View Poll Results: Would you willingly submit to full body scanning, should it be introduced?
Yes
82
10.12%
No
685
84.57%
Undecided
43
5.31%
Voters: 810. This poll is closed
Body Scanners: Will you go for the genital feel up or the nude photos and a cancer?
A New Zealander who was held up at Heathrow Airport for a day after refusing to get a body scan is returning home after being put onto another flight.
Aucklander James Holder, 28, was selected at random for additional security screening after walking through the metal detector without disruption on Wednesday.
The X-ray devices can detect weapons and explosive devices concealed on the body by creating a naked image of the subject.
The scanners were installed at London Heathrow and Manchester airports in February after a failed 2009 Christmas Day bombing attempt and are being tested for further use on the public.
The body scans are causing heated debate in the United States, where the Transportation Security Administration expanded the use of full-body image scanners that use low levels of radiation to create what looks like a nude image of the screened passenger to detect hidden weapons or contraband.
The TSA has also begun implementing a more aggressive pat-down search technique at security checkpoints.
Mr Holder was in Europe for work and was on his way home when he was selected for scanning this week. He said he politely refused the scan.
He said it was a step too far in personal invasion and he did not wish to see it enforced upon every traveller.
"It's the principle that gets me. Some dodgy looking security officer inspecting my nude body on the screen magnifying areas that are of interest. What happens if they make this the standard procedure?"
He was happy to be stripped, searched, and patted down, but British airport security told him that was no longer a choice.
"Apparently it's the body scanner or nothing ... The law it seems offers no rights to another option."
Mr Holder was taken back to the airline desk and told he could not depart for New Zealand until officials allowed him through security again.
"The airline staff, while sympathetic, couldn't override the security officers."
He was not a prude but drew the line at a device that allowed someone to display live naked images at whim, he said.
In New Zealand the body scanners are prohibited under the Aviation Crimes Act.
Aucklander James Holder, 28, was selected at random for additional security screening after walking through the metal detector without disruption on Wednesday.
The X-ray devices can detect weapons and explosive devices concealed on the body by creating a naked image of the subject.
The scanners were installed at London Heathrow and Manchester airports in February after a failed 2009 Christmas Day bombing attempt and are being tested for further use on the public.
The body scans are causing heated debate in the United States, where the Transportation Security Administration expanded the use of full-body image scanners that use low levels of radiation to create what looks like a nude image of the screened passenger to detect hidden weapons or contraband.
The TSA has also begun implementing a more aggressive pat-down search technique at security checkpoints.
Mr Holder was in Europe for work and was on his way home when he was selected for scanning this week. He said he politely refused the scan.
He said it was a step too far in personal invasion and he did not wish to see it enforced upon every traveller.
"It's the principle that gets me. Some dodgy looking security officer inspecting my nude body on the screen magnifying areas that are of interest. What happens if they make this the standard procedure?"
He was happy to be stripped, searched, and patted down, but British airport security told him that was no longer a choice.
"Apparently it's the body scanner or nothing ... The law it seems offers no rights to another option."
Mr Holder was taken back to the airline desk and told he could not depart for New Zealand until officials allowed him through security again.
"The airline staff, while sympathetic, couldn't override the security officers."
He was not a prude but drew the line at a device that allowed someone to display live naked images at whim, he said.
In New Zealand the body scanners are prohibited under the Aviation Crimes Act.
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/11/25/body-scanners-headed-trains-ships-mass-transit/
"We need more cancer, I mean scanners."
"We need more cancer, I mean scanners."
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I would opt for the feel up rather than the radiation scan. I would demand for it to be done by a female security officer (the cutest one possible). It would be a pleasurable experience and would make my day before my flight.
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I agree with your logic, but WHERE are you zgoint to find a cute security officer. They tend to be very "butch" and old. Dame Edna puts them to shame.
Most of the males are more attractive.
Most of the males are more attractive.
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At the 38 second mark listen carefully. Seems Delta are onto it, I wonder what they will do with their future adverts now the TSA have pissed off the travelling public a whole heap more.
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The successful capture and arrest of a Somali born would be terrorist in the US over the weekend demonstrates how terrorists are detected; generally with excellent ground work by talented, well trained intelligence people in operations that take months, not by cut price contractors 'randomly' irradiating/groping passengers and staff at airports. Good luck to those agents and tech geeks, they are expected to be right every time and so far the worldwide track record is pretty good. 
Given that the accused was intent on blowing up a public Christmas gathering with no security whatsoever, is Albanese going to introduce random frisk searches at every major Carols By Candlelight across the country? After all, someone in the US attempted it, so it must be a risk, right? One we can fix with a bunch of potentially harmful and degrading 'security' measures?
The trouble is that the snivelling politicians aren't allowed to talk about the Intelligence agencies' spookier activities and can't turn them into big, jazzy press releases of the 'Look at me, I'm such an awesome Minister' variety.
At the end of the day I think that's all this is about.
Given that the accused was intent on blowing up a public Christmas gathering with no security whatsoever, is Albanese going to introduce random frisk searches at every major Carols By Candlelight across the country? After all, someone in the US attempted it, so it must be a risk, right? One we can fix with a bunch of potentially harmful and degrading 'security' measures?
The trouble is that the snivelling politicians aren't allowed to talk about the Intelligence agencies' spookier activities and can't turn them into big, jazzy press releases of the 'Look at me, I'm such an awesome Minister' variety.
At the end of the day I think that's all this is about.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 30th Nov 2010 at 11:11.
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Reactive vs Proactive
Worrals, please stop coming up with these common-sense arguments. They have no place in our society.
As per the first post in this thread - This country is run by people that create populist policies that will somehow keep them in a job. The entire system is based on gaining and keeping a seat and not on actual solution that will work.
Every time a terrorist comes up with a new plan (there are an infinite number no doubt), the pollies will come up with another restriction/idea/"plan". In the end air travel will become so restrictive that people will begin to look to other methods if possible.
High speed rail MEL SYD would be the end of that route.
As per the first post in this thread - This country is run by people that create populist policies that will somehow keep them in a job. The entire system is based on gaining and keeping a seat and not on actual solution that will work.
Every time a terrorist comes up with a new plan (there are an infinite number no doubt), the pollies will come up with another restriction/idea/"plan". In the end air travel will become so restrictive that people will begin to look to other methods if possible.
High speed rail MEL SYD would be the end of that route.
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and here is what people are thinking
Told you so.
The clock is ticking on our congested, crappy airports and security fun and games.
Fortunately for us regardless of the party its unlikely to get done in a hurry!
The clock is ticking on our congested, crappy airports and security fun and games.
Fortunately for us regardless of the party its unlikely to get done in a hurry!
All We Need For Christmas Is A Very Fast Train | Lifehacker Australia
By Angus Kidman on November 29, 2010 at 11:30 AM
The concept of some sort of very fast train (VFT) service connecting major cities is endlessly discussed in Australia, but nothing ever seems to happen. Why can’t we get this concept moving?
Picture by Thierry Llansades
Last week I travelled to Perth to attend the Ausrail conference, the annual gathering at which Australia’s various rail industry companies and bodies get together and discuss the state of railways. There’s a lot of bodies to represent, because rail in Australia still largely runs on state lines, reflecting the unfortunate decision made in the 1800s to install different gauges across the country. That lack of Victorian-era foresight is still impacting on rail planning in the 21st century, despite the recognised benefits of trains in terms of environmental impact compared to most alternatives.
While there are railway lines of some description in every state of Australia, it would be hard to describe us as a model of efficient train usage. Once you leave the eastern seaboard, there are no train services which passengers can take outside of a capital city which offer other connections within the same state. The Indian Pacific, Ghan and Overlander services offer interstate connections for tourists, but don’t remotely resemble a general use service. Within capital cities, there’s something going in in every mainland state, and even a handful of free options, but no-one who lives in Melbourne or Sydney would argue that those public transport systems work particularly well.
The bulk of Australia’s $35 billion rail industry comprises freight, and that makes sense — anything that can remove trucks from the roads is a good idea. But one of the more compelling ideas pushed at Ausrail is also one of the oldest: introducing a high-speed train service to connect our capital cities and other major centres, enabling passengers to skip long drives or cramped flights to move around.
Using fast train systems developed elsewhere in the world, a high-speed line between Melbourne and Sydney could run in just three hours. For all practical purposes, that’s faster than flying (given the need to get to the airport and to arrive considerably in advance). And there’s plenty of demand on the route: Sydney-Melbourne is the fourth-busiest air route in the world, with more than 950 flights a week. Sydney to Brisbane and the Gold Coast isn’t far behind, with a combined total of more than 830 each week.
In global terms, introducing a simple service connecting two or three capitals is remarkably unambitious. China’s plans for a national fast rail network, which it only began planning in 1994, includes 16,000 kilometres of new lines and aims to connect every city with a population of 200,000 people or more. An equivalent list of cities in Australia would include Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Canberra, the Gold Coast, the Sunshine Coast, Newcastle, Wollongong and the Central Coast. There are trains of some sort in all those cities, but nothing resembling a high-speed connection between any of them.
As I’ve said before when discussing public transport, it’s unlikely and unfeasible that Australians can abandon their reliance on motor vehicles. But if we can reduce our usage, it will make a difference. To note another figure often quoted at Ausrail: transport is responsible for 15% of Australia’s carbon emissions, and 89% of that figure comes from motor vehicles.
Lifehacker Australia editor Angus Kidman likes a slow train trip as much as the next tourist, but not when there’s stuff to do and no 3G signal to be had. His Road Worrier column, looking at technology and organising tips for travellers, appears each week on Lifehacker.
By Angus Kidman on November 29, 2010 at 11:30 AM
The concept of some sort of very fast train (VFT) service connecting major cities is endlessly discussed in Australia, but nothing ever seems to happen. Why can’t we get this concept moving?
Picture by Thierry Llansades
Last week I travelled to Perth to attend the Ausrail conference, the annual gathering at which Australia’s various rail industry companies and bodies get together and discuss the state of railways. There’s a lot of bodies to represent, because rail in Australia still largely runs on state lines, reflecting the unfortunate decision made in the 1800s to install different gauges across the country. That lack of Victorian-era foresight is still impacting on rail planning in the 21st century, despite the recognised benefits of trains in terms of environmental impact compared to most alternatives.
While there are railway lines of some description in every state of Australia, it would be hard to describe us as a model of efficient train usage. Once you leave the eastern seaboard, there are no train services which passengers can take outside of a capital city which offer other connections within the same state. The Indian Pacific, Ghan and Overlander services offer interstate connections for tourists, but don’t remotely resemble a general use service. Within capital cities, there’s something going in in every mainland state, and even a handful of free options, but no-one who lives in Melbourne or Sydney would argue that those public transport systems work particularly well.
The bulk of Australia’s $35 billion rail industry comprises freight, and that makes sense — anything that can remove trucks from the roads is a good idea. But one of the more compelling ideas pushed at Ausrail is also one of the oldest: introducing a high-speed train service to connect our capital cities and other major centres, enabling passengers to skip long drives or cramped flights to move around.
Using fast train systems developed elsewhere in the world, a high-speed line between Melbourne and Sydney could run in just three hours. For all practical purposes, that’s faster than flying (given the need to get to the airport and to arrive considerably in advance). And there’s plenty of demand on the route: Sydney-Melbourne is the fourth-busiest air route in the world, with more than 950 flights a week. Sydney to Brisbane and the Gold Coast isn’t far behind, with a combined total of more than 830 each week.
In global terms, introducing a simple service connecting two or three capitals is remarkably unambitious. China’s plans for a national fast rail network, which it only began planning in 1994, includes 16,000 kilometres of new lines and aims to connect every city with a population of 200,000 people or more. An equivalent list of cities in Australia would include Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Perth, Adelaide, Canberra, the Gold Coast, the Sunshine Coast, Newcastle, Wollongong and the Central Coast. There are trains of some sort in all those cities, but nothing resembling a high-speed connection between any of them.
As I’ve said before when discussing public transport, it’s unlikely and unfeasible that Australians can abandon their reliance on motor vehicles. But if we can reduce our usage, it will make a difference. To note another figure often quoted at Ausrail: transport is responsible for 15% of Australia’s carbon emissions, and 89% of that figure comes from motor vehicles.
Lifehacker Australia editor Angus Kidman likes a slow train trip as much as the next tourist, but not when there’s stuff to do and no 3G signal to be had. His Road Worrier column, looking at technology and organising tips for travellers, appears each week on Lifehacker.
Mr Hat:
really? I suspect it would be pretty easy to find somewhere along 800km of track to tamper and have pretty bad consequences for a high speed train - a security solution? depends what you're selling.
High speed rail MEL SYD would be the end of that route.
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Indeed maggot but I don't see any lines at security at train stations nor any plans for body scanners.
Our industry attracts media attention thus we need as many pretend measures as possible.
My point i that there will be a point where to get from Melbourne to Sydney will at some point get all too hard and if there happens to be a high speed alternative people will take it.
Our industry attracts media attention thus we need as many pretend measures as possible.
My point i that there will be a point where to get from Melbourne to Sydney will at some point get all too hard and if there happens to be a high speed alternative people will take it.
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This has got to be one of the greatest ideas I've heard.......and I'm sure that someone could figure out how to do it!
Here's a simple solution to the controversy over full-body scanners at airports:
Develop an enclosed booth that passengers step into but, instead of X-raying them, when the door closes, it will detonate any explosive device they have hidden on or in their body. The explosion will be contained within the sealed booth. This would be a win-win for everyone!
There would be no concern about racial profiling. The booth would eliminate long, expensive trials.
You're in the airport and you hear a muffled explosion, followed by an announcement over the PA system: "Attention standby passengers, we now have a seat available on flight number..."
What's not to like?!?!?!
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Mr Hat I redirect you to my link from last week.
Napolitano Eyes Tighter Security for Trains, Ships, Mass Transit - FoxNews.com
A VFT will result in the same security delays as flying except a stop in AY no doubt and the fact that its over an hour longer travel time.
Not to mention the glaringly obvious risk involved with travelling 300+km/h along the ground for 3 hours. A train crash at 300 or a plane crash at 300 is a crash at 300 and chances of surviving are next to nil. At least in a plane you're only close to obstacles for 30mins of travel time, regardless of distance.
Napolitano Eyes Tighter Security for Trains, Ships, Mass Transit - FoxNews.com
A VFT will result in the same security delays as flying except a stop in AY no doubt and the fact that its over an hour longer travel time.
Not to mention the glaringly obvious risk involved with travelling 300+km/h along the ground for 3 hours. A train crash at 300 or a plane crash at 300 is a crash at 300 and chances of surviving are next to nil. At least in a plane you're only close to obstacles for 30mins of travel time, regardless of distance.
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The Euros run high speed trains without big security hassles. There's basic X-ray / magnetometer stuff, but there weren't any big delays on the British, French or Spanish systems when I used them, anyway. The Spanish have legitimate terrorist problems (and had a railway station blown up in 2004) but they still don't go in for OTT security.
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Given that the accused was intent on blowing up a public Christmas gathering with no security whatsoever, is Albanese going to introduce random frisk searches at every major Carols By Candlelight across the country?
Good capture! 
First, he'll (they'll) take a sly poll to see what the public think, then they'll try and scramble a policy together, announce it, wait for the response... then run with it if no one was listening or didn't hear properly.
The way Victoria has swung big time, I can't see them meandering around in office too much longer.
The radiation we put up with on a daily basis is enough to worry me. For example, Pilots & Doctor/Nurses constantly around radiation have a propensity to give birth to daughters. We have changed natural selection already enough, through what we put up with. No more radiation for me.
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And have a read of this........ how Ironic 
Weasel Zippers Blog Archive Rest Assured my Friends, We’re Now Safe From the Scourge of Wheelchair-Bound Nun’s Thanks to the TSA…
Weasel Zippers Blog Archive Rest Assured my Friends, We’re Now Safe From the Scourge of Wheelchair-Bound Nun’s Thanks to the TSA…
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Wheelchair-bound woman in hour search - The West Australian
Wheelchair-bound woman in hour search
The United States extreme airport security measures have been exposed again when it emerged that a 52-year-old wheelchair-bound woman was hand-searched for more than an hour, even though she was already stripped to her bra and underwear.
The passenger missed her flight from Oklahoma City airport because of the lengthy ordeal.
Tammy Banovac arrived at the airport for a flight to Phoenix dressed only in a trench coat, which she removed for security, over her black undergarments, Britain's Daily Mail reported.
Ms Banovac said she knew her wheelchair would be a problem and set off airport sensors. That, combined with an uncomfortable airport search two weeks ago which she said left her feeling violated, had prompted her to take the extraordinary step of attempting to beat the airport pat downs.
She said that the previous pat-down would have been considered sexual assault if had occurred anywhere but at an airport.
An airport spokesman said Ms Banovac was searched because she refused to go through the metal detector.
The situation became more serious for Ms Banovac when security officers found traces of nitrates, which can be used to make explosives, on her wheelchair.
She said that could have been as a result of a recent hunting trip.
But the mere hint of the potentially explosive material sparked an hour of hand searches and questioning from officers, the Daily Mail reported.
She went home and then repeated the security process and pat-down on Wednesday, again in just her underwear. This time, after no explosive traces were found, she was able to board her plane.
Travellers in the US are becoming increasingly angry at the pat-down searches and invasive scanners which have recently been introduced.
In one case as woman reported she was humiliated after a body scanner showed her sanitary liner and led to a very personal underwear search by an officer.
The United States extreme airport security measures have been exposed again when it emerged that a 52-year-old wheelchair-bound woman was hand-searched for more than an hour, even though she was already stripped to her bra and underwear.
The passenger missed her flight from Oklahoma City airport because of the lengthy ordeal.
Tammy Banovac arrived at the airport for a flight to Phoenix dressed only in a trench coat, which she removed for security, over her black undergarments, Britain's Daily Mail reported.
Ms Banovac said she knew her wheelchair would be a problem and set off airport sensors. That, combined with an uncomfortable airport search two weeks ago which she said left her feeling violated, had prompted her to take the extraordinary step of attempting to beat the airport pat downs.
She said that the previous pat-down would have been considered sexual assault if had occurred anywhere but at an airport.
An airport spokesman said Ms Banovac was searched because she refused to go through the metal detector.
The situation became more serious for Ms Banovac when security officers found traces of nitrates, which can be used to make explosives, on her wheelchair.
She said that could have been as a result of a recent hunting trip.
But the mere hint of the potentially explosive material sparked an hour of hand searches and questioning from officers, the Daily Mail reported.
She went home and then repeated the security process and pat-down on Wednesday, again in just her underwear. This time, after no explosive traces were found, she was able to board her plane.
Travellers in the US are becoming increasingly angry at the pat-down searches and invasive scanners which have recently been introduced.
In one case as woman reported she was humiliated after a body scanner showed her sanitary liner and led to a very personal underwear search by an officer.
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I hope this is just the beginning...... because there will be thousands of folk like me who would seriously not be going back any time soon. Just been discussing the next OSH trip and others......Broome is looking better 
via RetardAir.
Qantas miss out some more too!....err sorry V Oz.
via RetardAir.Qantas miss out some more too!....err sorry V Oz.