Virgin Does What Qantas Can't

[packrat]

Fortuitous Circumstances

Lets face it before Ansett fell over Qantas was struggling domestically.Ansett's demise left a void.That void is about to filled by an invigorated Virgin Airline run by someone who knows what they are doing.
Woolies always looked good because Coles was run badly.Now Coles is being run properly the paradigm is changing.So it will be with domestic aviation.
The Virgin livery, uniforms and slick ads must make a lot of people working there really excited.That excitement will be self perpetuating.Qantas by comparison is as boring as yesterday's toast.
Some one tell me again.
People travel with Qantas because....?

[my oleo is extended]

People travel with Qantas because....?

Because even though The Leprechaun and his predecessor Darth have turned a once excellent airline into a cheap and nasty outfit it still has better service and OTP than Virgin, Jetstar and Tiger.
However, out of complete fairness I rate all of them a 10/10 on the 'crap scale'. Europe has certainly left its mark on the way Australian airlines now operate.

[packrat]

Wait a Minuet

Qantas is Jetstar.
Jetstar is Qantas.
There is no differential. Why?
Because someone screwed up.
This is not how to manage a brand stategy

[600ft-lb]

Qantas is Jetstar.

When questioning staff confront management about the loss of routes, jobs, conditions, job security.

Jetstar is Qantas.

When new aircraft are purchased, tooling required, adhoc charters required if a JQ aircraft is unserviceable, a JQ flight has gone unserviceable when a conveniently timed Qantas flight is also departing, when hangar space is required, training facilities required, terminal space required, basically anything that costs money and can be written off against the mainline etc. etc.

[astroboy55]

The Virgin livery, uniforms and slick ads must make a lot of people working there really excited.

The $30-$80 (some have said up to $150) million dollar loss will not.

[Xcel]

However much it pains me to say it...

Qf are actually in a good position but only right now... If they wait they will lose more than 10%...

They have pushed vb out of the leisure market - it's now theirs... Now they could punish vb with a revamp of their own... But they won't.

While vb is spending all Qantas need do is retain- they already have the infastructure.

If Qantas dropped all prices- gave it a real spring clean promised the world to the punters. Then when they squeeze vb into no-mans land, to expensive for leisure and business whilst losing money hand over fist... They get a real aviation wet dream - no competition!! All pilots get transferred to Jetstar And part time contracts...

But then the nightmare ends. Arrogance will come to the rescue of vb though.

[HF3000]

Disagree... QF have billions in the bank. Now is the time to spend big and make their product the bees knees. Spending money will make money, if its done right.

In this environment, it's not the cheapest that wins, it's the best.

Clifford will disagree, and that is why he fails.

[ditzyboy]

It is a shame the airlines are not competing on Economy legroom. As cabin crew, I think it is a lack personal space and room for cabin baggage that causes most angst in our frequent flyers. If you're going on a yearly family you don't care so much. The people who fly 2-3 times per week do. They must dread the 737s.

[Servo]

I dont understand why people keep saying that DJ are "pulling out" of the leisure market. They are not.Simple as that.

It is still and always will be a big part of their income stream.

All they are doing is attracting at least another 10% of the corporate market, win-win for DJ.

They have a much lower cost base than QF, probably not as "low" as JQ, so in a better position.

Low airfares are not sustainable, nor is putting a 747-400 PER-SYD. If QF want to bleed money doing so and bleed money with cheap and nasty in their JQ product, it will not be good.

Also as others have mentioned, the workforce at DJ is 99% engaged with a spring in their step, QF on the other hand...........

Time will tell. Do Not underestimate John, he is one step ahead of QF because he was there!

[ANCDU]

Time will tell. Do Not underestimate John, he is one step ahead of QF because he was there!

Thats exactly why some of you at Virgin need to be careful what you wish for.....

[Ka.Boom]

Borghetti is Not the Enemy

When travelling Borghetti was always engaging.Quite happy to chat with a happy disposition.
Dixon hardly ever spoke to anyone and was generally rude when he did.
Borghetti will make the hard decisions but there will not be any malice attached.He is not a narcissisist.He does not have a grand sense of entitlement.More importantly he doesnt need the money.He is motivated by the challenge

[lineupandwait]

Pretty simple really.

I fly Sydney Sunshine Coast a few times a year.

QF does not fly the route, I don't fly JQ.

It's not all about lowest fare price.

[astroboy55]

not sustainable, nor is putting a 747-400 PER-SYD

The classics would probably still be doing PER returns if it wasnt for the GFC. I think you'll find a 400 on those runs is more than sustainable.....

[DEFCON4]

Jumbos 743 to Perth

The reason the 743 was taken off the route was simple....they kept breaking down.It was commonplace for two 743s to be US on the ground at the same time.Due to the curfew in Sydney there was only a narrow window for repair.Overnighting was a regular event.Tired old technology that required high maintenance.Passenger backlash finally caused their removal and eventual transfer to the desert

[coaldemon]

and doing 4 hour cycles on a 747-400 will do the same.

[Go West]

Can a 747 can be profitable to Perth? If a 737 was to use 10t the whole flight how much would a 744 use to TOC? More frequency, more efficency, less engines I guess would be a good start.....Do they fill those things? I am guessing not but please correct me if I am wrong.

[1746]

Having read only the last page -whilst witnessing this demise first hand - I suggest a more appropriate title for this subject is "VIRGIN DOES WHAT QANTAS WON'T!"

[Tidbinbilla]

Thank you, 1746.

The posts relating to "the Jetstarisation of Qantas" have been moved to the appropriately titled thread.

Please feel free to continue the discussion there

Meanwhile, back to the topic

[Ejector]

STANDARD UNIT ---- Splill your guts Sir, What do you mean??

re post #9

[psycho joe]

The classics would probably still be doing PER returns if it wasnt for the GFC. I think you'll find a 400 on those runs is more than sustainable.....

I had thought that the only reason the classics were doing Perth runs was because they were so old and sh!tty that QANTAS didn't know what else to do with them. Nothing to do with sustainability.