Ash Cloud Damage
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 1
From: on the farm west of Melbourne
Fixes the ATC shortage some what 
So would the Europe/USA flights be better sent to Brisbane, at least then they have a slim chance of getting to where they want to go. I know it would not suit everyone.
I was expeting a plethora of light twins picking up where the jets couldn't ala the "pilot dispute'.
We were overloaded then but it hasn't seemed to happen this time.
AA
So would the Europe/USA flights be better sent to Brisbane, at least then they have a slim chance of getting to where they want to go. I know it would not suit everyone.
I was expeting a plethora of light twins picking up where the jets couldn't ala the "pilot dispute'.
We were overloaded then but it hasn't seemed to happen this time.
AA
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,557
Likes: 95
From: moon
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 545
Likes: 0
From: Australia
Inconsistent??
Reported JQ resuming tas flts but QF still nil ops pending review later today.
Kind of mocks the "group" consistent safety line so well expressed at the Senate Inquiry. ??
Why fly under this week but not last week - $afety fir$t?
Kind of mocks the "group" consistent safety line so well expressed at the Senate Inquiry. ??
Why fly under this week but not last week - $afety fir$t?
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Questions now have to be asked WHY QF isn't flying. Many many international operators from highly respected safe Airlines are continuing to operate without Engine damage or risk to life and limb. CX, SQ, TG, NZ, EK, Royal Brunei, China Southern, Qatar, Air Mauritius, Garuda, Etihad, Air Asia etc etc. All these Airlines check their Aircraft for damage and so far.........nada.
There has now been considerable data collected by these operators flying for QF to now have a lot of confidence in the VAAC data.
In 3 days of no flying ( its about by 3 days total I guess ), CX alone has operated around 42 times below the ash cloud and that's just CX.
The VAAC ash cloud modeling is accurate and if anything conservative.
What is QF's real agenda here? Industrial leverage perhaps?
At the end of the day it doesn't bother me, CX will make more profit while QF rots on the vine and screws it's staff some more.
There has now been considerable data collected by these operators flying for QF to now have a lot of confidence in the VAAC data.
In 3 days of no flying ( its about by 3 days total I guess ), CX alone has operated around 42 times below the ash cloud and that's just CX.
The VAAC ash cloud modeling is accurate and if anything conservative.
What is QF's real agenda here? Industrial leverage perhaps?
At the end of the day it doesn't bother me, CX will make more profit while QF rots on the vine and screws it's staff some more.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 22nd June 2011 at 00:10.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
From: I like cheeseburgers
Nitpicker330 - you have no idea do you....
Your post has no credibility.....
How the hell did you include Garuda in the list of "highly respected safe airlines"
Your post has no credibility.....
Questions now have to be asked WHY QF isn't flying. Many many international operators from highly respected safe Airlines are continuing to operate without Engine damage or risk to life and limb. CX, SQ, TG, NZ, EK, Royal Brunei, China Southern, Qatar, Air Mauritius, Garuda, Etihad, Air Asia etc etc. All these Airlines check their Aircraft for damage and so far.........nada.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,167
Likes: 2
From: Australia
Yes I do have some idea actually. 30 years at the front end in 3 large international airlines gives me some perspective on the industry.
Including Garuda? Well maybe that might have been a little far!!
But you've missed the point, over these days of disruption probably in excess of 200 flights have safely operated below the areas of Ash without problem. So much data has been collected to give QF DJ JQ much more confidence in the info to enable operations to continue.
What's your cred?
Including Garuda? Well maybe that might have been a little far!!
But you've missed the point, over these days of disruption probably in excess of 200 flights have safely operated below the areas of Ash without problem. So much data has been collected to give QF DJ JQ much more confidence in the info to enable operations to continue.
What's your cred?
Last edited by nitpicker330; 22nd June 2011 at 01:06.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
From: The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
Did I hear correct that CASA got involved in it yesterday and grounded RPT flights out of Adelaide?
Could it be that the hard word has been put on CASA to be a bit more pro-active this time around.
Could it be that the hard word has been put on CASA to be a bit more pro-active this time around.
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 1
From: Enzed
What part of our Alphabet airspace do these pesty clouds come under anyway?
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 58
Likes: 0
From: Around
EFIS I dont think they grounded any RPT operators but with the CASA media release stating:
Two major RPT operators out of Adelaide may have interpreted it as : "If you fly and any of your aircraft sustain damage, we warned you and will have a field day with you."
It just seems funny that REX had no problems flying the week before but this week decided to pull the pin......Hindsight maybe.
On another note, i did hear a rumour one of the internationals that landed tuesday morning had signs of flight through ash.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority is working to ensure airlines are following the correct procedures when making decisions on flights while the volcanic ash clouds pass.
It just seems funny that REX had no problems flying the week before but this week decided to pull the pin......Hindsight maybe.
On another note, i did hear a rumour one of the internationals that landed tuesday morning had signs of flight through ash.
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 369
Likes: 0
CH 7 also had the Capt of BA9 (the 747 that lost all 4 engines due to ash) also said the Australian airlines are being far to cautious. He said the ash cloud they experienced was far more dense (due to them being far closer to the volcano) then what has occured in Australia.
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: In any 'Box'
Here's the article. QF you're in the wrong and always will be for as long as you have the current bunch of monkey's running the show 
Personally, I think it's too late and your business is all but over
When is the first A320 going to get painted Red and White???
Personally, I think it's too late and your business is all but over
When is the first A320 going to get painted Red and White???
I wanted to take the opportunity to thank all those in the Flight Operations teams who worked so hard last week to maintain safe operations across the Air New Zealand network despite the challenges presented by the ash cloud from Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle in Chile which drifted across Australia, the Tasman Sea and New Zealand. With ash re-entering Australian airspace today, it looks like they once again have a busy time ahead.
Coordinated by our Chief Pilot David Morgan and Bob Fletcher in Operations Support, the Flight Ops teams and Fleet Managers across each of our fleet types and regional airlines have been working together with the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority, Met Service and Air Traffic Control/Airways New Zealand to undertake a continuous risk assessment, determine the position of the ash cloud and adapt our flight paths and flight levels to ensure we could continue to operate in ash-free air throughout the week. Whenever we perceived a risk that our clear air requirements would be compromised we ceased services, but fortunately this happened on relatively few occasions.
While a number of other airlines in Australasia initially ceased services, as the week progressed all airlines, with the exception of Qantas and Jetstar, were operating on a similar basis as Air New Zealand.
Air New Zealand’s commitment to adapting its services and accepting the cost of a higher fuel burn to fly longer tracks at lower altitude was very well received by customers and increasingly the media began praising Air New Zealand’s approach as the week progressed.
Behind the scenes however we were constantly battling a series of malicious rumours that emerged from the Australian market and fed to media, suggesting that Air New Zealand had six aircraft in the hangar with ash damage, an aircraft grounded in Australia with ash damage and an aircraft requiring a nose cone replacement as a result of ash damage. All these stories were a complete fiction and I was left scratching my head as to where these false rumours were coming from.
Then at the end of the week, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce sent an email to the Qantas’ eight million frequent flyer customers, trying to justify the decision by Qantas to ground many of its aircraft while all other airlines were flying and implying that airlines like Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia were operating unsafely.
What Alan omitted to mention was that it wasn’t just Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia that had managed to adapt their operations to operate safely in clear air, but all airlines apart from Qantas and Jetstar had managed to achieve the vast majority of their operations. What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines’ services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace.
Given Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle continues to erupt, we will continue to see ash clouds drift across the region, like we are today, possibly for weeks and/or months to come. Air New Zealand will continue to adopt a similar approach to that we achieved last week, maintaining operations where we are confident we can do so safely without any heightened risk to our aircraft, crew and passengers.
It is also likely that we will see Qantas and Jetstar come under further customer and media pressure if they continue to adopt this strategy of grounding aircraft and it is possible that we will continue to see misinformation and false rumours emerge in the market.
Rob Fyfe
Coordinated by our Chief Pilot David Morgan and Bob Fletcher in Operations Support, the Flight Ops teams and Fleet Managers across each of our fleet types and regional airlines have been working together with the New Zealand Civil Aviation Authority, Met Service and Air Traffic Control/Airways New Zealand to undertake a continuous risk assessment, determine the position of the ash cloud and adapt our flight paths and flight levels to ensure we could continue to operate in ash-free air throughout the week. Whenever we perceived a risk that our clear air requirements would be compromised we ceased services, but fortunately this happened on relatively few occasions.
While a number of other airlines in Australasia initially ceased services, as the week progressed all airlines, with the exception of Qantas and Jetstar, were operating on a similar basis as Air New Zealand.
Air New Zealand’s commitment to adapting its services and accepting the cost of a higher fuel burn to fly longer tracks at lower altitude was very well received by customers and increasingly the media began praising Air New Zealand’s approach as the week progressed.
Behind the scenes however we were constantly battling a series of malicious rumours that emerged from the Australian market and fed to media, suggesting that Air New Zealand had six aircraft in the hangar with ash damage, an aircraft grounded in Australia with ash damage and an aircraft requiring a nose cone replacement as a result of ash damage. All these stories were a complete fiction and I was left scratching my head as to where these false rumours were coming from.
Then at the end of the week, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce sent an email to the Qantas’ eight million frequent flyer customers, trying to justify the decision by Qantas to ground many of its aircraft while all other airlines were flying and implying that airlines like Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia were operating unsafely.
What Alan omitted to mention was that it wasn’t just Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia that had managed to adapt their operations to operate safely in clear air, but all airlines apart from Qantas and Jetstar had managed to achieve the vast majority of their operations. What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines’ services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace.
Given Mt Puyehue Cordon Caulle continues to erupt, we will continue to see ash clouds drift across the region, like we are today, possibly for weeks and/or months to come. Air New Zealand will continue to adopt a similar approach to that we achieved last week, maintaining operations where we are confident we can do so safely without any heightened risk to our aircraft, crew and passengers.
It is also likely that we will see Qantas and Jetstar come under further customer and media pressure if they continue to adopt this strategy of grounding aircraft and it is possible that we will continue to see misinformation and false rumours emerge in the market.
Rob Fyfe