QF to EK on LWOP
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: I prefer to remain north of a direct line BNE-ADL
Age: 49
Posts: 1,286
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes
on
10 Posts
Ben Sandilands quote in the comments section of his article about this
The talk I’m hearing is that Qantas faces around $500 million in restructuring costs including pilot terminations when it makes its August 24 announcement. Getting 120 of its first officers off its books before then would save it considerable money. However I think most pilots have studied the pilot shortage EK faces as it expands, and concluded that they will wait until they get the Qantas package, and then go to Emirates, or other expanding carriers. After discussing the arrangements with a tax consultant of course, so that they get the most out of the tax free environment in say, the UAE, at minimal cost in terms of applicable Australian tax laws.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's worth noting that this is NOT a contract, anyone accepted by EK will have completed all of the EK recruitment process, no different to anyone else.
So what if the guys decide to stay after 3 years, of course that they should keep their seniority number, after all they have given 3 years of service already.
The fact that they are there on a LWOP basis is really something in the background, if they choose to return to QF so be it, and the guys behind will move up a seniority number.
I think the realistic number will be 15 - 30.
So what if the guys decide to stay after 3 years, of course that they should keep their seniority number, after all they have given 3 years of service already.
The fact that they are there on a LWOP basis is really something in the background, if they choose to return to QF so be it, and the guys behind will move up a seniority number.
I think the realistic number will be 15 - 30.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dubai
Posts: 189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A3Lately Driver, I tend to disagree on the following point:
Regardless of whether QF Pilots come to EK or not, it will not stop EK increasing the terms & conditions for the "new joiners" if they become desperate enough. I'm sure that EK will want to start dividing & conquering our pilot group. What a better way than to have different payscales within the group?
What can you & I do if they start hiring F/O's on a higher salary or better conditions...........nothing.
Regardless of whether QF Pilots come to EK or not, it will not stop EK increasing the terms & conditions for the "new joiners" if they become desperate enough. I'm sure that EK will want to start dividing & conquering our pilot group. What a better way than to have different payscales within the group?
What can you & I do if they start hiring F/O's on a higher salary or better conditions...........nothing.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 17
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They ARE desperate and you guys will be undermining any chance of EK pilots getting back the conditions they had.
Possibly the most odd logic here - but lets examine this statement.....
So THEY have already lost their conditions?
Then how is an extra few blow-ins gonna make a difference? If a 700 odd pilot shortage has seen conditions worsen and not improve?
LR 3, I believe the only person here trying to rationalise the irrational - is you. To suggest that it is "Game On" if QF guys go over on LWOP and we should expect EK guys to come back and take QF commands is ignoring reality.
As I stated before, Qantas F/O's would go to Emirates at the back of the queue and would not effect the promotional prospects of any EK pilot. So tell me how this would justify EK blokes coming back and jumping ~1500 QF F/O and S/O's for a direct entry captain position???
And by your logic, any pilot who applies to EK is driving down the conditions there as they are lessening the shortage. So I guess that even applied to you at sometime also but you hold a special grudge against the prospect of a QF bloke doing the same.
As I stated before, Qantas F/O's would go to Emirates at the back of the queue and would not effect the promotional prospects of any EK pilot. So tell me how this would justify EK blokes coming back and jumping ~1500 QF F/O and S/O's for a direct entry captain position???
And by your logic, any pilot who applies to EK is driving down the conditions there as they are lessening the shortage. So I guess that even applied to you at sometime also but you hold a special grudge against the prospect of a QF bloke doing the same.
And by your logic, any pilot who applies to EK is driving down the conditions there as they are lessening the shortage.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: In Frozen Chunks (Cloud Cuckoo Land)
Age: 17
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If 120 take up the offer....which would be pretty remote...... it still leaves a shortage of 600 odd....
What are they gonna tell the other 600 applicants.... go away...you are lowering our conditions?
Remember - the conditions have to remain fairly good up there, otherwise why would you work in the environment - there really isnt much going for it as a foreigner.
What are they gonna tell the other 600 applicants.... go away...you are lowering our conditions?
Remember - the conditions have to remain fairly good up there, otherwise why would you work in the environment - there really isnt much going for it as a foreigner.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I can see how 120 QF drivers may hinder an improvement of our terms and conditions but looking at the bigger picture is it so bad?
120 pilots will take about 3-4 months to commence a course, and a further 3 months before they're online. That would allow the interview pool to fill up a little bit.
The disadvantage to us is that it would DELAY a potential pay rise etc etc in the short term. Remember 700 guys in 12 months, and 500 at least for each subsequent year for approx 5 years or more.... This is a drop in the ocean.
The advantages are, EK won't have to park airplanes as they arrive, 120 permanant QF FO's will allow an equivalent number of promotions to the left seat, for full time EK pilots. And reduces the chances the real threat....DEC's!
In my opinion this is a small price to pay...
120 pilots will take about 3-4 months to commence a course, and a further 3 months before they're online. That would allow the interview pool to fill up a little bit.
The disadvantage to us is that it would DELAY a potential pay rise etc etc in the short term. Remember 700 guys in 12 months, and 500 at least for each subsequent year for approx 5 years or more.... This is a drop in the ocean.
The advantages are, EK won't have to park airplanes as they arrive, 120 permanant QF FO's will allow an equivalent number of promotions to the left seat, for full time EK pilots. And reduces the chances the real threat....DEC's!
In my opinion this is a small price to pay...
Last edited by Easy Ryder; 9th Jul 2011 at 09:43.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Bundeena(AUSTRALIA)
Posts: 148
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
He Who Blinks first Loses
Dont take LWOP.
Stick around ,take the redundancy and then go work for Emirates.
If you have property in Australia rent it out.
Talk to a very competent tax expert about expat tax rates.
Do not slag off at each other.QF management are the enemy.Remember that
Stick around ,take the redundancy and then go work for Emirates.
If you have property in Australia rent it out.
Talk to a very competent tax expert about expat tax rates.
Do not slag off at each other.QF management are the enemy.Remember that
Good grief! All the hand-wringing, postulating and pontificating! Frankly, I really wonder how some of you will make it to retirement without a heart-attack, given the stuff you are worrying about.
HOW is any of this different to the SAME program Air New Zealand pilots went to EK on at least 3 years ago (it must be that long, as some of them returned to NZ after 3 years and the others stayed - about a 50:50 split, I am told) ?
EK is growing rapidly and has always sourced experienced pilots. Promotion of guys already there will NOT be affected by this program (unless you are secretly incompetent and were hoping for command by default due lack of any other suitable F/O's)
It is virtually a given (I would say "guaranteed") that QF guys going will still need to do the 3000 hours on EMIRATES aircraft before being eligible for command. That is 3 years minimum and more realistically 5 years or so. I would practically guarantee that to stay on and do a command would require a resignation from QF. And what is wrong with that? The QF guy will have earned his EK gig and done the time (no one is giving QF guys an automatic slot on EK; they each have to go through the EK selection process). But a command opportunity for him will not be ahead of guys there now (unless incompetent, etc etc)_
HOW is any of this different to the SAME program Air New Zealand pilots went to EK on at least 3 years ago (it must be that long, as some of them returned to NZ after 3 years and the others stayed - about a 50:50 split, I am told) ?
EK is growing rapidly and has always sourced experienced pilots. Promotion of guys already there will NOT be affected by this program (unless you are secretly incompetent and were hoping for command by default due lack of any other suitable F/O's)
It is virtually a given (I would say "guaranteed") that QF guys going will still need to do the 3000 hours on EMIRATES aircraft before being eligible for command. That is 3 years minimum and more realistically 5 years or so. I would practically guarantee that to stay on and do a command would require a resignation from QF. And what is wrong with that? The QF guy will have earned his EK gig and done the time (no one is giving QF guys an automatic slot on EK; they each have to go through the EK selection process). But a command opportunity for him will not be ahead of guys there now (unless incompetent, etc etc)_
Join Date: May 2004
Location: sydney
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bigboeingboy, with respect, you know that EK do more than 2 trips a month and pay far less the 330 or bigger?.. I would be highly suprised if they miss out on too many QF 'experienced' f/O's.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Shire
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standard.
Some of us actually do this job because we love it! Shock horror!
I for one am happy to fly as much as I can. I started the hard way with QF as a cadet years ago and I know what its like in the real world.
EK will benefit from the vast experience of the QF pilots. QF is the loser here. I have heard QF pilots with A380 time will actually be promoted to Captain once they arrive in Dubai.
Some of us actually do this job because we love it! Shock horror!
I for one am happy to fly as much as I can. I started the hard way with QF as a cadet years ago and I know what its like in the real world.
EK will benefit from the vast experience of the QF pilots. QF is the loser here. I have heard QF pilots with A380 time will actually be promoted to Captain once they arrive in Dubai.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Standard you a$$clown - last month I did 6 trips and had 10 days off. EK doesn't have a monopoly on being at work you know.
What an irrelevant waste of time this thread is. After Aug 24, somewhere in the vicinity of 1000 guys are going to be surplus to QF's requirements.
Its a fair bet that out of necessity, some will apply to EK. Hell some might even get in.
The LWOP piece is a sideshow and a distraction. In the big scheme of things its meaningless to the numbers of "ex" QF guys that are going to apply.
Given the number of EK guys that have come back to Australia to work for the JQ and Tiger Z scales, I find it a bit rich that you are complaining about the reverse occurring.
If you feel so strongly about things, apply to IFALPA for a recruiting ban. See how far you get.
ENDNOTE BBB is a troll. I don't know any QF pilots who have his attitude. Ignore.....
What an irrelevant waste of time this thread is. After Aug 24, somewhere in the vicinity of 1000 guys are going to be surplus to QF's requirements.
Its a fair bet that out of necessity, some will apply to EK. Hell some might even get in.
The LWOP piece is a sideshow and a distraction. In the big scheme of things its meaningless to the numbers of "ex" QF guys that are going to apply.
Given the number of EK guys that have come back to Australia to work for the JQ and Tiger Z scales, I find it a bit rich that you are complaining about the reverse occurring.
If you feel so strongly about things, apply to IFALPA for a recruiting ban. See how far you get.
ENDNOTE BBB is a troll. I don't know any QF pilots who have his attitude. Ignore.....
Yeah nice one!!
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bolivia
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well I trust thats not going to be the case as EK will be missing out on some of the most experienced long haul pilots in the world.
And what's more, those QF pilots will miss out on flying with probably the most experienced long haul captains in the world
Bwahahahahahaha
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The Shire
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tankengine
QF was built by Cadets. We have been the best in industry with no major mishaps except for QF 1 which was the S/O's fault.
I know a few senior QF pilots that would move to EK should the terms be favourable.
I have heard we can negotiate our conditions.
I know a few senior QF pilots that would move to EK should the terms be favourable.
I have heard we can negotiate our conditions.