Is this a ridiculous over-reaction?
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Is this a ridiculous over-reaction?
Surely the density of the volcanic pumice matter is the key to the safety of flight. The doctrinal application of flight cancellations is stupid. I have yet to see any evidence of high-concentration airborne pumice clouds.
I think the en-masse cancellation of flights is a monstrous over-reaction.
Why are International airlines of global experience and significant reputation continuing to fly? Why is Virgin exercising discretion when the QANTAS group have applied a 'chicken licken' approach?
In the aftermath of this crisis of silliness - there had better be some good answers.
I think the en-masse cancellation of flights is a monstrous over-reaction.
Why are International airlines of global experience and significant reputation continuing to fly? Why is Virgin exercising discretion when the QANTAS group have applied a 'chicken licken' approach?
In the aftermath of this crisis of silliness - there had better be some good answers.
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QANTAS group have applied a 'chicken licken' approach?
To refresh your memory;
British Airways Flight 9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Don't patronise me.
I have worked for airlines on 4 continents. I have 35 years of global experience. I understand the effects of volcanic ash on aircraft.
My point is - this seems like a monstrous over-reaction.
Avoidance of volcanic plume is normally associated a cloud of sufficient pumice density to actually do some abrasive damage to the aircraft.
I see no evidence of such a thing.
I have worked for airlines on 4 continents. I have 35 years of global experience. I understand the effects of volcanic ash on aircraft.
My point is - this seems like a monstrous over-reaction.
Avoidance of volcanic plume is normally associated a cloud of sufficient pumice density to actually do some abrasive damage to the aircraft.
I see no evidence of such a thing.
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Don't patronise me.
I have worked for airlines on 4 continents. I have 35 years of global experience.
I have worked for airlines on 4 continents. I have 35 years of global experience.
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...any level....
Perhaps no aircraft should ever fly?
I remember about 10 years ago, when the dust storms in Beijing reduced visibility to less than 500m. Airbus was asked whether it was safe to continue. They said there was no limit. And, in my experience, there was no problem.
I hasten to add that sand and volcanic are quite different. So, I am not suggesting that flights into volcanic dust should be equated.
However - the density of volcanic plume is currently what? It seems to me that it is immeasurable. The sky is clear.
Where is common sense?
Perhaps no aircraft should ever fly?
I remember about 10 years ago, when the dust storms in Beijing reduced visibility to less than 500m. Airbus was asked whether it was safe to continue. They said there was no limit. And, in my experience, there was no problem.
I hasten to add that sand and volcanic are quite different. So, I am not suggesting that flights into volcanic dust should be equated.
However - the density of volcanic plume is currently what? It seems to me that it is immeasurable. The sky is clear.
Where is common sense?
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However - the density of volcanic plume is currently what? It seems to me that it is immeasurable. The sky is clear.
I remember about 6 years ago flying over PNG hearing a mayday from a biz jet doing survey work suffering a double engine failure. The subsequent report included the fact that the volcanic ash was invisible to the pilot but sufficient to cause the flame out. The volcano responsible was Manam.
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Can you answer my question? What is the density of the volcanic plume currently suffocating Tasmania & Victoria?
Can you answer my question? What is the density of volcanic ash that has the potential to effect the safety of flight? And secondly, how can such a measurement be unquestionably made?
In aviation, the safest option is to be risk averse!
In aviation, the safest option is to be risk averse!
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Volcanic education
HIALS,
if you had ever been near the Boeing training package and video you would never be asking these questions. Which international carrier did you work for????
if you had ever been near the Boeing training package and video you would never be asking these questions. Which international carrier did you work for????
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Thanks for your sensible response.
What is the acceptable amount of volcanic particulate matter that an aircraft can fly through?
I accept that there is a difference between day-flight and night-flight on this subject. We all know that radar isn't relevant.
My point is that it seems like the air is very clear. I appreciate that I can't see further than my window, but I can honestly see 50km, without any apparent airborne particulate matter. The sunset tonight was very normal (I remember when Mount Pinatubo exploded - the sunset was extraordinary). The moon is clear. The stars are twinkling. There is no visible obstruction.
I am genuinely mystified about how there can be such a degree of disturbance when there is no visible airborne particulate cloud. Abrasion damage is a result of time, speed and density of pumice. In the absence of a measurable density of particulate volcanic ash/dust - what is the problem?
What is the acceptable amount of volcanic particulate matter that an aircraft can fly through?
I accept that there is a difference between day-flight and night-flight on this subject. We all know that radar isn't relevant.
My point is that it seems like the air is very clear. I appreciate that I can't see further than my window, but I can honestly see 50km, without any apparent airborne particulate matter. The sunset tonight was very normal (I remember when Mount Pinatubo exploded - the sunset was extraordinary). The moon is clear. The stars are twinkling. There is no visible obstruction.
I am genuinely mystified about how there can be such a degree of disturbance when there is no visible airborne particulate cloud. Abrasion damage is a result of time, speed and density of pumice. In the absence of a measurable density of particulate volcanic ash/dust - what is the problem?
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And 'air' is invisible also, yet it has killed a lot of people through turbulence, wake turbulence, microburst and wind shear. Just becasue you cannot see it that does not mean it doesn't exist.
The ash particles cause damage even when they are microscopic and invisble to the naked eye. Volcanic dirt/dust also varies in its density and even texture depending on what part of the Earth the volcano is located. In other words, the same shoe doesn't fit all.
As The The said
The ash particles cause damage even when they are microscopic and invisble to the naked eye. Volcanic dirt/dust also varies in its density and even texture depending on what part of the Earth the volcano is located. In other words, the same shoe doesn't fit all.
As The The said
In aviation, the safest option is to be risk averse!
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Catseye - I have seen the volcanic encounter videos produced by both Boeing and Airbus. I have worked (as a Captain & TIRE) for airlines in Australia, Europe, the Middle East and Hong Kong. So, I don't want to seem ignorant.
However - the key point of those presentations was that the aircraft inadvertently encountered a volcanic plume of sufficient density to cause problems.
I am not advocating a cavalier or careless attitude to volcanic plumes, per se.
I am mystified about how the current reaction can be reconciled with a simple visual observation. There is no ash cloud to speak of. At least that I can see.
If someone can see it - then I would accept that I am wrong. The point of my post is to ask - has anyone seen it? Has any one of the pilots flying around seen any evidence?
However - the key point of those presentations was that the aircraft inadvertently encountered a volcanic plume of sufficient density to cause problems.
I am not advocating a cavalier or careless attitude to volcanic plumes, per se.
I am mystified about how the current reaction can be reconciled with a simple visual observation. There is no ash cloud to speak of. At least that I can see.
If someone can see it - then I would accept that I am wrong. The point of my post is to ask - has anyone seen it? Has any one of the pilots flying around seen any evidence?
I think it is fair to say that the airlines dont just decide to throw millions of dollars of revenue away because they have nothing better to do.
The VAAC has a number of ways of determining the location and density of the ash cloud - there are sufficient reports from aircraft stating that the ash cloud is there to suggest that the ash cloud is there.
The VAAC has a number of ways of determining the location and density of the ash cloud - there are sufficient reports from aircraft stating that the ash cloud is there to suggest that the ash cloud is there.
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Better cancel every flight to PNG then. The only thing we used to cancel up there were night flights into Tokua if there was anything forecast (everyday just about)
Perhaps some insight from the boys doing rabual everyday on the 100??
The fact that AirNZ is still operating (i would see them as experienced in this matter) gives me plenty of questions of Qantas. Also the fact that their current motto is F*&$K the punters and pilots. It is the only reason it begs the question.
On another note - flight from Adelaide tomorrow morning on international - whats the bet it goes ahead (just because im wishing it wont).
Perhaps some insight from the boys doing rabual everyday on the 100??
The fact that AirNZ is still operating (i would see them as experienced in this matter) gives me plenty of questions of Qantas. Also the fact that their current motto is F*&$K the punters and pilots. It is the only reason it begs the question.
On another note - flight from Adelaide tomorrow morning on international - whats the bet it goes ahead (just because im wishing it wont).