Plane Talking - Ben Sandilands on the money yet again!
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some of the idiots on this forum have put too much faith on the senate enquiry. You will be disappointed. At the end of the day it will achieve very little because it involves politicians with vested interests and red tape. Think about this: What will they gain and how many votes are they going to win by pursuing the matter?
Yes there are many idiots on this forum so well done for putting your handup. The Senate Inquiry has already produced changes so it has achieved some of its aim of looking at safety standards. The politicians vested interest is that they spend a lot of their time on aircraft and they want to know about any problems with an industry, that up until now, they thought was sound. What they have found is that Corporate greed is placing safety and sound operational practice a long way back in their order of priorities. Change won't happen tomorrow or next week but change there will be.
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Letter from Alan Joyce!
Letter from Qantas CEO, Alan Joyce
June 9, 2011 – 10:40 am, by Ben Sandilands
The CEO of the Qantas group Alan Joyce has responded to a report published in the Crikey subscriber bulletin on June 7, and later that day, in a slightly different version, in Plane Talking.
June 9, 2011 – 10:40 am, by Ben Sandilands
The CEO of the Qantas group Alan Joyce has responded to a report published in the Crikey subscriber bulletin on June 7, and later that day, in a slightly different version, in Plane Talking.
Dear Ben
It is clear that you do not agree with me about the nature of the challenges facing Qantas and the solutions to them (“Qantas to suffer as Virgin gets it on with Singapore Airlines”, 7 June 2011). While I am perfectly willing to accept and respond to criticism, I cannot agree with the premise of some of your arguments.
First, your claim that at IATA I was ‘surrounded’ by ‘much more successful airlines’ than Qantas is sensationalist. Qantas has been profitable every year since privatisation, including in each year of my time as CEO, and including at the height of the global financial crisis when airlines around the world were closing their doors, as well as winning many awards for product and service. You also overlook the fact that I took part in a very positive announcement at IATA, about Malaysia Airlines’ decision to join oneworld – a move that will strengthen the alliance’s position in Asia with considerable commercial benefits for Qantas.
Second, you say that Qantas has ‘failed to make a timely resolution of enterprise agreements that it has allowed to expire.’ You do not consider that the actions of the unions involved may be inimical to resolving these agreements, given that if accepted their claims would place an unsustainable cost burden on the airline and prevent us competing effectively with the carriers you name in your piece.
Third, you assert that Virgin Australia’s proposed alliance with Singapore Airlines would make it a “more Australian airline” than Qantas. I find this statement bizarre. Qantas employs 35,000 people, the vast majority of them in Australia, and its contribution to the national economy is far greater than that of Virgin Australia. In March 2011, Virgin Australia announced a profit downgrade, forecasting a financial year loss of $30 to $80 million. Its repositioning strategy, including alliances, remains unproven.
Fourth, you criticise Qantas’ new Dallas/Fort Worth service as ‘amateur hour’. Yet as recently as January this year you yourself listed the very good commercial and operational reasons for the launch of the route – not least an expanded partnership with American Airlines of the type you describe approvingly in your 7 June piece (as ‘globally branded airline rationalisation’). I have full confidence that our strategy in commencing Dallas/Fort Worth services was the correct one for Qantas.
These are just a few of the matters you have raised in your recent pieces, many of which you frame as personal criticisms of my leadership and that of the Qantas board and executive team. I would welcome the right of reply through publication of this letter in Crikey or Plane Talking.
Yours faithfully
ALAN JOYCE
It is clear that you do not agree with me about the nature of the challenges facing Qantas and the solutions to them (“Qantas to suffer as Virgin gets it on with Singapore Airlines”, 7 June 2011). While I am perfectly willing to accept and respond to criticism, I cannot agree with the premise of some of your arguments.
First, your claim that at IATA I was ‘surrounded’ by ‘much more successful airlines’ than Qantas is sensationalist. Qantas has been profitable every year since privatisation, including in each year of my time as CEO, and including at the height of the global financial crisis when airlines around the world were closing their doors, as well as winning many awards for product and service. You also overlook the fact that I took part in a very positive announcement at IATA, about Malaysia Airlines’ decision to join oneworld – a move that will strengthen the alliance’s position in Asia with considerable commercial benefits for Qantas.
Second, you say that Qantas has ‘failed to make a timely resolution of enterprise agreements that it has allowed to expire.’ You do not consider that the actions of the unions involved may be inimical to resolving these agreements, given that if accepted their claims would place an unsustainable cost burden on the airline and prevent us competing effectively with the carriers you name in your piece.
Third, you assert that Virgin Australia’s proposed alliance with Singapore Airlines would make it a “more Australian airline” than Qantas. I find this statement bizarre. Qantas employs 35,000 people, the vast majority of them in Australia, and its contribution to the national economy is far greater than that of Virgin Australia. In March 2011, Virgin Australia announced a profit downgrade, forecasting a financial year loss of $30 to $80 million. Its repositioning strategy, including alliances, remains unproven.
Fourth, you criticise Qantas’ new Dallas/Fort Worth service as ‘amateur hour’. Yet as recently as January this year you yourself listed the very good commercial and operational reasons for the launch of the route – not least an expanded partnership with American Airlines of the type you describe approvingly in your 7 June piece (as ‘globally branded airline rationalisation’). I have full confidence that our strategy in commencing Dallas/Fort Worth services was the correct one for Qantas.
These are just a few of the matters you have raised in your recent pieces, many of which you frame as personal criticisms of my leadership and that of the Qantas board and executive team. I would welcome the right of reply through publication of this letter in Crikey or Plane Talking.
Yours faithfully
ALAN JOYCE
Second, you say that Qantas has ‘failed to make a timely resolution of enterprise agreements that it has allowed to expire.’ You do not consider that the actions of the unions involved may be inimical to resolving these agreements, given that if accepted their claims would place an unsustainable cost burden on the airline and prevent us competing effectively with the carriers you name in your piece.
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Ben Sandilands should be applauded for exposing this rouge, kamikaze CEO, he is one of few who is not fearful to tell it how it is. Sandilands has clearly gotten under the skin of one Alan Joyce who it seems doesn't like reading the negative press (I guess his staff don't either).
A special mention should also go to Olivia Worth for writting such an articulate reply on behalf of the QF CEO to the Sandilands article, then spending the time to post it on PPrune.
Maybe the QF managers should spend less time "leaking" info via all media outlets about staff and take care of shop.
A special mention should also go to Olivia Worth for writting such an articulate reply on behalf of the QF CEO to the Sandilands article, then spending the time to post it on PPrune.
Maybe the QF managers should spend less time "leaking" info via all media outlets about staff and take care of shop.
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I hope Ben does publish that letter, if its not a proon wind up.
Each of the points Joyce makes are easily rebutted. Livy, honey, I give that effort a D.
edited to add: Oops, my mistake. It has been published. Ben did not need to rebut any of Joyces assertions. Some of his blog readers have done that for themselves very well eloquently indeed.
Each of the points Joyce makes are easily rebutted. Livy, honey, I give that effort a D.
edited to add: Oops, my mistake. It has been published. Ben did not need to rebut any of Joyces assertions. Some of his blog readers have done that for themselves very well eloquently indeed.
Last edited by waren9; 10th Jun 2011 at 03:53.
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Seem to recall Keating doing a similar thing with Laws on the eve of his fall - Joyce has effectively become the powerless punter.
Q has for years kept Sandilands on the outer in favour of tortuous writers who rehash the spin.
The response itself is a sign that the reclusive paranoia has set in - a CEO with balls and leadership would simply give him a call - same thing applies to the nonsense sprouted by the ugly witch of pollie PR.
If Joyce actually was a leader he would have been prepared to front a forum of employees and answer the hard qestions. Instead he abuses the very people that are working to stuff his wallet with his undeserved bonus.
Crikey - don't publish his biased onse sided letter - let him front up for a interview and make sure you ask a few hard questions about the blow out on the re-config project and ask him to justify his performance bonus.
Close the interview with "when are you stepping down....rule 34 says he who denies and blames the employees already has the resignation drafted
AT
Q has for years kept Sandilands on the outer in favour of tortuous writers who rehash the spin.
The response itself is a sign that the reclusive paranoia has set in - a CEO with balls and leadership would simply give him a call - same thing applies to the nonsense sprouted by the ugly witch of pollie PR.
If Joyce actually was a leader he would have been prepared to front a forum of employees and answer the hard qestions. Instead he abuses the very people that are working to stuff his wallet with his undeserved bonus.
Crikey - don't publish his biased onse sided letter - let him front up for a interview and make sure you ask a few hard questions about the blow out on the re-config project and ask him to justify his performance bonus.
Close the interview with "when are you stepping down....rule 34 says he who denies and blames the employees already has the resignation drafted
AT
let him front up for a interview and make sure you ask a few hard questions about the blow out on the re-config project and ask him to justify his performance bonus
That's not a bad idea but also let AJ enlighten the world about the Ts&Cs that many of the old farts enjoy. Like, was an overly generous company superannuation contribution meant to have ppl retire with several million dollars (to fund their several divorces
)? Critics prattle on about a 9% contribution but what about all those in Div 1 of the Super Plan? Why not tell the public about the extraordinarily generous allowances and per diems that crew are paid and, in the case of captains, double the rate of First and Second Officers? I could go on and on but I don't want to be persecuted to death by white ants who sometimes infest these fora.
Nunc est bibendum
...extraordinarily generous allowances and per diems that crew are paid and, in the case of captains, double the rate of First and Second Officers?
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Funny how AJ didn't write a letter to correct all the inaccuracies in Joe Hilderbrandt's articles! As well as the "inaccuracies" by his spokesperson... Ah, to be sure, to be sure...
Last edited by assasin8; 9th Aug 2011 at 23:22.
'holic,
That's a fair question! Management has a lot to answer for but there's not been a lot wrong with fleet planning. Where would QF be if the weren't delays with the A380 and B787, not to mention having 'lost' one A380 for a not inconsiderable period. AIPA and the FAAA have a heavy burden to carry as well: their head-in-the-sand attitude toward the continuation of 19th century work practices and Ts and Cs is astounding. If you ask me, if M'ment and the unionswere able to work constructively together, Jetstar would have never have seen the light of day. Therein is the rub.
That said, I have to admire Qantas staff and their dedication to the passengers as there is not a whiff of disengagement at the customer level. It's high time the erosion of confidence by staff stopped - the hand that feeds can only be bitten for so long.
That's a fair question! Management has a lot to answer for but there's not been a lot wrong with fleet planning. Where would QF be if the weren't delays with the A380 and B787, not to mention having 'lost' one A380 for a not inconsiderable period. AIPA and the FAAA have a heavy burden to carry as well: their head-in-the-sand attitude toward the continuation of 19th century work practices and Ts and Cs is astounding. If you ask me, if M'ment and the unionswere able to work constructively together, Jetstar would have never have seen the light of day. Therein is the rub.
That said, I have to admire Qantas staff and their dedication to the passengers as there is not a whiff of disengagement at the customer level. It's high time the erosion of confidence by staff stopped - the hand that feeds can only be bitten for so long.
AIPA and the FAAA have a heavy burden to carry as well: their head-in-the-sand attitude toward the continuation of 19th century work practices and Ts and Cs is astounding. If you ask me, if M'ment and the unionswere able to work constructively together, Jetstar would have never have seen the light of day
What was the end result for all that goodwill? AO closed down for Jetstar with the employees finding out via the front page of the Cairns Post.
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Ken,
Do you think it is wise "fleet planning" to pin all future growth hopes on 2 aircraft types that hadn't even left the drawing board when Qantas ordered them?
Sure order new type aircraft for strategic growth, but for tactical planning they should have gotten triples, there's no question. It was a tried, tested product, that fit their needs perfectly.
Fleet planning dropped the ball, missed a whole generation of aircraft, and are now seeking to blame everyone but themselves for the mistake.
Do you think it is wise "fleet planning" to pin all future growth hopes on 2 aircraft types that hadn't even left the drawing board when Qantas ordered them?
Sure order new type aircraft for strategic growth, but for tactical planning they should have gotten triples, there's no question. It was a tried, tested product, that fit their needs perfectly.
Fleet planning dropped the ball, missed a whole generation of aircraft, and are now seeking to blame everyone but themselves for the mistake.
So Ken Borough, you reckon "retiring with Seven Million dollars" is a bit rich?
After a career of how many years?
By the way, how much is the CEO retiring with and after how many years?
How "Generous" is the company contribution? Don't you understand that the "Seven Million Dollars" does not represent a cost to Qantas since it has been accumulated over Thirty plus years in a superannuation account?
It may even be possible that the Super account is profitable for Qantas since if it is a defined benefit scheme, any surplus belongs to the company.
...And what about the poor bugger who has a medical condition and has to stop flying at 49? He never saw the big money did he?
Here's a thought, why not go and recruit some pilots from Colgan, they are nice and cheap, and let them loose on your A380's along with 200 hour cadets. That is where you want to go isn't it?
Accident ID DCA09MA027 Mode Aviation occurred on February 12, 2009 in Clarence Center, NY United States Last Modified on May 11, 2009 09:05 Public Released on May 12, 2009 09:05 Total 135 document items
Quotes from the Cockpit Voice recorder transcript:
21:49:28.9
HOT-1
oh it's like it's a second career for me basically because I— I was able to
take that package with Verizon.
21:49:34.1
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:35.5
HOT-1
but uh...you know it's...you know do I— g— at this point do I go to a major
and you know not be able to be there for very long.
21:49:48.8
HOT-2
yeah be an FO the rest of your life or...
......
22:03:21.2
HOT-1
man I— it's just all the pressure of all the the congestion and the the
volume and weather and anything and everything. the the controllers uh
they just it's like they uh constantly have their—.
.....
22:12:05.0
HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
22:16:23.5
HOT-1
flaps fifteen before landing checklist.
22:16:26.0
CAM
[sound similar to flap handle movement]
22:16:26.6
HOT-2
uhhh.
22:16:27.4
CAM
[sound similar to stick shaker lasting 6.7 seconds]
22:16:27.7
HOT
[sound similar to autopilot disconnect horn repeats until end of recording]
22:16:27.9
CAM
[sound of click]
22:16:31.1
CAM
[sound similar to increase in engine power]
22:16:34.8
HOT-1
Jesus Christ.
22:16:35.4
CAM
[sound similar to stick shaker lasting until end of recording]
22:16:37.1
HOT-2
I put the flaps up.
22:16:40.2
CAM
[sound of two clicks]
22:16:42.2
HOT-1
[sound of grunt] *ther bear.
22:16:45.8
HOT-2
should the gear up?
22:16:46.8
HOT-1
gear up oh #.
22:16:50.1
CAM
[increase in ambient noise]
22:16:51.9
HOT-1
we're down.
22:16:51.9
CAM
[sound of thump]
22:16:52.0
HOT-2
we're [sound of scream]
22:16:53.9
END OF TRANSCRIPT
END OF RECORDING
General Error
After a career of how many years?
By the way, how much is the CEO retiring with and after how many years?
How "Generous" is the company contribution? Don't you understand that the "Seven Million Dollars" does not represent a cost to Qantas since it has been accumulated over Thirty plus years in a superannuation account?
It may even be possible that the Super account is profitable for Qantas since if it is a defined benefit scheme, any surplus belongs to the company.
...And what about the poor bugger who has a medical condition and has to stop flying at 49? He never saw the big money did he?
Here's a thought, why not go and recruit some pilots from Colgan, they are nice and cheap, and let them loose on your A380's along with 200 hour cadets. That is where you want to go isn't it?
Accident ID DCA09MA027 Mode Aviation occurred on February 12, 2009 in Clarence Center, NY United States Last Modified on May 11, 2009 09:05 Public Released on May 12, 2009 09:05 Total 135 document items
Quotes from the Cockpit Voice recorder transcript:
21:49:28.9
HOT-1
oh it's like it's a second career for me basically because I— I was able to
take that package with Verizon.
21:49:34.1
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:35.5
HOT-1
but uh...you know it's...you know do I— g— at this point do I go to a major
and you know not be able to be there for very long.
21:49:48.8
HOT-2
yeah be an FO the rest of your life or...
......
22:03:21.2
HOT-1
man I— it's just all the pressure of all the the congestion and the the
volume and weather and anything and everything. the the controllers uh
they just it's like they uh constantly have their—.
.....
22:12:05.0
HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
22:16:23.5
HOT-1
flaps fifteen before landing checklist.
22:16:26.0
CAM
[sound similar to flap handle movement]
22:16:26.6
HOT-2
uhhh.
22:16:27.4
CAM
[sound similar to stick shaker lasting 6.7 seconds]
22:16:27.7
HOT
[sound similar to autopilot disconnect horn repeats until end of recording]
22:16:27.9
CAM
[sound of click]
22:16:31.1
CAM
[sound similar to increase in engine power]
22:16:34.8
HOT-1
Jesus Christ.
22:16:35.4
CAM
[sound similar to stick shaker lasting until end of recording]
22:16:37.1
HOT-2
I put the flaps up.
22:16:40.2
CAM
[sound of two clicks]
22:16:42.2
HOT-1
[sound of grunt] *ther bear.
22:16:45.8
HOT-2
should the gear up?
22:16:46.8
HOT-1
gear up oh #.
22:16:50.1
CAM
[increase in ambient noise]
22:16:51.9
HOT-1
we're down.
22:16:51.9
CAM
[sound of thump]
22:16:52.0
HOT-2
we're [sound of scream]
22:16:53.9
END OF TRANSCRIPT
END OF RECORDING
General Error
Last edited by Sunfish; 10th Jun 2011 at 06:48.
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Hey Ken, you must have gone to the same marketing school as our beloved Olivia? Seven million in super hey?
Gee, that's my third letter to payroll! First was they have been underpaying me, as I have been getting nowhere near my $ 350000...
Then there will be the $200000 pay rise... Had to give them a new account number, because my account was bulging at the seams!
Now I have to let them know I've been dudded on my super as well!
Must thank you for pointing that out...
"to be sure, to be sure..."
Gee, that's my third letter to payroll! First was they have been underpaying me, as I have been getting nowhere near my $ 350000...
Then there will be the $200000 pay rise... Had to give them a new account number, because my account was bulging at the seams!
Now I have to let them know I've been dudded on my super as well!
Must thank you for pointing that out...
"to be sure, to be sure..."
Last edited by assasin8; 9th Aug 2011 at 23:19.