Jetstar crew "drunk with tiredness"
From the article:
Now this seriously offends me.
The previous "toughen up princesses" email demonstrates that the informal Jetstar corporate culture is that complaint will not be tolerated.
The real Jetstar culture is:
You dare to try and communicate that you are "too tired" and see what happens to you!
In response, Jetstar said: "Safety is our No.1 priority and we have an open culture of reporting issues. If a member of our crew is too fatigued then they should not operate the flight and we openly communicate this."
The previous "toughen up princesses" email demonstrates that the informal Jetstar corporate culture is that complaint will not be tolerated.
The real Jetstar culture is:
You dare to try and communicate that you are "too tired" and see what happens to you!
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Hope you have a good solicitor
oh and by the way cargo shipping is a totally different kettle of fish!!!
....and a large bank account
just thought that you, and others would also like to know:
The Jetstar cabin crew recruiters have just this week returned to Australia from Bangkok where they are recruiting 1200 Thai crew.
There as been no Australian Based International ground school for well over 3 years. The number of grounds schools that have gone through in Singapore is in the high 20's.
There have been so many Australian crews on transfer lists for years, most wanting to transfer to International only to be told that they plan to imminently recruit 1200 Thai.!!
The game plan is that Jetstar want the Australian crews that have got them this far to resign and then be replaced by off shore crews brought in to do the flying.
When the 'Sunrise Show' did the special last November on Jetstar to Hawaii., a special 'all Aussie crew' were used on the return flights to and from Hawaii - This is not the norm!
The 'generous allowances' Buchanan is talking of in the Telegraph article are the overnight allowance, paid in country of origin currency. All other allowances are built into the base wage. These are 'sweat shop' conditions and he is lying through his teeth.
They have made it very hard to get transport home from the Back of the Clock fying, because CC have to deal with people in Manilla who are blissfully unaware that they have to supply anyone requesting it with transport home in these circumstances.
BB states Jetstar is an Australian based company - C'mon Bruce, make your mind up one way or the other. He stood up in a 'road show' and stated after being ask about off shore recruitment. "we never said we were an Australian company".
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The Kelpie
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And foreign air hostesses are working for budget airline Jetstar for half the pay of Australian workers to deliver cut-priced flights.
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Welcome to market economics the hard way, lads.
Australian aviation is now learning what the rest of the world has known for some time. You can all say goodbye to the Qantas of old, it's a dinosaur anyway and could never survive in that form. Like it or not, Jetstar and it's ilk are the way of the future, and no amount of breast-beating will change that.
You'd better all learn to adapt...
BTW not suggesting that this is a good thing, it isn't, but it is the new reality.
Australian aviation is now learning what the rest of the world has known for some time. You can all say goodbye to the Qantas of old, it's a dinosaur anyway and could never survive in that form. Like it or not, Jetstar and it's ilk are the way of the future, and no amount of breast-beating will change that.
You'd better all learn to adapt...
BTW not suggesting that this is a good thing, it isn't, but it is the new reality.
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This is not unique to aviation, a lot of the costal shipping in Australia is done with foreign craft and crews between "domestic" ports.
I don't see why the government can't open it's eyes - they won't allow more than 49% ownership by foreign investments but we can operate with 100% foreign crew.
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Would love to know when maximum duty became standard - minimum rest became standard - and exemptions and extensions became worlds best practice...
Productivity is important I agree - but not at the detriment of safety.
Productivity is important I agree - but not at the detriment of safety.
Not sure if it has been mentioned here or elsewhere, but here is the J* response to the Herald Sun. Spot the spin anyone? 
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2...s-response.pdf
http://resources.news.com.au/files/2...s-response.pdf
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A slippery response Simon.
The reason you do not want to re answer the questions is because, I would suggest, that they are asked in a slightly different manner and to answer truthfully would drop your boss in it!!
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The kelpie
The reason you do not want to re answer the questions is because, I would suggest, that they are asked in a slightly different manner and to answer truthfully would drop your boss in it!!
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The kelpie
Grandpa Aerotart
A thread about, allegedly, fatigue and you spend 2 pages railing against Asian FA pay?
I will give you a hint - these girls are being VERY well paid by the standards of their respective countries. Plus some will be hawking the fork down route and earning a shedload more cash.and some will marry pilots and end up in Australia. And before anyone shouts me down for that last statement its merely a fact. Happens in my airline, happens in CX, EK, Thai etc etc etc.
I pay my Filipino live in maid < 1/3rd what these girls are paid and when she sends 80% of her pay home each month THAT proportion equates to the same pay as a Provincial Court Judge. In just the first several years she worked for me she bought some acres, built a house and stocked it with family and farm animals - all cash. Her biggest fear in life is me leaving and she losing her job.
Wouldn't we love to be earning enough disposable income to pay cash for some acres and build a house after working just 3 years?
They're being paid about the same as FAs the length and breadth of asia..in many cases significantly more. We have Thai, Burmese, Indonesian, Malay, Filipino, Vietnamese girls working the cabin on my airline for probably slightly less money and they are VERY happy with their lot. Great bunch of girls.
You have plenty to be concerned about and PLENTY to be fighting for at JQ - this aint it.
Like JQ if I, and 10s of 1000s of expats/middle and upper class asians, asia wide, were forced to pay what a live in maid cost in Australia, Riz and millions of her sisters would be unemployed instantly. 100s of millions of Pesos would no longer flow back into the PI. 10s of millions of extended family would be impoverished.
Same with the Thai etc girls working JQ asia cabins. They're not 'slaves'. No one press ganged them into a JQA airbus. The competition for those jobs would have been/is FIERCE.
If this was imposed by govt fiat the first people protesting would be the maids and FAs...at their RIGHT to sell their labour at a rate THEY consider fair being taken away.
The carryon on this thread shows you as nothing but ignorant of the world outside Australia...not a good look.
I will give you a hint - these girls are being VERY well paid by the standards of their respective countries. Plus some will be hawking the fork down route and earning a shedload more cash.and some will marry pilots and end up in Australia. And before anyone shouts me down for that last statement its merely a fact. Happens in my airline, happens in CX, EK, Thai etc etc etc.
I pay my Filipino live in maid < 1/3rd what these girls are paid and when she sends 80% of her pay home each month THAT proportion equates to the same pay as a Provincial Court Judge. In just the first several years she worked for me she bought some acres, built a house and stocked it with family and farm animals - all cash. Her biggest fear in life is me leaving and she losing her job.
Wouldn't we love to be earning enough disposable income to pay cash for some acres and build a house after working just 3 years?
They're being paid about the same as FAs the length and breadth of asia..in many cases significantly more. We have Thai, Burmese, Indonesian, Malay, Filipino, Vietnamese girls working the cabin on my airline for probably slightly less money and they are VERY happy with their lot. Great bunch of girls.
You have plenty to be concerned about and PLENTY to be fighting for at JQ - this aint it.
Like JQ if I, and 10s of 1000s of expats/middle and upper class asians, asia wide, were forced to pay what a live in maid cost in Australia, Riz and millions of her sisters would be unemployed instantly. 100s of millions of Pesos would no longer flow back into the PI. 10s of millions of extended family would be impoverished.
Same with the Thai etc girls working JQ asia cabins. They're not 'slaves'. No one press ganged them into a JQA airbus. The competition for those jobs would have been/is FIERCE.
If this was imposed by govt fiat the first people protesting would be the maids and FAs...at their RIGHT to sell their labour at a rate THEY consider fair being taken away.
The carryon on this thread shows you as nothing but ignorant of the world outside Australia...not a good look.
Last edited by Chimbu chuckles; 12th Jun 2011 at 03:03.
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Chimbu is right on the money. But then, Australian aviation has always lived in splendid isolation from the rest of the world... NZ is no better.
Precisely.
The carryon on this thread shows you as nothing but ignorant of the world outside Australia...not a good look.
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Outsource Management
I'm sure you could get an Asian CEO to run Qantas for about $100k/pa.
They would do a damn sight better job.
Does fatigue legislation apply to offshore employees?
They would do a damn sight better job.
Does fatigue legislation apply to offshore employees?
Grandpa Aerotart
I'm sure you could get an Asian CEO to run Qantas for about $100k/pa.
They would do a damn sight better job.
They would do a damn sight better job.
Does fatigue legislation apply to offshore employees?
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How did a report on fatigue end up dealing with pay grades in OZ and Asia?
I have stood back and read a lot of posts on this site for quite a while but have not opened my mouth.
My question is how is pay related to safety?
All FA are trained by the same people to the same standards all this is dictated by the regulators, manufacturers and the operators!
They are all doing the same job and have the same experience. So far I have not heard of anyone saying they are less qualified or less trained just paid less.
I hate what is happening in OZ but what can I do?
I have flown on Jstar with a foriegn crew and an OZ crew I can see no difference?
When someone complains about fatigue and then you mention pay you get everyone offside.
I have stood back and read a lot of posts on this site for quite a while but have not opened my mouth.
My question is how is pay related to safety?
All FA are trained by the same people to the same standards all this is dictated by the regulators, manufacturers and the operators!
They are all doing the same job and have the same experience. So far I have not heard of anyone saying they are less qualified or less trained just paid less.
I hate what is happening in OZ but what can I do?
I have flown on Jstar with a foriegn crew and an OZ crew I can see no difference?
When someone complains about fatigue and then you mention pay you get everyone offside.
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Simon is leaving?
Maybe he is pissed at being passed over by worthless for the top at QANTAS!!
Simon, you did not get the job because you have a pair of balls and you are a rotten liar!
We can all see through your spin.
Maybe he is pissed at being passed over by worthless for the top at QANTAS!!
Simon, you did not get the job because you have a pair of balls and you are a rotten liar!
We can all see through your spin.
Just to clear up a few misconceptions about coastal shipping
Coasting Trade Licences & Permits
Licences
Under the Act vessels may be licensed to participate in Australia's coastal trade irrespective of flag and crew nationality. Licenses are issued on condition that:
the vessel's crew are paid Australian wages while the vessel trades on the Australian coast; and
the vessel's crew have access to the vessel's library facilities
Under the Act vessels may be licensed to participate in Australia's coastal trade irrespective of flag and crew nationality. Licenses are issued on condition that:
the vessel's crew are paid Australian wages while the vessel trades on the Australian coast; and
the vessel's crew have access to the vessel's library facilities
For the benefit of HMCClown and anyone else who doesn't understand the trick Jetstar is pulling:
Double bind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...And what Jetstar has done is say:
But here is what they are really saying - a classic double bind, from the Jetstar email:
Toughen up princesses!
You aren’t fatigued, you are tired and can’t be bothered going to work.
The hardest thing about doing [flight] JQ117 backed up by the BOC [back of the clock, e.g. from midnight to 6 a.m.] is the time away from the family. There is ample time for rest if you utilize it correctly. I understand this is easy to say but sacrifices have to be made. We are all shift workers and that doesn’t always fit in with normal life. If you became an airline pilot thinking that you will be home every night and not have to fly through the night, then that is pretty naive. Might be time to go instructing. (threat - do you really want to work here?)
Now the powers to that be could have used this as a perfect opportunity to down-size the base, or even close it. (- another threat) But it shows that JQ is committed to the base and want it to work. Having said that, if I was Bruce and a bunch of pilots, who have taken a lot of days off, only fly 60-75 hours a month, started to call in ‘fatigued’ and didn’t want those days to come out of personal leave days, then I would start to look at other options. If flights started to be cancelled, then I would not hesitate in closing the base (-repeated threat) and have all flying done from MEL. Be careful of what you wish for!
.........
....If you honestly believe you can’t operate safely, not just because you feel terrible, then call in UFD [unfit for duty]. But it is UNFIT FOR DUTY! I can’t see how it can not be taken from your personal leave. (- threat, your leave will be docked if you call in fatigued.)
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...ml#post6355713
I think I know the way this ends. A landing accident due to fatigue, runway excursion, followed by a fire. Those pretty little Asian girls won't be able to cope with the evacuation and a lot of people will die.
A double bind is an emotionally distressing dilemma in communication in which an individual (or group) receives two or more conflicting messages, in which one message negates the other. This creates a situation in which a successful response to one message results in a failed response to the other (and vice versa), so that the person will be automatically wrong regardless of response. The double bind occurs when the person cannot confront the inherent dilemma, and therefore cannot resolve it or opt out of the situation.
Double bind - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
...And what Jetstar has done is say:
If a member of our crew is too fatigued then they should not operate the flight and we openly communicate this."
Toughen up princesses!
You aren’t fatigued, you are tired and can’t be bothered going to work.
The hardest thing about doing [flight] JQ117 backed up by the BOC [back of the clock, e.g. from midnight to 6 a.m.] is the time away from the family. There is ample time for rest if you utilize it correctly. I understand this is easy to say but sacrifices have to be made. We are all shift workers and that doesn’t always fit in with normal life. If you became an airline pilot thinking that you will be home every night and not have to fly through the night, then that is pretty naive. Might be time to go instructing. (threat - do you really want to work here?)
Now the powers to that be could have used this as a perfect opportunity to down-size the base, or even close it. (- another threat) But it shows that JQ is committed to the base and want it to work. Having said that, if I was Bruce and a bunch of pilots, who have taken a lot of days off, only fly 60-75 hours a month, started to call in ‘fatigued’ and didn’t want those days to come out of personal leave days, then I would start to look at other options. If flights started to be cancelled, then I would not hesitate in closing the base (-repeated threat) and have all flying done from MEL. Be careful of what you wish for!
.........
....If you honestly believe you can’t operate safely, not just because you feel terrible, then call in UFD [unfit for duty]. But it is UNFIT FOR DUTY! I can’t see how it can not be taken from your personal leave. (- threat, your leave will be docked if you call in fatigued.)
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting...ml#post6355713
I think I know the way this ends. A landing accident due to fatigue, runway excursion, followed by a fire. Those pretty little Asian girls won't be able to cope with the evacuation and a lot of people will die.
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Simon, you did not get the job because you have a pair of balls and you are a rotten liar!
