Qantas to start another airline offshore?
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Asian Labour Costs
This reference to labour was a generalization.It was not specific to pilots
While pilots are central to running an airline their actual cost is comparatively small when viewed as part of the total
The cost of other employees is definitely cheaper in asia.The Qantas CC Thai base was testament to that.
I am not happy about what Qantas is doing.It is both amoral and immoral.
Neville your issue is definitely not with me dude.I'm on your side.
The Qantas management thinking is that if you knock over the pilots all other unions will cave in.Like it or not.Pilots fail,we all fail
While pilots are central to running an airline their actual cost is comparatively small when viewed as part of the total
The cost of other employees is definitely cheaper in asia.The Qantas CC Thai base was testament to that.
I am not happy about what Qantas is doing.It is both amoral and immoral.
Neville your issue is definitely not with me dude.I'm on your side.
The Qantas management thinking is that if you knock over the pilots all other unions will cave in.Like it or not.Pilots fail,we all fail
Join Date: May 2011
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Share Price
There are some large funds who have sizable shareholdings in Qantas.
What do they intend to do to protect their investments?
With the share price of QAN hovering perilously just above the float price of
$1.90 for private investors and $2.00 for institutional investors back in 95.
And with the recent release of broker upgrades with buy prices up to $2.99 or there abouts.
I would say that this is the opportunity for the big boys to have started reducing their exposure to QAN and limit their holdings. If that $2.00 price is breached that may be the final psychological barrier holding this up.
Its balanced on a knife edge and if USA tanks again then look out below !! Will be interesting to see a top 20 shareholders registry if $2.00 is hit.
Check out the chart since QAN first floated 16 years ago. Its almost back to its listing price
What do they intend to do to protect their investments?
With the share price of QAN hovering perilously just above the float price of
$1.90 for private investors and $2.00 for institutional investors back in 95.
And with the recent release of broker upgrades with buy prices up to $2.99 or there abouts.
I would say that this is the opportunity for the big boys to have started reducing their exposure to QAN and limit their holdings. If that $2.00 price is breached that may be the final psychological barrier holding this up.
Its balanced on a knife edge and if USA tanks again then look out below !! Will be interesting to see a top 20 shareholders registry if $2.00 is hit.
Check out the chart since QAN first floated 16 years ago. Its almost back to its listing price
Join Date: Sep 2007
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So what will it be!!
· Shareholders backing management in the belief that the off shoring &outsourcing strategy now unfolding will pay off handsomely,
· Buyers of distressed assets picking over the remnants of Qantas after management and unions go to war.
In both of the above circumstances, employees will have little influence over what happens and can probably look forward to participating in a race to the bottom.
Or will a third alternative emerge?
In collaboration with others, far sighted employees could make themselves relevant to creating, say, a consolidated international airline, demerging Qantas & Jet star, etc, etc. Irrespective, staff will have to get a seat at the table before their interests will figure in whatever is set to transpire and getting a seat at the table means taking ownership of what is unfolding.
Those who prosper learn from history. To better understand what’s at stake and what can be done, read up on what happened at Alitalia, Swiss Air, Ansett and United.
One thing is for certain, for things to end well, things must change.
· Shareholders backing management in the belief that the off shoring &outsourcing strategy now unfolding will pay off handsomely,
· Buyers of distressed assets picking over the remnants of Qantas after management and unions go to war.
In both of the above circumstances, employees will have little influence over what happens and can probably look forward to participating in a race to the bottom.
Or will a third alternative emerge?
In collaboration with others, far sighted employees could make themselves relevant to creating, say, a consolidated international airline, demerging Qantas & Jet star, etc, etc. Irrespective, staff will have to get a seat at the table before their interests will figure in whatever is set to transpire and getting a seat at the table means taking ownership of what is unfolding.
Those who prosper learn from history. To better understand what’s at stake and what can be done, read up on what happened at Alitalia, Swiss Air, Ansett and United.
One thing is for certain, for things to end well, things must change.
Join Date: May 2009
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Struggling's Suggestion
Excellent suggestion.
It was first made when the company floated.Unfortunately nobody was interested.A particular Captain tried to gather some enthusiasm.In hind sight it would have saved all this current angst.Market capitalization divided by the number of employees will indicate the cost of a buy out
It was first made when the company floated.Unfortunately nobody was interested.A particular Captain tried to gather some enthusiasm.In hind sight it would have saved all this current angst.Market capitalization divided by the number of employees will indicate the cost of a buy out
Last edited by Race Bannon; 15th May 2011 at 08:51.
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neville_nobody
Nothing less than $6000 per flight hour for typical biz jet with instructor.
WRT the topic, all I can say, is hopefully the folks will stand firm. You guys are the last few frontiers that can still hold the fort for the ever eroding T & Cs for the rest.
You certainly have my support, and not let the management get away with their insatiable appetite for ROI.
$2000+ per flight hour???
WRT the topic, all I can say, is hopefully the folks will stand firm. You guys are the last few frontiers that can still hold the fort for the ever eroding T & Cs for the rest.
You certainly have my support, and not let the management get away with their insatiable appetite for ROI.
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Why exactly isn't there an employee representative on the board? Employees must make up a certain percentage of shareholders. So why has there never been a push to get an elected representative of all employee-shareholders to manage their interest at the board level? Surely with all of our accumulated shares we could get a seat on the board to represent us?
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Even if they could, one seat at the board representing interests other than the bulk shareholders would amount to zero say in the running of the airline. The staff would need several seats on the board to have any tangible effect.
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Now I know your dreaming, I'll give you some colour to sleep on.
First of all, no one is ever going to invite employees onboard just to secure industrial peace.
In reality, before employees get any seats at the big table, they will first have to control between 5% and 15% of the QAN shares on issue. Might sound feasible, but every time owning Qantas shares has been put up by some enlightened unionist, the proposal and the proposer were promptly shot down by loud mouths who can't see past their navel.
I know someone on this Forum has already pointed out that UAL employees traded a 15% wage cut for 55% of United, but even then, they only got 3 seats at the table and that was America.
It's a good idea, but not one that is likely to get up.
First of all, no one is ever going to invite employees onboard just to secure industrial peace.
In reality, before employees get any seats at the big table, they will first have to control between 5% and 15% of the QAN shares on issue. Might sound feasible, but every time owning Qantas shares has been put up by some enlightened unionist, the proposal and the proposer were promptly shot down by loud mouths who can't see past their navel.
I know someone on this Forum has already pointed out that UAL employees traded a 15% wage cut for 55% of United, but even then, they only got 3 seats at the table and that was America.
It's a good idea, but not one that is likely to get up.
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just my 2c
in Germany many large corporation have an employee represantative on the board!
Outcome: stable wage increases- little industrial disputes-long term profits
The Qantas Board could take some serious advise from the model!
Outcome: stable wage increases- little industrial disputes-long term profits
The Qantas Board could take some serious advise from the model!
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Now he says it
Qantas international losing money, warns chief executive Alan Joyce
Now he says it. 
Away we go now, off in another direction. What he is really saying, we have milked the cow dry (in favour of J*) now it's all the fault of the Australian workers. If he feels off shoring in Asia will be an easy solution, I say he is wrong as I lived in Asia for seven years. The Asian MROs are happy to to service Australian registered aircraft but would not take kindly to Australia setting up a Australian International airline in direct competition to the local encumbered. All sorts of funny business things would make it a hard slog for this current management. These guys really don't have a clue how it works in Asia, they just think they do!
"Our international business is loss making. It has severe structural challenges."
Mr Joyce said that Qantas doesn't rule out the idea of establishing an offshore unit to help boost profits from international services in the future.
Mr Joyce said that Qantas doesn't rule out the idea of establishing an offshore unit to help boost profits from international services in the future.
Away we go now, off in another direction. What he is really saying, we have milked the cow dry (in favour of J*) now it's all the fault of the Australian workers. If he feels off shoring in Asia will be an easy solution, I say he is wrong as I lived in Asia for seven years. The Asian MROs are happy to to service Australian registered aircraft but would not take kindly to Australia setting up a Australian International airline in direct competition to the local encumbered. All sorts of funny business things would make it a hard slog for this current management. These guys really don't have a clue how it works in Asia, they just think they do!
Nunc est bibendum
"Our international business is loss making. It has severe structural challenges."
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Hope all the Pollies like Fried Rice/Nasi Goreng and Chilli sauce when they travel on their 1st class freebies with the NEW Qantas. (Don't worry about the foreign pilot contractors who got their (alleged) licences in some failed eastern bloc country or another of those fake Indian 'Airline Pilots'. They will be accompanied by a 200 hour wonder cadet who is paying to be there. Just sit back, relax and trust that the system works). After all, AJ wouldn't lie about QF International being a failure, would he. Pig Sars he wouldn't.
If they can't run a business properly at home, what makes them think they can make a success of it abroad ?
The potential is certainly there in Singapore, good location, access to cheap non unionised labour, growing market, favourable tax rates, stable with a good infrastructure.
But do they understand Asian ways of doing things ? The example of Jetstar in Vietnam shows otherwise.
The potential is certainly there in Singapore, good location, access to cheap non unionised labour, growing market, favourable tax rates, stable with a good infrastructure.
But do they understand Asian ways of doing things ? The example of Jetstar in Vietnam shows otherwise.
If they can't run a business properly at home, what makes them think they can make a success of it abroad ?
It has severe structural challenges