Renamed & Merged: Qantas Severe Engine Damage Over Indonesia
Alan Joyce was just interviewed at length by Richard Glover on ABC702 in Sydney. I don't give a rat's about what anyone else might tink but I reckon that Alan was truly impressive and credible. He will be travelling on QF31 next Saturday as an expression of confidence in those who maintain and fly the A380. 
It's a great shame dat he and a couple of his senior execs aren't heard a lot more instead of the L-platers that pass for PR experts usually seen and heard.
Onya Alan!
It's a great shame dat he and a couple of his senior execs aren't heard a lot more instead of the L-platers that pass for PR experts usually seen and heard.
Onya Alan!
Who would have thought the day would come when the CEO of QANTAS has to travel on an aircraft ... just to prove it's safe.
Reminds me of the barnstorming days ! ... and no, I wasn't there.
Reminds me of the barnstorming days ! ... and no, I wasn't there.
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As a QF frequent flyer member, got this in the email today:
Dear Mr XXXXX Your Frequent Flyer number: XXXXX
Current points balance: XXXXXX
I am pleased to advise that Qantas will resume A380 services, commencing with an initial A380 service to London via Singapore on Saturday 27 November.
We have undertaken a rigorous inspection program in conjunction with Rolls Royce and Airbus to ensure the fleet is ready to return to service.
We always put safety first, and we continue to take a conservative approach to the reintroduction of the A380 fleet. So we will initially operate the A380 between Australia and the United Kingdom. As more A380s come into service, we will assess when and how best to deploy them.
I want to assure you that we have full confidence in our A380 aircraft fleet, and will not fly any individual aircraft unless we are completely sure that it is safe to do so.
Qantas has six A380s in its fleet, and is scheduled to take delivery of two new A380s before the end of this year, and a further two next year. With our fleet of more than 250 aircraft, we are able to maintain a full international and domestic network, so you can book and fly with us with confidence.
I want to thank you for your loyalty and patience. On behalf of all of us at Qantas we deeply regret any inconvenience. We look forward to welcoming you warmly when next you fly.
ALAN JOYCE
Qantas Chief Executive Officer
Current points balance: XXXXXX
I am pleased to advise that Qantas will resume A380 services, commencing with an initial A380 service to London via Singapore on Saturday 27 November.
We have undertaken a rigorous inspection program in conjunction with Rolls Royce and Airbus to ensure the fleet is ready to return to service.
We always put safety first, and we continue to take a conservative approach to the reintroduction of the A380 fleet. So we will initially operate the A380 between Australia and the United Kingdom. As more A380s come into service, we will assess when and how best to deploy them.
I want to assure you that we have full confidence in our A380 aircraft fleet, and will not fly any individual aircraft unless we are completely sure that it is safe to do so.
Qantas has six A380s in its fleet, and is scheduled to take delivery of two new A380s before the end of this year, and a further two next year. With our fleet of more than 250 aircraft, we are able to maintain a full international and domestic network, so you can book and fly with us with confidence.
I want to thank you for your loyalty and patience. On behalf of all of us at Qantas we deeply regret any inconvenience. We look forward to welcoming you warmly when next you fly.
ALAN JOYCE
Qantas Chief Executive Officer
Power by the Hour?
Hello?
Who holds the Air Operators Certificate?
Who is authorized to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines and the aircraft airframe and systems?
Who is responsible to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines?
How are these authority and responsibility functions ensured by the Operator?
Can this authority and responsibility be delegated to a third party company or consultant?
Hello?
Who holds the Air Operators Certificate?
Who is authorized to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines and the aircraft airframe and systems?
Who is responsible to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines?
How are these authority and responsibility functions ensured by the Operator?
Can this authority and responsibility be delegated to a third party company or consultant?
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@flexible response
Power by the Hour?
A commercial arrangement that spreads the cost of purchase, spares and oerhauls over the lifecycle of the engine.
Hello?
Hello!
Who holds the Air Operators Certificate?
The operator - Qantas in this case.
Who is authorized to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines and the aircraft airframe and systems?
Qantas.
Who is responsible to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines?
Qantas.
How are these authority and responsibility functions ensured by the Operator?
By their quality system and CAME (or equivalent).
Can this authority and responsibility be delegated to a third party company or consultant?
You can sub-contract work but not control or accountability, and why would you want to when you reliability, safety and reputation are on the line? Of course if you have a poor safety culture you blame others.
Power by the Hour?
A commercial arrangement that spreads the cost of purchase, spares and oerhauls over the lifecycle of the engine.
Hello?
Hello!
Who holds the Air Operators Certificate?
The operator - Qantas in this case.
Who is authorized to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines and the aircraft airframe and systems?
Qantas.
Who is responsible to ensure the continuing airworthiness of the engines?
Qantas.
How are these authority and responsibility functions ensured by the Operator?
By their quality system and CAME (or equivalent).
Can this authority and responsibility be delegated to a third party company or consultant?
You can sub-contract work but not control or accountability, and why would you want to when you reliability, safety and reputation are on the line? Of course if you have a poor safety culture you blame others.
FlexibleResponse
If you look where we work, our employer has the same “Power By the Hour” with RR and GE. Even our APU’s are on a “Power By the Hour” arrangement.
If you look where we work, our employer has the same “Power By the Hour” with RR and GE. Even our APU’s are on a “Power By the Hour” arrangement.
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Oh-Wow, Oh................/OK..
FlexResponse/Shell Mgt/ probably 404 more:
Could you please expand/explain, ref: 3rd Party Suppliers - and how (& if you like whom, you both work for......), that "we/whom you work for ", stress test and Real Time Verify the integrity of our 'Preferred Supplier' & product delivered, as to our satisfaction/& thus compliance with our responsibilities .........
Apologies, guess I'm getting Old- no dig, but keen to understand how you see it and indeed how it now 'Works'..................
Rgds
S28
FlexResponse/Shell Mgt/ probably 404 more:
Could you please expand/explain, ref: 3rd Party Suppliers - and how (& if you like whom, you both work for......), that "we/whom you work for ", stress test and Real Time Verify the integrity of our 'Preferred Supplier' & product delivered, as to our satisfaction/& thus compliance with our responsibilities .........
Apologies, guess I'm getting Old- no dig, but keen to understand how you see it and indeed how it now 'Works'..................
Rgds
S28
Section28- BE
I can’t speak for “Shell Management” but a quick search of both Flex and my past posts will reveal who we work for.
I really don’t have an opinion on “Power By The Hour” where I work and its legal ramifications regarding our AOC and the regulator. I'm not an engineer.
I can’t speak for “Shell Management” but a quick search of both Flex and my past posts will reveal who we work for.
I really don’t have an opinion on “Power By The Hour” where I work and its legal ramifications regarding our AOC and the regulator. I'm not an engineer.
I have postured specific and somewhat rhetorical questions for very good reasons.
Already the speculation is that Qantas had no idea about the modified parts in the new Trent engines that addressed the failure mode that led to the event experienced in SIN. Apparently, Rolls forgot to tell them and Qantas has lost the expertise to self-monitor in this department...
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with power by the hour...but systems must be in place to ENSURE that continuing airworthiness is maintained by the OPERATOR and AOC holder.
This function CANNOT be delegated.
...nobody should go whinging that Rolls has dropped the ball...Rolls are neither the OPERATOR or AOC holder and their sole responsibility is in making the best profit they possibly can for Rolls shareholders.
I leave the rest of the crumbs for the masses to argue over...
Already the speculation is that Qantas had no idea about the modified parts in the new Trent engines that addressed the failure mode that led to the event experienced in SIN. Apparently, Rolls forgot to tell them and Qantas has lost the expertise to self-monitor in this department...
There is nothing intrinsically wrong with power by the hour...but systems must be in place to ENSURE that continuing airworthiness is maintained by the OPERATOR and AOC holder.
This function CANNOT be delegated.
...nobody should go whinging that Rolls has dropped the ball...Rolls are neither the OPERATOR or AOC holder and their sole responsibility is in making the best profit they possibly can for Rolls shareholders.
I leave the rest of the crumbs for the masses to argue over...
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Flex don't entirely agree that Rolls is without blame here - but certainly even more disturbing is the allegation that "Q did not know" - given this is a new a/c type and there are not too many in the skies, one would have thought the claim of ignorance on the part of Q is far from an acceptable defence. - especially given that:
The local council does not build a roundabout without external independent QA - Due diligence 101 says that a $304 million capex item is at least deserving of the same.
It's now a question of cred and integrity - the 380 issue has shown Q, Rolls, Airbus and too some degree, CASA, to be a little short in these attributes.
AT
1) you have more of the a/c are on the way
2) the initial issues subject to the early AD's would have at least prompted a question
Accepting or denying Q's position still leaves open the question of the future and the need for independent audit/compliance. The local council does not build a roundabout without external independent QA - Due diligence 101 says that a $304 million capex item is at least deserving of the same.
It's now a question of cred and integrity - the 380 issue has shown Q, Rolls, Airbus and too some degree, CASA, to be a little short in these attributes.
AT
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I think you have hit the nail on the head Tags, and remember that it was "supply chain" who had oversight of the 380 introduction and I think they still have a big say in the day to day, not ops and not engineering. The waters are very muddy indeed.....
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Flex/404-
, think we're all on the same page here- .....
Chimbu: circa $70 mill (for a start)- now that is impressive for an 'incident' of someone else's making, apparently......, & 'That' I guess, should be an excellent learning experience- for someone, not sure who.
Rgds
28
This function CANNOT be delegated.
Chimbu: circa $70 mill (for a start)- now that is impressive for an 'incident' of someone else's making, apparently......, & 'That' I guess, should be an excellent learning experience- for someone, not sure who.
Rgds
28
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Sydney Morning Herald - Business & World News Australia | smh.com.au
New warning over A380 engines
Craig Platt, Andrew Heasley
December 2, 2010 - 1:55PM
A new photo of the engine damage to Qantas flight QF32, posted on the internet.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau has issued a new safety warning over Airbus A380 engines after a new manufacturing defect was discovered.
The warning comes ahead of the ATSB's preliminary report into the engine failure of Qantas flight QF32 over Indonesia last month.
The newly discovered defect, which relates to an oil tube connection in the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine, is believed to be the cause of the engine failure of flight QF32.
Advertisement: Story continues below The problem is caused by the 'off-axis' boring of the oil tube that supplies the engine bearing with oil, resulting in a thinning of the material on one side that "could lead to fatigue cracking, oil leakage and potential engine failure from an oil fire", the ASTB said.
A380s with Rolls-Royce engines will again be required to undergo careful examination by the airlines that use them: Qantas, Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa.
Qantas grounded its fleet of A380s following the engine failure on November 4. Two A380s have since returned to service.
The problem has been found in the first series of Trent 900 Rolls-Royce engines, dubbed 'modification A'.
Three of these engines have been removed from service by Qantas.
Qantas will begin examinations this afternoon, including later series engines 'B' and 'C' to check for evidence of the flaw using 3D-imaging equipment.
It is not yet known whether Qantas or the other airlines will be required to ground their A380 fleets.
Qantas said the discovery of the defect "appears to provide a more definitive explanation for the engine failure that occurred on QF32."
Qantas said it did not anticipate at this stage that the inspections will have an impact on international services, but that contingency arrangements will be in place, if needed.
The ATSB is believed to be making last-minute changes to its preliminary investigation report into the QF32 incident to reflect the new information.
ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan will tomorrow present the information gleaned so far and the key safety issues resulting from the investigation to date.
New warning over A380 engines
Craig Platt, Andrew Heasley
December 2, 2010 - 1:55PM
A new photo of the engine damage to Qantas flight QF32, posted on the internet.
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau has issued a new safety warning over Airbus A380 engines after a new manufacturing defect was discovered.
The warning comes ahead of the ATSB's preliminary report into the engine failure of Qantas flight QF32 over Indonesia last month.
The newly discovered defect, which relates to an oil tube connection in the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine, is believed to be the cause of the engine failure of flight QF32.
Advertisement: Story continues below The problem is caused by the 'off-axis' boring of the oil tube that supplies the engine bearing with oil, resulting in a thinning of the material on one side that "could lead to fatigue cracking, oil leakage and potential engine failure from an oil fire", the ASTB said.
A380s with Rolls-Royce engines will again be required to undergo careful examination by the airlines that use them: Qantas, Singapore Airlines and Lufthansa.
Qantas grounded its fleet of A380s following the engine failure on November 4. Two A380s have since returned to service.
The problem has been found in the first series of Trent 900 Rolls-Royce engines, dubbed 'modification A'.
Three of these engines have been removed from service by Qantas.
Qantas will begin examinations this afternoon, including later series engines 'B' and 'C' to check for evidence of the flaw using 3D-imaging equipment.
It is not yet known whether Qantas or the other airlines will be required to ground their A380 fleets.
Qantas said the discovery of the defect "appears to provide a more definitive explanation for the engine failure that occurred on QF32."
Qantas said it did not anticipate at this stage that the inspections will have an impact on international services, but that contingency arrangements will be in place, if needed.
The ATSB is believed to be making last-minute changes to its preliminary investigation report into the QF32 incident to reflect the new information.
ATSB chief commissioner Martin Dolan will tomorrow present the information gleaned so far and the key safety issues resulting from the investigation to date.
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Qantas A380 Update
Sydney, 02 December 2010
Qantas will conduct further, more detailed one-off inspections of Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines on its A380 aircraft following the results of an additional examination of components from the engine involved in the QF32 incident on 4 November.
After discussions with the Australian Transport and Safety Bureau (ATSB) and Rolls-Royce, it was decided it was prudent to conduct further inspections of engine components, although there is no immediate risk to flight safety. This is in line with Qantas' conservative, safety first approach.
The examination took place at the Rolls-Royce facility in Derby, United Kingdom, and appears to provide a more definitive explanation for the engine failure that occurred on QF32. This resulted in a safety recommendation by the ATSB following discussions with Qantas, Rolls-Royce and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).
The ATSB's recommendation is that these one-off inspections be conducted within two flight cycles, which provides a level of inspection over and above the current 20 cycle inspection required by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The findings apply to all relevant variants of the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine operated worldwide.
Qantas currently has two A380 aircraft in operational service, following the grounding of the fleet on 4 November. Both A380 aircraft will be inspected at the Qantas Jet Base in Sydney. Inspections will commence this afternoon.
Qantas will determine any further response after it has finalised the inspection regime and consulted with both regulators and the manufacturer.
Qantas does not anticipate at this stage that the inspections will have an impact on international services, however contingency arrangements will be in place, if needed.
The ATSB has described recent developments as follows:
Recent examination of components removed from the failed engine at the Rolls-Royce plc facility in Derby, United Kingdom, have identified the presence of fatigue cracking within a stub pipe that feeds oil into the High Pressure (HP) / Intermediate Pressure (IP) bearing structure. While the analysis of the engine failure is ongoing, it has been identified that the leakage of oil into the HP/IP bearing structure buffer space (and a subsequent oil fire within that area) was central to the engine failure and IP turbine disc liberation event.
Further examination of the cracked area has identified the axial misalignment of an area of counter-boring within the inner diameter of the stub pip; the misalignment having produced a localised thinning of the pipe wall on one side. The area of fatigue cracking was associated with the area of pipe wall thinning.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5048)
Sydney, 02 December 2010
Qantas will conduct further, more detailed one-off inspections of Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engines on its A380 aircraft following the results of an additional examination of components from the engine involved in the QF32 incident on 4 November.
After discussions with the Australian Transport and Safety Bureau (ATSB) and Rolls-Royce, it was decided it was prudent to conduct further inspections of engine components, although there is no immediate risk to flight safety. This is in line with Qantas' conservative, safety first approach.
The examination took place at the Rolls-Royce facility in Derby, United Kingdom, and appears to provide a more definitive explanation for the engine failure that occurred on QF32. This resulted in a safety recommendation by the ATSB following discussions with Qantas, Rolls-Royce and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).
The ATSB's recommendation is that these one-off inspections be conducted within two flight cycles, which provides a level of inspection over and above the current 20 cycle inspection required by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The findings apply to all relevant variants of the Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine operated worldwide.
Qantas currently has two A380 aircraft in operational service, following the grounding of the fleet on 4 November. Both A380 aircraft will be inspected at the Qantas Jet Base in Sydney. Inspections will commence this afternoon.
Qantas will determine any further response after it has finalised the inspection regime and consulted with both regulators and the manufacturer.
Qantas does not anticipate at this stage that the inspections will have an impact on international services, however contingency arrangements will be in place, if needed.
The ATSB has described recent developments as follows:
Recent examination of components removed from the failed engine at the Rolls-Royce plc facility in Derby, United Kingdom, have identified the presence of fatigue cracking within a stub pipe that feeds oil into the High Pressure (HP) / Intermediate Pressure (IP) bearing structure. While the analysis of the engine failure is ongoing, it has been identified that the leakage of oil into the HP/IP bearing structure buffer space (and a subsequent oil fire within that area) was central to the engine failure and IP turbine disc liberation event.
Further examination of the cracked area has identified the axial misalignment of an area of counter-boring within the inner diameter of the stub pip; the misalignment having produced a localised thinning of the pipe wall on one side. The area of fatigue cracking was associated with the area of pipe wall thinning.
Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (5048)
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Description by Qantas off different versions of the engines here way down page.
New safety defect found in Qantas A380 engines – Plane Talking
Also a wrap here which I picked up on Twitter
A380 engines may have manufacturing fault - Business - msnbc.com
New safety defect found in Qantas A380 engines – Plane Talking
Also a wrap here which I picked up on Twitter
A380 engines may have manufacturing fault - Business - msnbc.com
I have asked repeatedly if QF maintains the in house engineering expertise to understand what is happening to its engines and thus be proactive as opposed to reactive.
As a member of the management team of one of Australias first outsourcing companies involved in the IT industry, I know that one of he first moves we made is to "lobotomise" the customer so that no one within the customer organisation remains with the technical experience capable of taking issue with, or criticise, our service at all.
We did this first by the simple means of hiring away the best brains in the customer organisation. Secondly, we argued for the customer to retrench or fire any remaining technical staff on the basis that they were superfluous.
Finally we went to the manager who had made the outsourcing decision and told them in no uncertain terms that allowing potential technical "troublemakers" to remain in his organisation risked compromising the "success" of the outsourcing program by perhaps calling into question the wisdom of his outsourcing decision, with the obvious implication that if he relied totally on us, we would keep his career safe.
We used very well dressed, very smooth talking and intelligent people to convey this message and it succeeded every time. Hundreds were retrenched at our suggestion in many organisations, leaving them totally reliant on us for technical input, and thus immune from criticism. We produced brightly coloured reports every month that showed how well we were complying with contract performance requirements too.
It generally took about Five years before the organisation realised that they had lost operational control of a core capability that was now affecting their strategic business plans. They then had to begin the long, expensive and difficult task of building technical capability again, then prising our greasy little fingers off their computers.
What happened to the staff of the now closed Qantas RR centre of excellence?
To put it another way, in Five years time Qantas decides it wants to start a service to "Buttistan" in central Asia, and the airport is 4000 ft high and summer temperatures are 37C. Qantas then has to go cap in hand to RR regarding the thrust limits on the engines, and therefore its payload. In other words, RR now has a say in QF operational decisions. Am I being far fetched?
As a member of the management team of one of Australias first outsourcing companies involved in the IT industry, I know that one of he first moves we made is to "lobotomise" the customer so that no one within the customer organisation remains with the technical experience capable of taking issue with, or criticise, our service at all.
We did this first by the simple means of hiring away the best brains in the customer organisation. Secondly, we argued for the customer to retrench or fire any remaining technical staff on the basis that they were superfluous.
Finally we went to the manager who had made the outsourcing decision and told them in no uncertain terms that allowing potential technical "troublemakers" to remain in his organisation risked compromising the "success" of the outsourcing program by perhaps calling into question the wisdom of his outsourcing decision, with the obvious implication that if he relied totally on us, we would keep his career safe.
We used very well dressed, very smooth talking and intelligent people to convey this message and it succeeded every time. Hundreds were retrenched at our suggestion in many organisations, leaving them totally reliant on us for technical input, and thus immune from criticism. We produced brightly coloured reports every month that showed how well we were complying with contract performance requirements too.
It generally took about Five years before the organisation realised that they had lost operational control of a core capability that was now affecting their strategic business plans. They then had to begin the long, expensive and difficult task of building technical capability again, then prising our greasy little fingers off their computers.
What happened to the staff of the now closed Qantas RR centre of excellence?
To put it another way, in Five years time Qantas decides it wants to start a service to "Buttistan" in central Asia, and the airport is 4000 ft high and summer temperatures are 37C. Qantas then has to go cap in hand to RR regarding the thrust limits on the engines, and therefore its payload. In other words, RR now has a say in QF operational decisions. Am I being far fetched?
Last edited by Sunfish; 2nd Dec 2010 at 07:40.