Qantas Doing it Tough ?
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Bigger Was the Wrong Way to Go
Boeing's own research indicated that Airbus was going the wrong way with the A380.It was just not a practical aircraft and has been said a niche filler only.
It was only ever designed for high volume routes of which Qantas has three.The rest of the network is largely regional and much of that has been given to Jetstar(with more to follow)
Borghetti suggested that it would eventually fly to JoBurg.Qantas simply has the wrong fleet mix.
This is what happens when management have the wrong skillset for the operation.Apart from Borghetti and Lindeman the executive experience was running a domestic airline in a fairly benign domestic market.When the game changed it quckly became obvious they were out of their depth.
Air travel is price sensitive except when you offer a premium product a la Sing Air.Joyce keeps ramping up prices and levies for a product that is anything but premium.Bundle this with all the other Qantas shortcomings and the punters are leaving in droves.
They have Grant heading a taskforce to brainstorm solutions.The result will be more of the same.... costcutting .Qantas spends money on the wrong areas of the operation(lounges for example)but neglect the fundamentals.The food is attrocious and there is little of it.Particularly J/C and P/C where the high yield travellers sit.
Unless someone with nouse and knowledge is found to run the place effectively it will die a slow humiliating death
It was only ever designed for high volume routes of which Qantas has three.The rest of the network is largely regional and much of that has been given to Jetstar(with more to follow)
Borghetti suggested that it would eventually fly to JoBurg.Qantas simply has the wrong fleet mix.
This is what happens when management have the wrong skillset for the operation.Apart from Borghetti and Lindeman the executive experience was running a domestic airline in a fairly benign domestic market.When the game changed it quckly became obvious they were out of their depth.
Air travel is price sensitive except when you offer a premium product a la Sing Air.Joyce keeps ramping up prices and levies for a product that is anything but premium.Bundle this with all the other Qantas shortcomings and the punters are leaving in droves.
They have Grant heading a taskforce to brainstorm solutions.The result will be more of the same.... costcutting .Qantas spends money on the wrong areas of the operation(lounges for example)but neglect the fundamentals.The food is attrocious and there is little of it.Particularly J/C and P/C where the high yield travellers sit.
Unless someone with nouse and knowledge is found to run the place effectively it will die a slow humiliating death
Last edited by DEFCON4; 24th Apr 2011 at 00:37.
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There is more
As recently printed in the media European regulators want to change the sales act under the European open ski agreement. what a lot of rubbish. open sky agreements do not require changing the sales act. one can have an open sky agreement (europa and the US) but does not need to interfere in ones company structure. It would suit QF as they then can link with either IAG or others and employ, base more planes overseas with overseas crews.
Australian Newspaper: AMBITIOUS Qantas plans to develop a Shanghai hub similar to its Singaporean operation are being slowed by European demands that the Qantas Sale Act be changed as part of an open skies agreement.
Defcon, having travelled recently on other carriers i must admit QF food isn't that bad in the pointy end. As for the fleet mix i totally agree. imagine the fuel money saved if QF had triplers going to SFO/FRA/etc.
As i mentioned before the 2 remote cousins (AJ & WW) come from the same stock with a slash and burn mentality.
Australian Newspaper: AMBITIOUS Qantas plans to develop a Shanghai hub similar to its Singaporean operation are being slowed by European demands that the Qantas Sale Act be changed as part of an open skies agreement.
Defcon, having travelled recently on other carriers i must admit QF food isn't that bad in the pointy end. As for the fleet mix i totally agree. imagine the fuel money saved if QF had triplers going to SFO/FRA/etc.
As i mentioned before the 2 remote cousins (AJ & WW) come from the same stock with a slash and burn mentality.
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The biggest mistake for QF was not getting 777's enough said, too many chiefs not enough Indians I say! The funny thing is that the frontline staff knew it all along while multi million idiots just stuffed it up, same with all companies these days...
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Being a publicly listed company on the ASX they are well researched by a number of broking houses.
Consensus earnings per share for the year 2012 are estimated to be about 26.5c per share and in 2013 almost 33 cents per share.
Consensus earnings per share for the year 2012 are estimated to be about 26.5c per share and in 2013 almost 33 cents per share.
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Our earnings outlook may be bright, but since the GFC I refuse to listen to these broking idiots who failed to see it coming, or who lost millions of other ppl's money. Most are simply market commentators.
And....FFS.....how many European airlines still fly to Australia?
Greece - Olympic - and QF flew to Athens
Old Yugoslavia - JAT - and QF flew to Belgrade
Italy - Alitalia - and QF flew to Rome
Austria - Lauda Air and Austrian Airlines - and QF flew to Vienna
France - Air France - and QF flew to Paris
Netherlands - KLM - and QF flew to Amsterdam
leaves
Germany - Lufthansa - and QF still flies to Frankfurt.
UK - BA and QF flew to Manchester and naturally still to London.
Who flies here? BA but does anyone else?
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Doing it Tough?
Lets see if I have got perspective on this....
Qantas Profit 2009....$163,315,000 (BAD Unions!!)
Lufthansa Profit $388,252,000 (Must have BAD Unions!)
National Aviation Company of India Loss -$1,260,317,000 (Good Unions!)
Phillipine Airlines Loss -$266,000,000 (Good Unions!)
JAL Loss -$1,309,693,000 (What Union?)
Air France KLM Loss -$1,729,475,000 (Nasty Unions!)
Five things stand out for me....
1) Qantas isnt doing it tough....they've just ballzed it up
2) There is no correlation between Unions Vs Profit....Even in places like India where labour costs are basically zero....you can still ballz it up
3) Ken...stop it...your hand will get tired....anyone who has worked for Q knows how to see and smell the crap being peddled as solutions....
4) QF board need to smell what they are shovelling
5) Re A380 Fuel Burn...if its not as per advertised performance, QF will be compensated...like they were with the RB211-524G's which didnt work as advertised..so no loss there..
I need a nap after that rant....
Figures from ATW... http://atwonline.com/sites/atwonline...t%202010_0.pdf
Qantas Profit 2009....$163,315,000 (BAD Unions!!)
Lufthansa Profit $388,252,000 (Must have BAD Unions!)
National Aviation Company of India Loss -$1,260,317,000 (Good Unions!)
Phillipine Airlines Loss -$266,000,000 (Good Unions!)
JAL Loss -$1,309,693,000 (What Union?)
Air France KLM Loss -$1,729,475,000 (Nasty Unions!)
Five things stand out for me....
1) Qantas isnt doing it tough....they've just ballzed it up
2) There is no correlation between Unions Vs Profit....Even in places like India where labour costs are basically zero....you can still ballz it up
3) Ken...stop it...your hand will get tired....anyone who has worked for Q knows how to see and smell the crap being peddled as solutions....
4) QF board need to smell what they are shovelling
5) Re A380 Fuel Burn...if its not as per advertised performance, QF will be compensated...like they were with the RB211-524G's which didnt work as advertised..so no loss there..
I need a nap after that rant....
Figures from ATW... http://atwonline.com/sites/atwonline...t%202010_0.pdf
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It's a real shame that the union issue is not being addressed.
Every time you Qantas guys don't get your way you threaten strike action! Perhaps that's why you scare your customers off and you lose market share? Who wants to fly with an over priced airline flying museum pieces around the skies with staff that are not engaged! You give your customers every excuse to leave for another competitor offering a better product. When you threaten strike action it gives them even more reason to dump their loyalty and leave because at the end of the day they need to be at an appointment/meeting on time safely. They now have more airline choices than ever before all performing with an equal amount of safety as Qantas once had.
Yep, bad management could be to blame or perhaps union demands could be to blame, one way or the other, threatening strike action is most definitely partly to blame for the continue loss of business to the Qantas group. This alienation from management has been built from many years of staunch union demands and bickering. It's a real shame, a real shame.
Right now Qantas is trying to negotiate with Air New Zealand a new contract for ground services. I'd almost bet my left testie that Qantas will lose this to another service provider out of fear because of the bantering of strikes!
Cast your mind back to the last time Qantas engineers striked, you might also remember around that time Qantas engineering lost 60% of their work to another provider. Air New Zealand and Cathay Pacific dumped Qantas because they couldn't work with a group that will strike and threaten their business.
I am most definitely a strong union supporter, but just because you are in negotiations doesn't mean you need to get more out the honey pot. constant demands is not healthy dialogue.
As I've said before, Qantas does not have the monopoly anymore, the more you threaten strike action, the more you alienate yourselves from management and the more you drive your customers away. Every time you hear of strike action in aviation in this country, you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be Qantas!
United we stand! the fall is going to hurt.
You guys are the masters of your own destiny. All the best of luck.
Every time you Qantas guys don't get your way you threaten strike action! Perhaps that's why you scare your customers off and you lose market share? Who wants to fly with an over priced airline flying museum pieces around the skies with staff that are not engaged! You give your customers every excuse to leave for another competitor offering a better product. When you threaten strike action it gives them even more reason to dump their loyalty and leave because at the end of the day they need to be at an appointment/meeting on time safely. They now have more airline choices than ever before all performing with an equal amount of safety as Qantas once had.
Yep, bad management could be to blame or perhaps union demands could be to blame, one way or the other, threatening strike action is most definitely partly to blame for the continue loss of business to the Qantas group. This alienation from management has been built from many years of staunch union demands and bickering. It's a real shame, a real shame.
Right now Qantas is trying to negotiate with Air New Zealand a new contract for ground services. I'd almost bet my left testie that Qantas will lose this to another service provider out of fear because of the bantering of strikes!
Cast your mind back to the last time Qantas engineers striked, you might also remember around that time Qantas engineering lost 60% of their work to another provider. Air New Zealand and Cathay Pacific dumped Qantas because they couldn't work with a group that will strike and threaten their business.
I am most definitely a strong union supporter, but just because you are in negotiations doesn't mean you need to get more out the honey pot. constant demands is not healthy dialogue.
As I've said before, Qantas does not have the monopoly anymore, the more you threaten strike action, the more you alienate yourselves from management and the more you drive your customers away. Every time you hear of strike action in aviation in this country, you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be Qantas!
United we stand! the fall is going to hurt.
You guys are the masters of your own destiny. All the best of luck.
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Fruet,
So what is your answer then Fruet....just roll over and take it because we dont want to upset the public?? Nobody wants to cause disruptions...however....negotiation is a 2 way process. And at the end of the day if I am going to give away conditions then I want something in return....i.e. a job in 5 years time!!!
So what is your answer then Fruet....just roll over and take it because we dont want to upset the public?? Nobody wants to cause disruptions...however....negotiation is a 2 way process. And at the end of the day if I am going to give away conditions then I want something in return....i.e. a job in 5 years time!!!
Cast your mind back to the last time Qantas engineers striked, you might also remember around that time Qantas engineering lost 60% of their work to another provider. Air New Zealand and Cathay Pacific dumped Qantas because they couldn't work with a group that will strike and threaten their business.
Qantas's customers such as Air NZ (among almost all) were given notice by Qantas management that the service was to be terminated with a notice period.
Cathay employ their own engineers in Australia, so for Qantas to lose that contract those engineers must've been wreaking havoc.
There's always 2 sides mate. Qantas have been going broke since GD ruled supreme and they still are today.
Qantas engineers are paid less then Jetstar engineers for comparable licence types and Jetstar engineers are paid about 25k/year less then Virgin engineers for comparable licence types.
Somehow our 3%/year claim = 46% or whatever it is lately. Any wonder PIA vote got up 80% yes.
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Hey, don't get me wrong guys, I support your plight. Point is, if you keep on with threatening strike action you won't have a job in five years, your customers will leave and this management team will have the perfect excuse to then gift some more flying to Jetstar because you are not "profitable"
I'm sorry, I don't have the answers to what you can do?
Do you work to rule? No overtime, don't except visual approaches or track shortening, tanker fuel? Management work on OTP and economics. If the OTP has turned to shyte because the engineers are working to rule and the gas bill has gone through the roof because the pilots are flying full STARs etc? I dont know but threatening strike action as you always do will lose customers, loyal customers. The customers pay your salary, so don't **** them over, **** your management over. There are too many competitors in Australia now for you guys to be aggressive with strike action. You will reap what you sew. Customers pay your salary not managers!
I'm sorry, I don't have the answers to what you can do?
Do you work to rule? No overtime, don't except visual approaches or track shortening, tanker fuel? Management work on OTP and economics. If the OTP has turned to shyte because the engineers are working to rule and the gas bill has gone through the roof because the pilots are flying full STARs etc? I dont know but threatening strike action as you always do will lose customers, loyal customers. The customers pay your salary, so don't **** them over, **** your management over. There are too many competitors in Australia now for you guys to be aggressive with strike action. You will reap what you sew. Customers pay your salary not managers!
Like we always do ?
There is a reason 'we always do'. EBA negotiations shouldn't have to be expired for over a year before an agreement is reached. Which by the way, the company uses, has used and will continue to use the 'if you don't accept this you won't get your backpay'
The company wants this fight for its own reasons, demands haven't been unreasonable, demands this time are for job security. They won't give it to us which obviously means they want us out.
Regardless of what we concede and just take it on the chin (like the pay freeze in 2001 which was promised to be given back once times got better... never was), they're going to sack us all anyway. The funny thing is I'll probably walk into the door of their new engineering services company on a higher rate of pay then I've been on the day after I'm given the boot for being too expensive.
There is a reason 'we always do'. EBA negotiations shouldn't have to be expired for over a year before an agreement is reached. Which by the way, the company uses, has used and will continue to use the 'if you don't accept this you won't get your backpay'
The company wants this fight for its own reasons, demands haven't been unreasonable, demands this time are for job security. They won't give it to us which obviously means they want us out.
Regardless of what we concede and just take it on the chin (like the pay freeze in 2001 which was promised to be given back once times got better... never was), they're going to sack us all anyway. The funny thing is I'll probably walk into the door of their new engineering services company on a higher rate of pay then I've been on the day after I'm given the boot for being too expensive.
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At no stage have the Pilots threatened a strike. However - The company has said that the pilots will go on strike....
Which is really bizarre.... why would a company tell the public that a group of employees had threatened a strike.....??
What is their agenda?
Lower the share price?
Scare customers off?
Self destruction?
As a shareholder I would love to know why they are ruining my investment, and lying to the media.
Which is really bizarre.... why would a company tell the public that a group of employees had threatened a strike.....??
What is their agenda?
Lower the share price?
Scare customers off?
Self destruction?
As a shareholder I would love to know why they are ruining my investment, and lying to the media.
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Fruet,the engineers too have applied for "Protected Industrial Action". As far as I know a "strike" is along way down the list. Interesting how the employer is the scare monger in the media.
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BCG
Well peoples,
you can throw numbers around, but keep in mind that Qantas (along with jetstar) use a company called Boston Consulting Group (BCG).
BCG conducts analysis of major business and make the company more ....whatever.... efficient, cheap, restructured etc etc....
They are responsible for the direction of Jetstar's "Race to the bottom" and will be the tip of the spear for the removal of conditions at Qantas.
Trust me on this one.
Oh by the way, BCG get paid Sh*tloads of cash to do this to hard working people!
They want to remove the EBA.... and have individual contracts, just like overseas so beware. Start to stand together NOW or you will have nothing!
The reaper is at your door!
you can throw numbers around, but keep in mind that Qantas (along with jetstar) use a company called Boston Consulting Group (BCG).
BCG conducts analysis of major business and make the company more ....whatever.... efficient, cheap, restructured etc etc....
They are responsible for the direction of Jetstar's "Race to the bottom" and will be the tip of the spear for the removal of conditions at Qantas.
Trust me on this one.
Oh by the way, BCG get paid Sh*tloads of cash to do this to hard working people!
They want to remove the EBA.... and have individual contracts, just like overseas so beware. Start to stand together NOW or you will have nothing!
The reaper is at your door!