced,(eg The Economist) whereas a subjective point of view is biased because it is either not the complete picture or it is merely a viewpoint or expression of feelings.
Objective + Subjective
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 01:48
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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I've got a good idea. Why doesn't the aviation industry follow the medical fraternity by protecting their salaries and conditions? They do this by making people do a university degree in medicine before being allowed to practice. The key here is they then are able to manage their industry as opposed to being managed by accountants by limiting the number of entrants in the first place thus avoiding oversupply of doctors. If there is always the minimum number entering you will never give employers the chance to say "if you don't like it then we will shake a tree and another pilot will fall out!" I think that is where our industry has got it wrong.
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 04:59
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Framer, you need to get out and venture more outside a little more.
I,ve lived and flown in asian countries, just not Hong Kong, or Japan or Singas. (Although I,ve passed through).
It still cracks me up what you said
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 06:59
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
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[quote=InTheWeeds;6729280]
Quote:
You guys really had my support until I read this thread - this makes you look like a bunch of private school kids sooking that the school tuckshop is out of cream buns...

I hope the media come across this and go to town on you all.
Mate, don't judge a whole profession on the opinions of a couple of clowns.

I agree with you that some of the opinions in this thread are astonishing.

What people get paid is based on economics and self worth. If managers can convince you your worthless, then you'll accept T&Cs at less than what the economics can afford. An inflated self worth doesn't change the economics, it only ends up pricing you out of the market.
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Old 2nd Oct 2011, 13:43
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Quote:
Australia has NO culture
Can you provide us with a link to back up this outlandish statement?
..

No Kulcher? How about the sight and sound of 95,550 screaming Bogans at the MCG on Saturday and you say no culture
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Old 4th Oct 2011, 19:10
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Back to the topic.

How do you stop the decline?
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 00:40
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Australia
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Similar thing has happened to Civil Engineers. In 2006 the government claimed there was going to be an engineering shortage. All the uni's expanded their engineering facilities and ended up pumping out more civil engineers than entry level graduate jobs. Prior to the 'civil engineering job shortage' the RTA had a cadetship for civil engineers. First year salary for a graduate engineer was $70k (which was very good money). Now it has dropped down to $30k (the minimum salary a fulltime engineer can earn in Australia) in just 5 years. Because the conditions are so bad for graduate engineers, some have been moving to Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Singapore for better conditions.

On the way home from Brisbane the other day I was talking to a Mining Engineer who does the FIFO. Their conditions have been eroding too. A few years ago they would do a 1 week on, 1 week off roster. Now, because there is so many people wanting to work in the mines, they now employ miners to do 2 weeks on 1 week off for the same amount of pay as a miner who does 1 week on, 1 week off.

Some how we need to get rid of those desparate people who are willing to work for less.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 05:07
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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Some how we need to get rid of those desparate people who are willing to work for less.
Somehow I don't think that is going to happen - ever! There are less & less jobs & more & more people wanting them, as the world population expands.

Automation started the decline in available jobs & now it is becoming regional as offshoring becomes common place, with business continually looking to cut costs.

At the moment it is a matter of choice in our part of the world. The preferred jobs are seeing more people wanting those jobs than the number of jobs available, causing a decline in T&C's. However there is a trend, even in developed countries, for reducing numbers of jobs & increasing numbers of job seekers. It may not be long before people will take any job, even if the pay is poor, just to put food on the table. And that will even affect the aviation industry, with many people trained to do little else.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 12:03
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
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There are less & less jobs & more & more people wanting them, as the world population expands.
That is a completely non-sensical argument. A greater world population demands more people to serve them and thereby generate more jobs.

Come back when you have researched pilot numbers in Oz over the last forty years.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 13:33
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
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A greater world population demands more people to serve them and thereby generate more jobs.
Now that is a completely non-sensical argument. And a simplistic one as well.

Last edited by Oakape; 5th Oct 2011 at 16:06.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 15:49
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
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A VB 737 Captain gets about $250,000, a QF A380 SO gets $180,000... And you guys have have the audacity to cry poor? Really? You know what the average "non-sky god" in this country earns per year? They don't get to fly for a living they work in shops, clean houses ect.
The average non-sky god isn't responsible for a US$500 000 000 insurance risk every time he goes to work, has the lives of 200 people in his hands and has his career on the line every time he does a medical or sim check.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 19:21
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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Cool .

Guys, the bottom line is not really how much you make, but where do you want to live and how much is your "Quality of Life" worth?
Either you accept it or not, OZ and NZ are the BEST countries to live in !
Sure the airlines in the Middle East are paying a good salary and providing all sorts of free bits like accommodation but why? Because they have to, if not, only guys from 3rd world countries would see the move there as a step forward...... in exchange you must be prepared to be away from HOME (your own country), family, friends etc.....in other words live in a golden jail !

Asia isn't better, the money is liveable, but no "FREE BITS". Except in Singapore but Singapore Airlines is the only airline providing an accommodation allowance. Of course not enough to rent a NICE 3 bedrooms apartment but at least it's something.

IN THE WEEDS: are you sure that a VB Capt make $250K? a mate in VB based in BNE as a 73 CAPT told me that his last salary was $201K GROSS so about $135K NET/year. Not bad at all if you ask me don't you agree????

Apart from Doctors, Lawyers and CEOs, do you know many people making $135K NET/year in BNE ? I'm sure you would agree that it is a bloody good salary and that's WITHOUT having to live in a shitty country in the Middle East or Asia.

Food for thoughts

Last edited by 74world; 7th Oct 2011 at 00:25.
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Old 5th Oct 2011, 23:05
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
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74W, but where do we draw the line? Would you work for 120k to live here, 100k? 80k? 40k?

That is the issue that we are fighting against.
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Old 6th Oct 2011, 06:49
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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Cool .

mcgrath50 what I'm saying is that $135K for a Capt position based in BNE isn't bad compare to more money overseas but having to live in a shitty country.
If you think that money is everything in life, then go overseas for the "big bucks" and sacrifice your quality of life. It's a way of thinking which I don't agree with but it's your choice....

What would be a good salary in OZ: 180K? 200K? 250K?

PS: to answer your last question, YES I would sign anytime for $135K NET/year based in BNE. Let me know who I should contact for that
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