Another Jetstar Whistleblower
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"The cadets at Jetstar I have just finished training, one of the cadets is getting paid in New Zealand dollars but is required to pay back his training in Australian dollars," he said.
The New Zealand currency has depreciated 6.4 per cent against the Australian dollar since June 30, 2010.
The New Zealand currency has depreciated 6.4 per cent against the Australian dollar since June 30, 2010.
caveat emptor............eh, eh!
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Capt. Toss, having listened to your rather amusing (and horribly close to reality!) account of airline life, you seem very young for a command at 23. At exactly what age did you become a JQ cadet? And how many hours have you logged.
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Well Teresa
Just for the record I am not a JQ cadet nor do I have command experience on jet or turboprop, having said that I do have substantial twin piston time in my book.
My comments, there above are only true with the hope that terms, conditions and safety are not eroded by the time I get the opportunity to fly a big new shiny Jet.
Capt T D
Just for the record I am not a JQ cadet nor do I have command experience on jet or turboprop, having said that I do have substantial twin piston time in my book.
My comments, there above are only true with the hope that terms, conditions and safety are not eroded by the time I get the opportunity to fly a big new shiny Jet.
Capt T D
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genex
ATSB Media Release
Thank-you for your own personal accident analysis which goes beyond the official report. I see you're still a d!ckhead.
The ATSB slammed Qantas after BKK just as they should have and just as I hope they do for any other carrier whose pilots similarly stuff up.
Like most major accidents, QF1 resulted from a complex mixture of active failures, inadequate defences and organisational factors - these are spelled out in our investigation report without fear or favour but not apportioning 'blame'."
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macca,
It's not very wise to bet your left one, doesn't matter how sure the bet, but I'm very close to making a decision on betting the left one that at least 90% of these cadets are gen y.
The best thing about this scheme is that gen y will get a very good lesson on compound interest and debt service. Something that other generations learnt from purchasing a home. At least these generations will have somewhere to live when they retire
It's not very wise to bet your left one, doesn't matter how sure the bet, but I'm very close to making a decision on betting the left one that at least 90% of these cadets are gen y.
The best thing about this scheme is that gen y will get a very good lesson on compound interest and debt service. Something that other generations learnt from purchasing a home. At least these generations will have somewhere to live when they retire
Oh I'm sure Gen Y is the majority of all cadets. At worst late Gen X. But as a member of Gen Y (who is not a Jetstar cadet) I like to think that it's a issue of Naivety from being young not being part of Gen Y.
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G'day Capt Toss Dudley,
Would you be any relation to another Gods gift aviator who keeps us mere mortals in check with his ace of base skills and supreme knowledge gained on the mighty Caribou?
A military man from memory with a special passion for GA folk like your young self.
Would you be any relation to another Gods gift aviator who keeps us mere mortals in check with his ace of base skills and supreme knowledge gained on the mighty Caribou?
A military man from memory with a special passion for GA folk like your young self.
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No it's a different TOSS .... I am the original and the finest
But as we all know there are lot's of Toss's out there in this wonderful industry!
But as we all know there are lot's of Toss's out there in this wonderful industry!
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QF, JQ, VB, CX Impulse, Tiger, Ansett. Gen Y A B C or Z. -At this point who gives a f*&^k. Perhaps what matters is that another thread about pilot unity gone to s^&t. The industry if not already there is next.
Awaiting the inevitable naysayers
Awaiting the inevitable naysayers
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I can’t find anything in the author’s long document that has not applied to airlines I have flown for in the past or present.
200 hour cadet’s – been there, done that. Standard practice around the world.
Hard work with fatigue – yep, all the time.
Manual load sheets – all the time.
Flight plan errors – finding these is part of your job I thought.
Cabin crew working different types – again, very common.
But my favorite from the document – FCOM on CD.
Goodness JQ are a mean and nasty bunch of people forcing pilots to study from a computer.
If you think that the aim of the game is ZERO accidents then you are sadly mistaken
200 hour cadet’s – been there, done that. Standard practice around the world.
Hard work with fatigue – yep, all the time.
Manual load sheets – all the time.
Flight plan errors – finding these is part of your job I thought.
Cabin crew working different types – again, very common.
But my favorite from the document – FCOM on CD.
Goodness JQ are a mean and nasty bunch of people forcing pilots to study from a computer.
If you think that the aim of the game is ZERO accidents then you are sadly mistaken
Stupid pontificating, nit picking, tossers!!!!!
I know that some of you understand exactly why the FAA mandated 1500 hrs. experience.
Do you know why it was done so quickly and with so little opposition from the rest of the industry?
The answer to that is SHAME, pure and simple.
Read the transcript linked below of the Colgan Buffalo crash CVR.
F**k the technical details -, you are listening to Two badly trained and inexperienced pilots, both badly paid and with money worries operating in rotten working conditions in a sick, cost cutting, corporate culture. For both of the pilots, this was "just a job", and a not very good one at that.
Do you want to be reading a similar transcript from a Jetstar or Qantas cockpit one day?
Read the full transcript and weep.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/418693.pdf
Extracts which just jumped out of the pages at me.
21:32:13.0
HOT-2
they didn't do a twenty four hour ice protection test.
21:35:15.0
HOT-2
I've written— I mean I've written other planes up before. just not from—
with Colgan.
21:35:59.0
HOT-1
that way if I screw up and write it up one way and it grounds the airplane
but it's not— it's not exactly or I could write it up slightly different to get an
MEL to get it back to where you can do maintenance type of deal.
21:46:22.0
HOT-1
right.
21:46:22.9
HOT-2
depending you know how— how long would it be to make that worth my
while. would it— would I make more money upgrading into the Saab right
away or would I make more money if I waited for the Q for a little while.
21:46:32.6
HOT-1
well think of it this way uh if you— if you stayed on the on the Q obviously
you're gonna— you're not making the captain rate.
21:46:42.0
HOT-2
right.
21:46:42.5
HOT-1
but you may have a better quality of life to begin with uhh with regards to
buying a house and having a schedule to where you you know you could
work around and you could be—
21:46:55.3
HOT-2
exactly.
21:46:55.6
HOT-1
you know home with your husband to to take care of all that kind of stuff.
........
21:47:13.5
HOT-2
just because I don't want to commute my whole life...so um once I do
upgrade you know once once Alaska starts hiring I don't— I mean I don't
necessarily have to have a thousand hours PIC. I need to have some PIC.
21:47:25.7
HOT-1
you don't have to with uh Alaska?
21:47:26.8
HOT-2
um it it depends. you you you do and on paper you do but it just— it it
depends who you know. if you know people then you can kind of sneak
away with it a little bit. I definitely need to have you know the proper
experience you need to be qualified. but if I have—.
21:47:36.6
HOT-1
huh...sure.
21:47:40.4
HOT-2
you know if at about five hundred hours they said to to go and interview
and then I can interview and they can say we want you to have a
thousand hours. so once you get a thousand hours um we're gonna put
you into ground school. they'll say stuff like that.
...21:48:27.2
HOT-1
uh not too far from where he lives. but uh.
21:48:36.3
HOT-2
yeah I wouldn't mind— you know I could even see myself doing like I
mean for quality of life I could see myself doing cargo stuff and just I
mean like small stuff like there's a company that flies right out of my
hometown to Spokane Washington and back every night.
21:48:36.7
HOT-1
that's just—.
21:48:49.5
HOT
[tones similar to ACARS message reception]
21:48:51.2
HOT-2
and I'd do that three nights a week and be home. I could have kids and
raise a family. and I think that that might be more worth my while.
something like that.
21:49:18.3
HOT-1
I've gotta do this. I've gotta— I'm ready to move on. um [sound similar to
yawn] excuse me. it's kind of like me. you know I started this this little gig
late in life.
21:49:28.7
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:28.9
HOT-1
oh it's like it's a second career for me basically because I— I was able to
take that package with Verizon.
21:49:34.1
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:35.5
HOT-1
but uh...you know it's...you know do I— g— at this point do I go to a major
and you know not be able to be there for very long.
.21:50:03.4
HOT-1
uh and just and and dwell upon the quality of life part of it or do I stay here
with Colgan and uh...
22:12:05.0
HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
I know that some of you understand exactly why the FAA mandated 1500 hrs. experience.
Do you know why it was done so quickly and with so little opposition from the rest of the industry?
The answer to that is SHAME, pure and simple.
Read the transcript linked below of the Colgan Buffalo crash CVR.
F**k the technical details -, you are listening to Two badly trained and inexperienced pilots, both badly paid and with money worries operating in rotten working conditions in a sick, cost cutting, corporate culture. For both of the pilots, this was "just a job", and a not very good one at that.
Do you want to be reading a similar transcript from a Jetstar or Qantas cockpit one day?
Read the full transcript and weep.
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation...027/418693.pdf
Extracts which just jumped out of the pages at me.
21:32:13.0
HOT-2
they didn't do a twenty four hour ice protection test.
21:35:15.0
HOT-2
I've written— I mean I've written other planes up before. just not from—
with Colgan.
21:35:59.0
HOT-1
that way if I screw up and write it up one way and it grounds the airplane
but it's not— it's not exactly or I could write it up slightly different to get an
MEL to get it back to where you can do maintenance type of deal.
21:46:22.0
HOT-1
right.
21:46:22.9
HOT-2
depending you know how— how long would it be to make that worth my
while. would it— would I make more money upgrading into the Saab right
away or would I make more money if I waited for the Q for a little while.
21:46:32.6
HOT-1
well think of it this way uh if you— if you stayed on the on the Q obviously
you're gonna— you're not making the captain rate.
21:46:42.0
HOT-2
right.
21:46:42.5
HOT-1
but you may have a better quality of life to begin with uhh with regards to
buying a house and having a schedule to where you you know you could
work around and you could be—
21:46:55.3
HOT-2
exactly.
21:46:55.6
HOT-1
you know home with your husband to to take care of all that kind of stuff.
........
21:47:13.5
HOT-2
just because I don't want to commute my whole life...so um once I do
upgrade you know once once Alaska starts hiring I don't— I mean I don't
necessarily have to have a thousand hours PIC. I need to have some PIC.
21:47:25.7
HOT-1
you don't have to with uh Alaska?
21:47:26.8
HOT-2
um it it depends. you you you do and on paper you do but it just— it it
depends who you know. if you know people then you can kind of sneak
away with it a little bit. I definitely need to have you know the proper
experience you need to be qualified. but if I have—.
21:47:36.6
HOT-1
huh...sure.
21:47:40.4
HOT-2
you know if at about five hundred hours they said to to go and interview
and then I can interview and they can say we want you to have a
thousand hours. so once you get a thousand hours um we're gonna put
you into ground school. they'll say stuff like that.
...21:48:27.2
HOT-1
uh not too far from where he lives. but uh.
21:48:36.3
HOT-2
yeah I wouldn't mind— you know I could even see myself doing like I
mean for quality of life I could see myself doing cargo stuff and just I
mean like small stuff like there's a company that flies right out of my
hometown to Spokane Washington and back every night.
21:48:36.7
HOT-1
that's just—.
21:48:49.5
HOT
[tones similar to ACARS message reception]
21:48:51.2
HOT-2
and I'd do that three nights a week and be home. I could have kids and
raise a family. and I think that that might be more worth my while.
something like that.
21:49:18.3
HOT-1
I've gotta do this. I've gotta— I'm ready to move on. um [sound similar to
yawn] excuse me. it's kind of like me. you know I started this this little gig
late in life.
21:49:28.7
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:28.9
HOT-1
oh it's like it's a second career for me basically because I— I was able to
take that package with Verizon.
21:49:34.1
HOT-2
yeah.
21:49:35.5
HOT-1
but uh...you know it's...you know do I— g— at this point do I go to a major
and you know not be able to be there for very long.
.21:50:03.4
HOT-1
uh and just and and dwell upon the quality of life part of it or do I stay here
with Colgan and uh...
22:12:05.0
HOT-2
I've never seen icing conditions. I've never deiced. I've never seen any—
I've never experienced any of that. I don't want to have to experience that
and make those kinds of calls. you know I'dve freaked out. I'dve have like
seen this much ice and thought oh my gosh we were going to crash.
Last edited by Sunfish; 15th Feb 2011 at 21:36.
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But as a member of Gen Y (who is not a Jetstar cadet) I like to think that it's a issue of Naivety from being young not being part of Gen Y.
Naivety in this case is a little hard to justify, if you are intelligent enough to get yourself a CPL, ME-CIR etc you should have the smarts to be able to workout how much of a rip off this scheme is.
It keeps coming back to the return on investment you are getting, at the end of 7 years (or whatever it is) who knows where pilot conditions will be?
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Passenger safety 'at risk due to cost cutting' | News.com.au
Training Costs......it just never ends, no wonder pilots get grumpy....
"The cadets at Jetstar I have just finished training, one of the cadets is getting paid in New Zealand dollars but is required to pay back his training in Australian dollars,'' he said.
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Passenger safety 'at risk due to cost cutting' | News.com.au
The comments on the above article are worth reading. If its any indication of wider public perceptions, it seems the general public can see past all the CEO smoke and mirrors.
The comments on the above article are worth reading. If its any indication of wider public perceptions, it seems the general public can see past all the CEO smoke and mirrors.
Sir Donald,
Easyjet operate 170 plus planes. Many many sectors.
Are you really painting the LCC model with some isolated example such as "the circling incident"? Every airline has a similar skeleton in the closet.
What’s the point? Move on, no statistics support the “Low salary pilot is more accident prone” money driven argument.
Look at who has goofed here in my neighborhood lately,
UPS FEDEX (numerous times) Continental Southwest American (twice)
Easyjet operate 170 plus planes. Many many sectors.
Are you really painting the LCC model with some isolated example such as "the circling incident"? Every airline has a similar skeleton in the closet.
What’s the point? Move on, no statistics support the “Low salary pilot is more accident prone” money driven argument.
Look at who has goofed here in my neighborhood lately,
UPS FEDEX (numerous times) Continental Southwest American (twice)
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oicur12.again,
Your post sums up your appreciation or knowledge of what this is all about and it ain't about priapism!(but don't hold back from paying for your so called job)
However feel free to take heed from Sunfish's post above.
Your post sums up your appreciation or knowledge of what this is all about and it ain't about priapism!(but don't hold back from paying for your so called job)
However feel free to take heed from Sunfish's post above.
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Hardly a whistleblower. Much like the last infamous article. There no revelation of illegal practices.
Some practices could be argued as unsafe, they would have to be argued. If the company is compling with the regulations, then they can throw it back on CASA.
One of the posts earlier aludes to AIPA having the foresight to see what was going to happen in the future. If AIPA had such foresight, they would have tried to represent J* pilots form the start. And then steered the pilot body on the directon that would have been most beneficial.
As for the Buffalo crash and the fact that the pilots had slept in crew rooms and had been awake for X number of hours. How many Emirates pilots would like to live in Australia and still fly for Emirates. I bet a lot. But the job is in Dubai, not Australia. If you want the job, then move there.
You all moved for G.A jobs over the years, but now you are an airline pilot, you should only have to live in the city of your choice. You guys bitch and whinge about Gen Y, have a look at yourselves.!
As for pay, $17000 as a starting salary in the U.S, and yet plenty of guys lining up for the jobs. We got along way to go before we are going to win the wage argument.
Stop foreign workers being allowed to fly in Australia under the guise of 'tag' flights, and you will go along way to stopping BB and J* march.
Some practices could be argued as unsafe, they would have to be argued. If the company is compling with the regulations, then they can throw it back on CASA.
One of the posts earlier aludes to AIPA having the foresight to see what was going to happen in the future. If AIPA had such foresight, they would have tried to represent J* pilots form the start. And then steered the pilot body on the directon that would have been most beneficial.
As for the Buffalo crash and the fact that the pilots had slept in crew rooms and had been awake for X number of hours. How many Emirates pilots would like to live in Australia and still fly for Emirates. I bet a lot. But the job is in Dubai, not Australia. If you want the job, then move there.
You all moved for G.A jobs over the years, but now you are an airline pilot, you should only have to live in the city of your choice. You guys bitch and whinge about Gen Y, have a look at yourselves.!
As for pay, $17000 as a starting salary in the U.S, and yet plenty of guys lining up for the jobs. We got along way to go before we are going to win the wage argument.
Stop foreign workers being allowed to fly in Australia under the guise of 'tag' flights, and you will go along way to stopping BB and J* march.