Merged: And another QF Roller goes bang
Greenslopes,
One one occasion this happened, the only symptom being high fuel flow on one engine, is was a fractured main fuel line under the engine.
RR had produced a batch that were seriously mis-manufactured, an AD resulted.
oh!! yawn, indeed, what's a major fuel leak or two between friends.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Sunfish is spot on again, with the "profit center" structure of QF, it's how well your profit center does that determines your bonus, not the overall cost to the company of your decision.
Add to that the situation that the company was restructured for easy disposal of whole sectors of the company after the (thankfully failed) taking the company private.
Despite all the smooth words about training etc., after the A380 accident, plans to effectively outsource crewing and training with short term contract pilots seems to be proceeding "as planned".
As mentioned elsewhere on pprune, recent deliveries of A330 have been to Singapore, and that is also where the B787 will go, whether they are operated in QF ore Jetstar colours.
One one occasion this happened, the only symptom being high fuel flow on one engine, is was a fractured main fuel line under the engine.
RR had produced a batch that were seriously mis-manufactured, an AD resulted.
oh!! yawn, indeed, what's a major fuel leak or two between friends.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Sunfish is spot on again, with the "profit center" structure of QF, it's how well your profit center does that determines your bonus, not the overall cost to the company of your decision.
Add to that the situation that the company was restructured for easy disposal of whole sectors of the company after the (thankfully failed) taking the company private.
Despite all the smooth words about training etc., after the A380 accident, plans to effectively outsource crewing and training with short term contract pilots seems to be proceeding "as planned".
As mentioned elsewhere on pprune, recent deliveries of A330 have been to Singapore, and that is also where the B787 will go, whether they are operated in QF ore Jetstar colours.
Last edited by LeadSled; 27th Jan 2011 at 01:19.
all this trash about third party maintenance. Where are the actual documented cases of incidents causing specific problems with QF?
QF made its own DH50's a few years back. Let's try that again.
The comments here are nothing more than jingoistic union slurs...
QF made its own DH50's a few years back. Let's try that again.
The comments here are nothing more than jingoistic union slurs...
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tbm you can no more prove it is trash than I can say it is a trend that appears to have begun after the engine shop closed.
Even a one eyed manager could see the rollers are causing way to much grief.
For Joe Bloggs getting stuffed around with 34 hour delays the chances of a link are quite real.If not it is one hell of a coincidence.
Whatever the reason it is going to cost bums in seats and jobs at best.
I await confirmation or otherwise.
Even a one eyed manager could see the rollers are causing way to much grief.
For Joe Bloggs getting stuffed around with 34 hour delays the chances of a link are quite real.If not it is one hell of a coincidence.
Whatever the reason it is going to cost bums in seats and jobs at best.
I await confirmation or otherwise.
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As Sunfish termed 'sub optimisation' our managers reasoning was not that he wanted to save the APU's but was actually the cost of the diesel that powered the GPU's came from his business unit budget, and the cost of the fuel the APU would burn came from the operations business unit budget.....go figure!!
It would appear that Qantas is suffering from much the same flawed management techniques, with nobody actually looking at the wider view.
It would appear that Qantas is suffering from much the same flawed management techniques, with nobody actually looking at the wider view.
This is a current but foolish method of managing a business within an airline and it would seem as others have already pointed out - the chickens have come home to roost in this case.
Many of this airlines current and escalating issues had 'the seeds sewn' 8 years ago at the top tier by it's scissor wielding predecessor.
The hilarious thing is that when the current spiral finaly hits rock bottom, the shareholders will be screaming for blood, the little fella will get rolled and some so-called genius will be brought in to try and fix things. But it will take years to pull this mess out of it's hole, it always does.
Folks, this bumpy ride is far from over.
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Sad they made the decision to close what had been a great EM facility at Mascot . RR reps acknowledged that as did the GE and PWA guys . QF management lst interest and the will to fight to keep it open . It needed money spent to update to comply with environmental issues and OH&S , but the killer blow was the upgrade to the test cell for the A380 Trent engines , when this could not be built the place had no future . But , they could have kept it going until the RB211 fleet retired along with me and my mates . Ah well , such is life , it was a great palce to work in its heyday , real trade unionists , men and women of principle , who had pride in the job they did and got satisfaction out of the contribution they made . We , fought for our lot but never hated the Company as sadly seems to be the case these days . Never , bite the hand that feeds you guys !
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TBM-Legend
Here is what the Yanks think about a USA MRO (owned by SIA). It is not just the QF guys that realise something is rotten with the Outsourced MRO world.
Just push them through regardless, because you dare not hold up the line. Besides, it not your company's aircraft.
Take from it what you will.
Just push them through regardless, because you dare not hold up the line. Besides, it not your company's aircraft.
Take from it what you will.
Last edited by Short_Circuit; 29th Jan 2011 at 22:57. Reason: Missed post 41 some how
I've seen this. If you outsource then you better have a quality system that effectively monitors the whole show. I can give you plenty of examples of major screw-ups done in Australia too.
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Here is what the Yanks think about a USA MRO
It is not just the QF guys that realise something is rotten
Just interested, How do people feel if; Q found a MRO partner, willing to set up in OZ, say do a 50 50 deal, call it Qtech or something like that, and employ Australians. Would that be accepted by the industry as a way to remedy the outsourcing concerns?
As I read these threads of late, it appears to be an overwhelming opinion both in the industry and on the street, QF needs to do something quickly and revisit the notion of investing in on-shore engineering capabilities to rebuild the perception "QF is dropping its ball" in this area of the company. I suppose joining with a credible MRO partner may be a cheaper option for the "bean counters" to consider rather than doing it outright.. I doubt outright would be an option this current lot would even consider.
Personally I think they need to invest in their own facilities, and create an environment of excellence.
Put it on their website, put it on their tickets, write it on the side of every aeroplane. "We proudly maintain 100% of our fleet in Australia".
Australians are very patriotic, and try to buy local if informed and given the opportunity. I'm sure you could educate the market very easily, and almost make it seem 'upper class' or a status symbol if you fly Qantas.
I bet in time Qantas could almost charge a surcharge for local maintenance if they market it the right way.
All they need is someone with a little vision to turn the place around. It's a pity they let him go to VB
Put it on their website, put it on their tickets, write it on the side of every aeroplane. "We proudly maintain 100% of our fleet in Australia".
Australians are very patriotic, and try to buy local if informed and given the opportunity. I'm sure you could educate the market very easily, and almost make it seem 'upper class' or a status symbol if you fly Qantas.
I bet in time Qantas could almost charge a surcharge for local maintenance if they market it the right way.
All they need is someone with a little vision to turn the place around. It's a pity they let him go to VB
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Personally I think they need to invest in their own facilities, and create an environment of excellence.
Put it on their website, put it on their tickets, write it on the side of every aeroplane. "We proudly maintain 100% of our fleet in Australia".
Put it on their website, put it on their tickets, write it on the side of every aeroplane. "We proudly maintain 100% of our fleet in Australia".
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TIM isn't that called HM in Avalon?
Things will never get better when management keeping thinking they can run engineering departments as "profitable"
Why does CN and the other keep saying to me we need to make this place profitable.
Im sorry but I just don't get how they are thinking, last time I took my car to get serviced I never made a profit
Engineering and maintenance a cost FFS
Things will never get better when management keeping thinking they can run engineering departments as "profitable"
Why does CN and the other keep saying to me we need to make this place profitable.
Im sorry but I just don't get how they are thinking, last time I took my car to get serviced I never made a profit
Engineering and maintenance a cost FFS
The problem is compounded in Australia because of the age of the fleet.
If your tax system encourages you to keep an aircraft for say Ten years, then flog it, why would you do more than the bare minimum maintenance, and why would you care where it gets done?
What Qantas may be setting itself up for is an Ansett MkII style demise because its fleet is older and hence may have age related issues.
The day may come when the travelling public and CASA realise that QF has lost control of its maintenance system and can no longer guarantee that its aircraft comply with maintenance and overhaul directions.
That is what killed Ansett. If you read the ATSB report between the lines, you will understand that the B767 cracking AD non compliance was just the tip of the iceberg. Ansett's system of maintenance was so broken that it could not prove to the regulator that any of its aircraft were being maintained correctly.
I don't think QF is there just yet, but a few cuts in the engineering planning area, a little bit of creative paperwork by outsourcing operators and voila! You wake up one morning and your AOC is pulled.
To put it another way, has the Qantas Board in its risk management strategy, considered what happens when a Chinese whistle blower emerges from an MRO Qantas relies on and provides credible evidence of widespread systematic fraud - perhaps in relation to non genuine spare parts for example?
God knows that Westerners have succumbed to such temptations before. The temptation in China must be absolutely overwhelming. For example, can you imagine the nightmare that would ensue if counterfeit aviation fasteners were discovered in China??
FAKE PARTS ARE SEEPING INTO MILITARY AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE DEPOTS PDF ebook online
If your tax system encourages you to keep an aircraft for say Ten years, then flog it, why would you do more than the bare minimum maintenance, and why would you care where it gets done?
What Qantas may be setting itself up for is an Ansett MkII style demise because its fleet is older and hence may have age related issues.
The day may come when the travelling public and CASA realise that QF has lost control of its maintenance system and can no longer guarantee that its aircraft comply with maintenance and overhaul directions.
That is what killed Ansett. If you read the ATSB report between the lines, you will understand that the B767 cracking AD non compliance was just the tip of the iceberg. Ansett's system of maintenance was so broken that it could not prove to the regulator that any of its aircraft were being maintained correctly.
I don't think QF is there just yet, but a few cuts in the engineering planning area, a little bit of creative paperwork by outsourcing operators and voila! You wake up one morning and your AOC is pulled.
To put it another way, has the Qantas Board in its risk management strategy, considered what happens when a Chinese whistle blower emerges from an MRO Qantas relies on and provides credible evidence of widespread systematic fraud - perhaps in relation to non genuine spare parts for example?
God knows that Westerners have succumbed to such temptations before. The temptation in China must be absolutely overwhelming. For example, can you imagine the nightmare that would ensue if counterfeit aviation fasteners were discovered in China??
FAKE PARTS ARE SEEPING INTO MILITARY AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE DEPOTS PDF ebook online
Last edited by Sunfish; 29th Jan 2011 at 20:39.
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QF finding a 50/50 MRO partner, willing to set up in OZ,
Offshoring isn’t working and going back from where we came, wasn't competitive.
No reason QF couldn’t brand it by owning 51% of Qantas Technical, with the other 49% being owned by independent Australian Investors and those who work there.
Competing airlines may not like the idea, but assuming the unit cost is sharp, reliability better than the offshored competition and control at arm’s length, any such entity could ultimately become something they too come to support.
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What Qantas may be setting itself up for is an Ansett MkII style demise
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Dec, 2007
Qantas and MAS Aerospace Engineering, a subsidiary of Malaysia Airlines, Dec. 19 signed a memorandum of understanding to establish a joint venture airframe MRO company in Malaysia.
And how did that end... not good
Qantas and MAS Aerospace Engineering, a subsidiary of Malaysia Airlines, Dec. 19 signed a memorandum of understanding to establish a joint venture airframe MRO company in Malaysia.
And how did that end... not good
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I concur with Sunfish, for QF it is not a case of when, but how whole maintenence issue falls into a heap, that CASA has to act on.
As I said "Tick, Tock"
As I said "Tick, Tock"