Virgin & VIPA - pay rise
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Virgin & VIPA - pay rise
PlaneTalking - Friday 12th August.
Virgin Australia agrees to 28% pilot pay rise
August 12, 2011 – 12:32 am, by Ben Sandilands
In stark contrast to the situation at Qantas, former Qantas executive GM John Borghetti, and VIPA, which covers the largest number of Virgin Australia pilots, have reached an enterprise agreement which provides for pay rises of up to 28%.
In a statement VIPA says:
VIPA the union representing Virgin Australia and V Australia pilots, has secured pay rises of up to 28% for its members at Virgin, with its first enterprise agreement.
The agreement took almost two years to negotiate and offers significant improvement over the current common law contracts members were under.
VIPA is the largest pilot union in the Virgin Australia group and the agreement is to be voted on by pilots over the next two weeks.
VIPA Executive Director Simon O’Hara said today that the union hoped the agreement was the beginning of a professional and collaborative approach with Virgin regarding industrial relations issues with pilots.
“VIPA acknowledges that this good result would not have occurred if not for the imprimatur of the CEO, Mr. John Borghetti. There is no doubt that Mr Borghetti’s arrival ushered in a new era of industrial relations within the Virgin Australia Group.”
“VIPA supports the new CEO and also his mature approach to organizational and cultural change.”
In addition to the pay rise, the agreement provides for a comprehensive system for consultation between management and pilots, the introduction of a credit system, the cornerstone of this agreement, that measures overtime and work performed, a new insurance system for pilots and back-pay pay rises from 1 July if the agreement is voted up.
“This document represents the framework for the future and as such it is critically important that we achieved good structure and robust processes to underpin the Industrial relationship moving forward,” Mr O’Hara said.
The deal doesn’t put Virgin Australia at a cost disadvantage to Qantas, where the pilots are seeking annual rises of 2.5% over the three year period of their as yet unresolved enterprise agreement, as it fills in some of the existing pay differentials between both carriers.
The ‘stark’ differences are in the relationship between the Virgin Australia management and its pilots and engineers, where CEO John Borghetti is committed to increasing the use of Australian based employees to the maximum possible level, while Qantas is determined to shift jobs and assets off-shore and rotate through Australia flight and cabin crew paid under the terms and conditions of the labor laws of which ever country its foreign entities are based.
Qantas has previously said it will announce cuts to its Qantas international operations and more details concerning a proposed Asia based full service carrier and new transfers of business to international alliances on August 24.
It has refused to negotiate a guarantee sought by its pilot union AIPA, under which Qantas aircraft would always be flown by Australian based and trained flight crew, on the grounds that this would be a veto against change and innovation.
Earlier this week AIPA President, Captain Barry Jackson, told its annual dinner that Qantas regarded its experienced pilots as ‘inconvenient heroes’ in relation to recent in-flight crises involving the engine disintegration on an A380 near Singapore last November, and earlier incidents involving a temporarily out of control A330 that made an emergency landing at Learmonth, and the damaging decompression of a Boeing 747-400 prior to an emergency landing in Manila.
Jackson said the management of Qantas had destroyed in a few short years the brand value of the airline through mediocre decisions and a policy of denigrating and marginalising its pilots and maintenance engineers as being too expensively excellent for the cost cutting short term mentality that was evident at the board and executive level.
There was, he said, a lack of respect for the standards that had made Qantas a leader in aviation, and a determination to eliminate those advantages for the lesser requirements involved in meeting so-called world’s best practice when the Australian practices of Qantas had been superior.
He told the annual dinner of AIPA that the tradition of 90 years of excellence at Qantas deserved better than to be destroyed by a management that had failed to engage with its employees, or to grasp the importance of continuing the highest standards of pilot training and engineering excellence.
Jackson said AIPA was firmly committed to avoiding inconveniencing Qantas passengers through industrial action but would take important initiatives after the August 24 announcements to protect and save the meaning of Qantas to Australian travellers.
The developments at Virgin Australia are expected to strengthen AIPA in the further pursuit of a guarantee that Qantas remain genuinely Australian, instead of a sham branding exercise like the Qantas painted Jetconnect trans Tasman 737 services, or the various efforts Jetstar has made to pay pilots New Zealand wages for flying in Australia or hang Thai cabin crew off the end of 20 hour shifts to work domestic sectors in this country.
August 12, 2011 – 12:32 am, by Ben Sandilands
In stark contrast to the situation at Qantas, former Qantas executive GM John Borghetti, and VIPA, which covers the largest number of Virgin Australia pilots, have reached an enterprise agreement which provides for pay rises of up to 28%.
In a statement VIPA says:
VIPA the union representing Virgin Australia and V Australia pilots, has secured pay rises of up to 28% for its members at Virgin, with its first enterprise agreement.
The agreement took almost two years to negotiate and offers significant improvement over the current common law contracts members were under.
VIPA is the largest pilot union in the Virgin Australia group and the agreement is to be voted on by pilots over the next two weeks.
VIPA Executive Director Simon O’Hara said today that the union hoped the agreement was the beginning of a professional and collaborative approach with Virgin regarding industrial relations issues with pilots.
“VIPA acknowledges that this good result would not have occurred if not for the imprimatur of the CEO, Mr. John Borghetti. There is no doubt that Mr Borghetti’s arrival ushered in a new era of industrial relations within the Virgin Australia Group.”
“VIPA supports the new CEO and also his mature approach to organizational and cultural change.”
In addition to the pay rise, the agreement provides for a comprehensive system for consultation between management and pilots, the introduction of a credit system, the cornerstone of this agreement, that measures overtime and work performed, a new insurance system for pilots and back-pay pay rises from 1 July if the agreement is voted up.
“This document represents the framework for the future and as such it is critically important that we achieved good structure and robust processes to underpin the Industrial relationship moving forward,” Mr O’Hara said.
The deal doesn’t put Virgin Australia at a cost disadvantage to Qantas, where the pilots are seeking annual rises of 2.5% over the three year period of their as yet unresolved enterprise agreement, as it fills in some of the existing pay differentials between both carriers.
The ‘stark’ differences are in the relationship between the Virgin Australia management and its pilots and engineers, where CEO John Borghetti is committed to increasing the use of Australian based employees to the maximum possible level, while Qantas is determined to shift jobs and assets off-shore and rotate through Australia flight and cabin crew paid under the terms and conditions of the labor laws of which ever country its foreign entities are based.
Qantas has previously said it will announce cuts to its Qantas international operations and more details concerning a proposed Asia based full service carrier and new transfers of business to international alliances on August 24.
It has refused to negotiate a guarantee sought by its pilot union AIPA, under which Qantas aircraft would always be flown by Australian based and trained flight crew, on the grounds that this would be a veto against change and innovation.
Earlier this week AIPA President, Captain Barry Jackson, told its annual dinner that Qantas regarded its experienced pilots as ‘inconvenient heroes’ in relation to recent in-flight crises involving the engine disintegration on an A380 near Singapore last November, and earlier incidents involving a temporarily out of control A330 that made an emergency landing at Learmonth, and the damaging decompression of a Boeing 747-400 prior to an emergency landing in Manila.
Jackson said the management of Qantas had destroyed in a few short years the brand value of the airline through mediocre decisions and a policy of denigrating and marginalising its pilots and maintenance engineers as being too expensively excellent for the cost cutting short term mentality that was evident at the board and executive level.
There was, he said, a lack of respect for the standards that had made Qantas a leader in aviation, and a determination to eliminate those advantages for the lesser requirements involved in meeting so-called world’s best practice when the Australian practices of Qantas had been superior.
He told the annual dinner of AIPA that the tradition of 90 years of excellence at Qantas deserved better than to be destroyed by a management that had failed to engage with its employees, or to grasp the importance of continuing the highest standards of pilot training and engineering excellence.
Jackson said AIPA was firmly committed to avoiding inconveniencing Qantas passengers through industrial action but would take important initiatives after the August 24 announcements to protect and save the meaning of Qantas to Australian travellers.
The developments at Virgin Australia are expected to strengthen AIPA in the further pursuit of a guarantee that Qantas remain genuinely Australian, instead of a sham branding exercise like the Qantas painted Jetconnect trans Tasman 737 services, or the various efforts Jetstar has made to pay pilots New Zealand wages for flying in Australia or hang Thai cabin crew off the end of 20 hour shifts to work domestic sectors in this country.
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Well done guys and more power to you.
Borghetti is showing himself to be a man of integrity and someone who realises the value of his licensed technical staff ie pilots and engineers. I wonder if he has studied the Southwest style of management?
Here at QF we have drawn the short stick with a myopic and seemingly incompetent CEO if thats what you call him! The cheap penny pinching mentality and flawed business strategy will ensure that AJ & BB go down in history as two of the most talentless and overpaid executives in QF history.
AJ & BB are your garden variety dime a dozen execs all dressed up full of rhetoric but seriously short on achievment! Funny that I was always led to believe that the huge pay packets on offer to CEO's are designed to attract the best of the best.
What happened QF. Yes you guys at the board level. Hellooooooooo any body home?
Borghetti is showing himself to be a man of integrity and someone who realises the value of his licensed technical staff ie pilots and engineers. I wonder if he has studied the Southwest style of management?
Here at QF we have drawn the short stick with a myopic and seemingly incompetent CEO if thats what you call him! The cheap penny pinching mentality and flawed business strategy will ensure that AJ & BB go down in history as two of the most talentless and overpaid executives in QF history.
AJ & BB are your garden variety dime a dozen execs all dressed up full of rhetoric but seriously short on achievment! Funny that I was always led to believe that the huge pay packets on offer to CEO's are designed to attract the best of the best.
What happened QF. Yes you guys at the board level. Hellooooooooo any body home?
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Pony Poo, the EBA relates only to the V-Australia boys & girls at present, & for all the issues they had with individual contracts, one thing they didn't have to do was pay for a 777 type rating - & rightly so.
We here at Virgin Australia (a.k.a. "Blue" in our former guise) have been watching the V-Oz EBA developments very closely, as no doubt it serves as a template for what we might expect when negotiations commence on our next one.
At the risk of being a hypocrite, I think the practise of paying for type ratings is just wrong, & yet I did so anyway. I did so, because there were many other aspects of accepting the job that were conducive to family & lifestyle requirements, for which accepting a job with another carrier would have been unable to provide. I was not happy about it, but to refuse the job on a matter of principle would have been cutting my nose to spite my face. Unfortunately, the precedent had been set. Would I have preferred it the other way? Absolutely. However, I don't want to start an argument or slanging match about those who pay vs those who don't.
This thread is about the EBA, & in that context (whilst it's too late for those of us already here), I would love to see us adopt the same as V-Oz - i.e. training paid by the company & employees bonded for a set period. It's the right thing to do, it's the way it should have always been, & hopefully Borghetti & the company as a whole (with input from the respective unions) will be able to negotiate a similar EBA that shows the rest of the industry that not everyone has to compete in a race to the bottom - & still be successful.
We here at Virgin Australia (a.k.a. "Blue" in our former guise) have been watching the V-Oz EBA developments very closely, as no doubt it serves as a template for what we might expect when negotiations commence on our next one.
At the risk of being a hypocrite, I think the practise of paying for type ratings is just wrong, & yet I did so anyway. I did so, because there were many other aspects of accepting the job that were conducive to family & lifestyle requirements, for which accepting a job with another carrier would have been unable to provide. I was not happy about it, but to refuse the job on a matter of principle would have been cutting my nose to spite my face. Unfortunately, the precedent had been set. Would I have preferred it the other way? Absolutely. However, I don't want to start an argument or slanging match about those who pay vs those who don't.
This thread is about the EBA, & in that context (whilst it's too late for those of us already here), I would love to see us adopt the same as V-Oz - i.e. training paid by the company & employees bonded for a set period. It's the right thing to do, it's the way it should have always been, & hopefully Borghetti & the company as a whole (with input from the respective unions) will be able to negotiate a similar EBA that shows the rest of the industry that not everyone has to compete in a race to the bottom - & still be successful.
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I don't think that many would hold that you paid for your rating against you, Bunglerat. I applied to J* and VB but did not tick the "I will pay for rating" box. VA paid for my B777 rating as they did for every body. I never got a call for an interview from either J* or VB. Anyway, I now have 6 heavy jet type ratings and never paid for any of them---That's how it should be 
.
The EBA is a great step forward for the CzFOs who will now get a living wage. FOs to get pretty close to Ejet command salary too. In a nutshell:
. The EBA is a great step forward for the CzFOs who will now get a living wage. FOs to get pretty close to Ejet command salary too. In a nutshell:
- 56 day rosters and PBS
- Overtime .
- Group seniority
. - More money
- Increased allowances
...and if type ratings are still covered (with bonding) by V-Australia, then surely that will set a precedent for the upcoming Virgin Australia EBA in November to have the same system.
From all accounts, fleet pay (i.e. a narrow body rate) is more likely that not in the coming agreement.
From all accounts, fleet pay (i.e. a narrow body rate) is more likely that not in the coming agreement.
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From all accounts, fleet pay (i.e. a narrow body rate) is more likely that not in the coming agreement.
That's probably before the realisation sinks in that they have now cleverly locked in the pay for the largest "group" aircraft at $225K (with the 737 already on $190K) and that they now have a snowball's chance in hell of getting a decent payscale for the A330, let alone the 737. Maybe they'll realise that having pockets of underpaid pilots within the group can have a detrimental effect on their own back pocket and career aspirations. Suddenly NB/ WB fleet pay seems like a good idea.
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VIPA the union representing the largest number of Virgin Australia pilots??? In what world?
The usual crap from the VIPA PR machine.
Last time I checked the AFAP were also involved and managed to secure the majority of their log of claims including pay.
I love the way VIPA lay claim to single handedly being responsible for just about everything. Their news letters are always so entertaining.
Any accolade belongs to the AFAP & VIPA groups together.
The usual crap from the VIPA PR machine.
Last time I checked the AFAP were also involved and managed to secure the majority of their log of claims including pay.
I love the way VIPA lay claim to single handedly being responsible for just about everything. Their news letters are always so entertaining.
Any accolade belongs to the AFAP & VIPA groups together.
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Why would they raise the salary , when they dont need to attract pilots. Or are they after JQ pilots..
Somthing fishy....
Somthing fishy....
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Why would fleet pay for the 737/EMB receive such a luke warm reception as was the alleged result of the VIPA survey?
A lot of 737 pilots have gained their initial commands on the EMB. There are also a number of 737 FO's who will most probably do the same.
I think the company will be keen to discourage the steady stream of senior EMB pilots and check captains bidding off onto the 737 or 330 who are doing it purely for the money as the knock on cost for training is astronomical. This is also causing concern as the more experienced pilots depart leaving more junior Captains to fly with relatively inexperienced F/O's in some cases and newly appointed check captains.
A number of senior EMB pilots have admitted they would have remained on type if it were not for the $37,000 pay rise to bid across to the 737.
I don't think this issue is anywhere near dead!
A lot of 737 pilots have gained their initial commands on the EMB. There are also a number of 737 FO's who will most probably do the same.
I think the company will be keen to discourage the steady stream of senior EMB pilots and check captains bidding off onto the 737 or 330 who are doing it purely for the money as the knock on cost for training is astronomical. This is also causing concern as the more experienced pilots depart leaving more junior Captains to fly with relatively inexperienced F/O's in some cases and newly appointed check captains.
A number of senior EMB pilots have admitted they would have remained on type if it were not for the $37,000 pay rise to bid across to the 737.
I don't think this issue is anywhere near dead!
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Whilst I wouldn't expect any union to talk up an opposition union, I think it would be fair to say the AFAP made a substantial contribution to the process. What's more, save for a few niggles, the bargaining reps from both unions did not let politics get in the way of a good outcome for the pilots. Well done to all involved.
And i'm a VIPA member!
And i'm a VIPA member!
Fmc inop, You are totally right. These senior jungle jet pilots should be paid more to stay where they are. That should teach the 737 riffraff something.
I heard a very senior C172 pilot say the other day that he would not leave his grade 3 instructing position if he was paid $37000 more. Its kinda the same right?
Good work on the pay rise rise Vipa. Fingers crossed this flows through the rest Oz aviation.
I heard a very senior C172 pilot say the other day that he would not leave his grade 3 instructing position if he was paid $37000 more. Its kinda the same right?
Good work on the pay rise rise Vipa. Fingers crossed this flows through the rest Oz aviation.