Up to 400 QF Cabin Crew to be axed - pilots next?
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Dark Knight - OK so now Alan the outsourcing king can blame the Unions and Julia ....
........
...but lets not sidetrack the thread - this is all about deliberate and planned actions that started with Q seeking its capacity approvals to be shared with JQ, then with the JQ offshore franchises.
The scrutiny has to be placed on the CEO who yesterday morning spruiked the rise in pax numbers and yields and then went on to tell ABC Online this morning that he intends to slash 3% off QF international capacity and more off domestic. He must be the only CEO in the world that wants to cut capacity growth!
Just to be balanced, the Cabin Crew Union has not given us one single ounce of support in our push against offshoring and the 200 hour cadet schemes - they didn't front the Senate Inquiry and just let a Jetstar CC speak up, they never backed the Engineers, they let RR & Q get away with knowingly endangering the lives of their members - not a word from them!
Most of all, they said nothing yesterday except for the quoted 'no comment but VR is a good thing because it's voluntary' (WTF! sounds like the old guard at the union are first in line for the pay out)
Start listing the cost of the stuff ups during the past 4 years and add up the losses - especially those designed to be JQ 'friendly' like the dumb decision to use JQ style 3 abreast seating in J on the 332's - the major breakdowns due nil parts, the pushing of the schedule to move QF traffic onto JQ - plus the bonuses - Dixon's & Joyce's especially at a time when "things are tough, oil is high and the downturn is biting".....to say nothing of the fines and prosecutions!
That looming $2 share price should trigger a resignation - sooner the better.
The CC's being axed again confirms that the goal is to slash Australian jobs and give the flying to JQ Franchises. - Sad that the airline is losing the experienced end of the payroll and replacing it with Y gens from NZ & Asia or B scale on the 380 that I'm told only get $36K gross. No doubt we're next.
This surely must be the only airline that can crash and burn without even leaving the ground.
AT
........
...but lets not sidetrack the thread - this is all about deliberate and planned actions that started with Q seeking its capacity approvals to be shared with JQ, then with the JQ offshore franchises.
The scrutiny has to be placed on the CEO who yesterday morning spruiked the rise in pax numbers and yields and then went on to tell ABC Online this morning that he intends to slash 3% off QF international capacity and more off domestic. He must be the only CEO in the world that wants to cut capacity growth!
Just to be balanced, the Cabin Crew Union has not given us one single ounce of support in our push against offshoring and the 200 hour cadet schemes - they didn't front the Senate Inquiry and just let a Jetstar CC speak up, they never backed the Engineers, they let RR & Q get away with knowingly endangering the lives of their members - not a word from them!
Most of all, they said nothing yesterday except for the quoted 'no comment but VR is a good thing because it's voluntary' (WTF! sounds like the old guard at the union are first in line for the pay out)
Start listing the cost of the stuff ups during the past 4 years and add up the losses - especially those designed to be JQ 'friendly' like the dumb decision to use JQ style 3 abreast seating in J on the 332's - the major breakdowns due nil parts, the pushing of the schedule to move QF traffic onto JQ - plus the bonuses - Dixon's & Joyce's especially at a time when "things are tough, oil is high and the downturn is biting".....to say nothing of the fines and prosecutions!
That looming $2 share price should trigger a resignation - sooner the better.
The CC's being axed again confirms that the goal is to slash Australian jobs and give the flying to JQ Franchises. - Sad that the airline is losing the experienced end of the payroll and replacing it with Y gens from NZ & Asia or B scale on the 380 that I'm told only get $36K gross. No doubt we're next.
This surely must be the only airline that can crash and burn without even leaving the ground.
AT
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"Ca$h and Burn" more like. If the VRs do become CRs, wasn't there a "last on, first off" clause in the EBA, or will the QCCAs and QCCDs be exempt, as this current offer is aimed squarely at QAL? I ask, as this clause was designed to make CRs less attractive to management. Making QCCAs and QCCDs redundant would be less of a cost reduction than making the same number of QALs redundant.
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Just to be balanced, the Cabin Crew Union has not given us one single ounce of support in our push against offshoring and the 200 hour cadet schemes - they didn't front the Senate Inquiry and just let a Jetstar CC speak up, they never backed the Engineers, they let RR & Q get away with knowingly endangering the lives of their members - not a word from them!
Most of all, they said nothing yesterday except for the quoted 'no comment but VR is a good thing because it's voluntary' (WTF! sounds like the old guard at the union are first in line for the pay out)AT
Most of all, they said nothing yesterday except for the quoted 'no comment but VR is a good thing because it's voluntary' (WTF! sounds like the old guard at the union are first in line for the pay out)AT
Please refresh my memory as I only recall pilots saying it will never happen to us.
I also only ever recall the cries of joy when the smell of fresh young meat came wafting into the flight deck.
I think you will find the international FAAA are totally opposed to the offshoring of pilots and engineering.
We unfortuately have to take a different and more realistic tack when challenging the company as we can be replaced practically overnight, as opposed to pilots and engineeers that have years of training, skill and experience.
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.. er .. q ..
The FAAA EBA was negotiated to allow those bases ... at the time I was surprised that the CC had agreed to this and one of Sir Humphrey's well known phrases kept popping into my head (It's the thin edge of the wedge minister) .. but .. the FAAA had agreed to it ....
N
The FAAA EBA was negotiated to allow those bases ... at the time I was surprised that the CC had agreed to this and one of Sir Humphrey's well known phrases kept popping into my head (It's the thin edge of the wedge minister) .. but .. the FAAA had agreed to it ....
N
Is it just the cynic in me or is Joyce deliberately doing this, so he can say "look at the greedy pilots and engineers wanting 30% pay increases while we need to sack 400 flight attendants"
What's the bet 400 will be hired on lesser contracts!
P.S isn't the legal requirement that if another staff member is rehired to do the same job within 2 years, the previous employee is to be offered the job first on the original conditions?
What's the bet 400 will be hired on lesser contracts!
P.S isn't the legal requirement that if another staff member is rehired to do the same job within 2 years, the previous employee is to be offered the job first on the original conditions?
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Thats right Goblin.
BUT....this is Qantas. They don't give a flying FCKU what anyone thinks, because in 2 years the masses would have forgotten.
As others have said more succinctly ....this is nothing but a grubby exercise in yield management (Human). Its got zip to do with fuel prices, debt, global economies(PIGS)........but all to do with painting Orange Graffiti all over every Red Rat in the fleet.
Its morally wrong.
Its a fundamentally corrupt business strategy
AND the most galling thing about it -is that the people making these decisions think that no one will notice OR care!
Well guess what. The general public, shareholders and staff have seen through this total sham long ago.
This and many other appalling decisions made over the last 8-10 years is going to reap a result that will make the collapse of Ansett look like a Sunday picnic.
(Apologies to my AN friends)
Spirit of Australia .....my ARSE!
BUT....this is Qantas. They don't give a flying FCKU what anyone thinks, because in 2 years the masses would have forgotten.
As others have said more succinctly ....this is nothing but a grubby exercise in yield management (Human). Its got zip to do with fuel prices, debt, global economies(PIGS)........but all to do with painting Orange Graffiti all over every Red Rat in the fleet.
Its morally wrong.
Its a fundamentally corrupt business strategy
AND the most galling thing about it -is that the people making these decisions think that no one will notice OR care!
Well guess what. The general public, shareholders and staff have seen through this total sham long ago.
This and many other appalling decisions made over the last 8-10 years is going to reap a result that will make the collapse of Ansett look like a Sunday picnic.
(Apologies to my AN friends)
Spirit of Australia .....my ARSE!
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q forum - it's a fair enough comment and yes Pilots could have been a bit more universal in our focus in previous eras - but as stated by other posters it was the CC Union who actually endorsed the OS Bases and I'm reliably told have even been happy to let those Australian CC in LHR not to be counted in their OS BAse Agreement which is a percentage of the Australian crew.
Also don't forget that the CC Union did not bother to front the Senate Inquiry and it is has not said a single word against the JQ Singapore Base that is taking Australian CC work today. Let's hope that changes in the future and also lets hope we all score a few tries together.
I do think you are selling yourself short - the likes of Joyce might see you as glorified muffin sellers but this is where the CC Union needs to lift its game - reality is that an a/c cannot close the door and call for push back unless the CC are onboard doing their safety thing. If the CC worked to rule I rekon it would cause chaos.
I also think it was a real shame that Joyce thanked everyone post 32 except the CC. - I have sat in the cabin and have seen the demo video with Travolta while paxing which is an embarassment to you and me -thank goodness he's not wearing a Q badge on his uniform.
The more we can work together to ditch the Joyce circus and the array of Ansett/Air NZ/JQ has-been Management refugees that continue to make the same mistakes and stuff their wallets while screwing us - the better we all will be.
No doubt we're next! - although at $2.03 (a record low) AJ's credability line at $2 edges closer....wonder what they'll stuff up tomorrow?? (prob my roster for starters)
AT
Also don't forget that the CC Union did not bother to front the Senate Inquiry and it is has not said a single word against the JQ Singapore Base that is taking Australian CC work today. Let's hope that changes in the future and also lets hope we all score a few tries together.
I do think you are selling yourself short - the likes of Joyce might see you as glorified muffin sellers but this is where the CC Union needs to lift its game - reality is that an a/c cannot close the door and call for push back unless the CC are onboard doing their safety thing. If the CC worked to rule I rekon it would cause chaos.
I also think it was a real shame that Joyce thanked everyone post 32 except the CC. - I have sat in the cabin and have seen the demo video with Travolta while paxing which is an embarassment to you and me -thank goodness he's not wearing a Q badge on his uniform.
The more we can work together to ditch the Joyce circus and the array of Ansett/Air NZ/JQ has-been Management refugees that continue to make the same mistakes and stuff their wallets while screwing us - the better we all will be.
No doubt we're next! - although at $2.03 (a record low) AJ's credability line at $2 edges closer....wonder what they'll stuff up tomorrow?? (prob my roster for starters)
AT
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And on that point - why doesn't Travolta have a QF badge on?
Is it a copyright thing or that he is not employed by QF as a pilot?
It looks wrong and they chose the wrong person to do it, what was wrong with the Captain they used, or what about the QF32 Captain?
People would listen more then, instead of listening to an actor who gets paid to say what's on the script.
Is it a copyright thing or that he is not employed by QF as a pilot?
It looks wrong and they chose the wrong person to do it, what was wrong with the Captain they used, or what about the QF32 Captain?
People would listen more then, instead of listening to an actor who gets paid to say what's on the script.
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Hey there's then answer.
Play the Rat at their own game. Everyone who holds shares sells out to drive the price below $2 and call the Board's bluff.
Might be dodgy but no different to what they are doing.
Now all we need to do is find someone who owns shares and at one time trusted this lot.
Certainly not me.
Play the Rat at their own game. Everyone who holds shares sells out to drive the price below $2 and call the Board's bluff.
Might be dodgy but no different to what they are doing.
Now all we need to do is find someone who owns shares and at one time trusted this lot.
Certainly not me.
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Cabin Crew Despair
We sit between an employer who holds us in contempt and an association who has sold out.
Ring the union for advice or with a problem and you would swear you had misdialled and rung a department of Qantas Airlines.
The last EBA resulted in the birth of QCCA where employees are on around $36k a year.Don't go to a bank looking for a loan with remuneration like that.They will laugh at you.
For me I have had enough from both sides.My employer sees me as a liability.My experience counts for nothing.Awards for service excellence are hollow.They are more interested in where my name badge is in relation to the point of my lapel than they are in growing and improving the business
Qantas is not customer focused at all.The stories of indifference I hear from pax regarding our Customer Care Department only magnify my disappointment with my employer.
This VR is both a surprise and a delight.No one really thought that would ever be another VR.I am delighted because I am being paid by these contemptible A holes to get away from them.I have worked for two Qantas'.The first was centred on excellence and embraced its employees as family and accorded them respect.
The second Qantas is the most toxic vile workplace imaginable.It is run by the most repugnant dysfunctional children I have ever encountered .They can do and say to me what they like.If I dare speak up and defend myself I am targeted.This is what being Jewish in pre war Germany must have been like.The fact that this occurs in an egalitarian country like Australia makes it all the more apalling.
My early years with Qantas were wonderful.The last 10 years have been sheer hell.
I feel sorry for those that stay behind
Ring the union for advice or with a problem and you would swear you had misdialled and rung a department of Qantas Airlines.
The last EBA resulted in the birth of QCCA where employees are on around $36k a year.Don't go to a bank looking for a loan with remuneration like that.They will laugh at you.
For me I have had enough from both sides.My employer sees me as a liability.My experience counts for nothing.Awards for service excellence are hollow.They are more interested in where my name badge is in relation to the point of my lapel than they are in growing and improving the business
Qantas is not customer focused at all.The stories of indifference I hear from pax regarding our Customer Care Department only magnify my disappointment with my employer.
This VR is both a surprise and a delight.No one really thought that would ever be another VR.I am delighted because I am being paid by these contemptible A holes to get away from them.I have worked for two Qantas'.The first was centred on excellence and embraced its employees as family and accorded them respect.
The second Qantas is the most toxic vile workplace imaginable.It is run by the most repugnant dysfunctional children I have ever encountered .They can do and say to me what they like.If I dare speak up and defend myself I am targeted.This is what being Jewish in pre war Germany must have been like.The fact that this occurs in an egalitarian country like Australia makes it all the more apalling.
My early years with Qantas were wonderful.The last 10 years have been sheer hell.
I feel sorry for those that stay behind
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The initial off shore bases were set up without consultation and based on an EBA clause that was not written with that intention.
The EBA should have been more watertight but the damage was done.
A limit was then established with a max of 290 OS based crew.
Then another loophole allowed the setup of LHR.
The EBA was previously modified to have the limit expire at the end of the EBA at the time.
It seemed an innocuous change at the time, but it enabled them to set up the base again without consultaton.
So after the horse had bolted we had to up the base cap to allow for it, which then became 490.
Legally it is no longer enforceable to have an OS base cap in an EBA, although we still have an agreement with the company of no more than 25% which as far as I am aware is still being honoured.
So to summarize, the longhaul union in the past was outsmarted by management, but they never welcomed offshore bases until they already existed, and fought as hard as possible within the legal framework to keep them limited.
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Ancient History
Arguing the point over what has been done is both fruitless and pointless.You cant unscramble an egg.
This crapp was created by an incompetent association led by amateurs.The current union secretary is a pompous,arrogant,rude little pratt who is held in as much contempt as management is.The guy in charge of the planning and scheduling is worse.He has done secret deals with the company allowing thnem to manipulate our bid system.
When the VR money is in the bank I and others are going to pursue this little ****e through the courts
This crapp was created by an incompetent association led by amateurs.The current union secretary is a pompous,arrogant,rude little pratt who is held in as much contempt as management is.The guy in charge of the planning and scheduling is worse.He has done secret deals with the company allowing thnem to manipulate our bid system.
When the VR money is in the bank I and others are going to pursue this little ****e through the courts
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astroboy - can you confirm this for me? - ie links/evidence etc., post here or PM me if you prefer.
Such a move while axing Australian CC jobs is not only disgusting it also will in the case of the MAM's (they're still domestic only?) would I imiagine see a major brawl between the two CC Unions over the numbers.
Such a move, esp with LHR only serves to highlight Joyce's blatant lies and union bashing spin.
Thnx
AT
Such a move while axing Australian CC jobs is not only disgusting it also will in the case of the MAM's (they're still domestic only?) would I imiagine see a major brawl between the two CC Unions over the numbers.
Such a move, esp with LHR only serves to highlight Joyce's blatant lies and union bashing spin.
Thnx
AT
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LAX Recruitment
Lets not forget their recruitment of CC in LAX.
Load factors are great everywhere.There are CC shortages everywhere.This VR is about removing the last vestiges of the old Qantas.
Every time someone from the old Qantas leaves they can be replaced by someone who earns less and will be not be around long enough to secure airline benefits.Less superannuation is also paid.They are developing a workforce that will rotate every 5 years.Loyalty will disappear and service standards will plummet.
As mentioned the Australian public should demand open skies and Qantas should lose its protected national carrier status
Load factors are great everywhere.There are CC shortages everywhere.This VR is about removing the last vestiges of the old Qantas.
Every time someone from the old Qantas leaves they can be replaced by someone who earns less and will be not be around long enough to secure airline benefits.Less superannuation is also paid.They are developing a workforce that will rotate every 5 years.Loyalty will disappear and service standards will plummet.
As mentioned the Australian public should demand open skies and Qantas should lose its protected national carrier status
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QF UK are looking to hire 800 LHR based crew according to cabincrew.com
However, people who have b een invited to an interview over there have now been told the recruitment is on hold at this time.
Disgusting Qantas can get away with making Australian's redundant (voluntary or not) and then hire UK residents.
However, people who have b een invited to an interview over there have now been told the recruitment is on hold at this time.
Disgusting Qantas can get away with making Australian's redundant (voluntary or not) and then hire UK residents.
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Lets not forget that the current QAL crew who voted YES on the EBA on 2007 to get $3000 firmly in their back pocket are the same crew whinging about the QCCA crew.
You voted for it. Remember that. $3000!!!!!
In effect you voted for you ultimate demise.
Time to retire guys.
You hate QANTAS and everything and everyone associated with the company so line your pockets like the board does and retire.
WAIT, no let me guess.... The economic crisis means you cant take the package this time...Superannuation has been affected right.
You constantly complain about the company and board driving the company and the once GREAT Qantas into the ground.
Take a look in the mirror kids.
You are no different to the shareholders that "line their pockets" with Qantas money.
Your pockets are just as lined.
Enjoy retirement and your staff travel for life guys.
You voted for it. Remember that. $3000!!!!!
In effect you voted for you ultimate demise.
Time to retire guys.
You hate QANTAS and everything and everyone associated with the company so line your pockets like the board does and retire.
WAIT, no let me guess.... The economic crisis means you cant take the package this time...Superannuation has been affected right.
You constantly complain about the company and board driving the company and the once GREAT Qantas into the ground.
Take a look in the mirror kids.
You are no different to the shareholders that "line their pockets" with Qantas money.
Your pockets are just as lined.
Enjoy retirement and your staff travel for life guys.
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surfside - somewherewhat:
don't doubt you - but pls post the evidence
the only way the issue can be addressed is through balanced debate - something that Q. Joyce and Olivia are doing their best to avoid.
there's power in the copy and paste
At
don't doubt you - but pls post the evidence
the only way the issue can be addressed is through balanced debate - something that Q. Joyce and Olivia are doing their best to avoid.
there's power in the copy and paste
At