Nick Xenophon - The most important person in the future of Australian Aviation
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Emailed Nick and got a quick and positive response back
As for Mr Albanese ...tits on a bull comes to mind 
And this from the top today
Qantas chief's 'Asian rates' push for Singapore offshoot
Matt O'sullivan
September 30, 2010
QANTAS chief executive Alan Joyce has claimed the airline's Asian offshoot, Jetstar Asia, needs to pay ''Asian rates'' to be competitive against low-cost rivals and has accused unions of living ''beyond cloud-cuckoo land''.
His comments have infuriated the airline's pilots and raise the prospect of Qantas heading for a showdown with some of its key unions later this year as they engage in enterprise bargaining negotiations.
Mr Joyce told a business lunch in Sydney yesterday that ''it was just crazy'' to think that it could operate Singapore-based Jetstar Asia with pilots on Australian conditions because it would make it uncompetitive against rivals such as Tiger and AirAsia.
''It is an Asian carrier operating in an Asian environment,'' he said. ''Some of the unions, I think, have gone past cloud-cuckoo land and have gone on to a planet where competition doesn't exists.
''The fact is we are in a highly competitive market. We need to have an Asian carrier with Asian rates and the same for New Zealand … Jetconnect is a New Zealand operation with New Zealand paying conditions … that is competing against New Zealand carriers.''
Jetstar has encouraged pilots to transfer to its new Singapore-Melbourne route where - despite flying Australian-registered A330 aircraft into Australia - they will be employed on private contracts under Singapore laws.
The president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, Barry Jackson, said Singapore-based pilots were paid about 30 per cent less than those in Australia. ''Can I get a Qantas CEO on Asian rates?'' asked Mr Jackson. ''You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise where this is all going.''
He said his members understood the airline needed to be competitive, but in exchange for cutting their terms and conditions they wanted assurances that ''we will at least have a career''.
Jetconnect pilots do not receive the same superannuation entitlements as their Australian-based counterparts.
Source: The Age
Obviously Mr Joyce hasn't done a cost comparison between living in KL and Singas. A vast difference. A recent happy snap
As for Mr Albanese ...tits on a bull comes to mind And this from the top todayQantas chief's 'Asian rates' push for Singapore offshoot
Matt O'sullivan
September 30, 2010
QANTAS chief executive Alan Joyce has claimed the airline's Asian offshoot, Jetstar Asia, needs to pay ''Asian rates'' to be competitive against low-cost rivals and has accused unions of living ''beyond cloud-cuckoo land''.
His comments have infuriated the airline's pilots and raise the prospect of Qantas heading for a showdown with some of its key unions later this year as they engage in enterprise bargaining negotiations.
Mr Joyce told a business lunch in Sydney yesterday that ''it was just crazy'' to think that it could operate Singapore-based Jetstar Asia with pilots on Australian conditions because it would make it uncompetitive against rivals such as Tiger and AirAsia.
''It is an Asian carrier operating in an Asian environment,'' he said. ''Some of the unions, I think, have gone past cloud-cuckoo land and have gone on to a planet where competition doesn't exists.
''The fact is we are in a highly competitive market. We need to have an Asian carrier with Asian rates and the same for New Zealand … Jetconnect is a New Zealand operation with New Zealand paying conditions … that is competing against New Zealand carriers.''
Jetstar has encouraged pilots to transfer to its new Singapore-Melbourne route where - despite flying Australian-registered A330 aircraft into Australia - they will be employed on private contracts under Singapore laws.
The president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, Barry Jackson, said Singapore-based pilots were paid about 30 per cent less than those in Australia. ''Can I get a Qantas CEO on Asian rates?'' asked Mr Jackson. ''You don't have to be a rocket scientist to realise where this is all going.''
He said his members understood the airline needed to be competitive, but in exchange for cutting their terms and conditions they wanted assurances that ''we will at least have a career''.
Jetconnect pilots do not receive the same superannuation entitlements as their Australian-based counterparts.
Source: The Age
Last edited by Bo777; 30th Sep 2010 at 01:32.
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And the ball is rolling...
Senate carries Xenophon motion for inquiry into pilot training and standards – Plane Talking
Just having a look at the notice of motion there, and in specific " a minimum of 1500 flight hours before a pilot is able to fly a commercial plane". So now we need 1500 hours to fly a 172 out in the bush for fly commercially?
Silliness aside, I wonder whether the minimum of 1500 hours requirement will be mandated to all operating crews, including second officers? If that is so, how will the Qantas cadet and other cadet/trainee schemes occur?
Senate carries Xenophon motion for inquiry into pilot training and standards – Plane Talking
Just having a look at the notice of motion there, and in specific " a minimum of 1500 flight hours before a pilot is able to fly a commercial plane". So now we need 1500 hours to fly a 172 out in the bush for fly commercially?
Silliness aside, I wonder whether the minimum of 1500 hours requirement will be mandated to all operating crews, including second officers? If that is so, how will the Qantas cadet and other cadet/trainee schemes occur?
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Its a Good News Day!
Well Done Senator Xenophon, AIPA and everyone who has written and encouraged others to write to to their local MPs demanding action.
Lets all continue to maintain the rage and ensure this issue remains prime in the public eye.
Participation (through your union and/or your local Member) in the process has never been more important.
PG
Lets all continue to maintain the rage and ensure this issue remains prime in the public eye.
Participation (through your union and/or your local Member) in the process has never been more important.
PG
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Well, I wrote a fairly substantial submission to Mr. Xenophon (and others), particularly related to pilot recruiting (from a regional airline perspective), and declining GA training standards a few weeks ago.
I'm still waiting for the common courtesy of an acknowledgement from the good senator (and his cohorts).
I'll take him with a grain of salt, methinks..... After all, they are politicians.
I'm still waiting for the common courtesy of an acknowledgement from the good senator (and his cohorts).
I'll take him with a grain of salt, methinks.....
After all, they are politicians.
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Well, kangaroo court - what have you done? Probably sitting on your butt having a sook about it
If having a genuine enough concern for the industry to spend a couple of hours composing a submission on this important topic constitutes having "what a freaking ego" (your words), then guilty as charged!
You've obviously never met me. Most people who know me would say I'm quite the opposite
What's wrong (or egotistical) about expecting an acknowledgement from the recipient? Whenever I wrote to my former local member, he was always quite prompt to return the courtesy.
If having a genuine enough concern for the industry to spend a couple of hours composing a submission on this important topic constitutes having "what a freaking ego" (your words), then guilty as charged!
You've obviously never met me. Most people who know me would say I'm quite the opposite
What's wrong (or egotistical) about expecting an acknowledgement from the recipient? Whenever I wrote to my former local member, he was always quite prompt to return the courtesy.
Last edited by Hugh Jarse; 30th Sep 2010 at 21:39. Reason: Typo
Points 1-4, Pure Gold!
But in the imortal words of Mr Wolf from Pulp Fiction, to Jules and Vincent after they cleaned up the blood soaked car.... "Let's not go @#&*% each others *&#%@ just yet gentlemen.....!
Very interesting start though.
But in the imortal words of Mr Wolf from Pulp Fiction, to Jules and Vincent after they cleaned up the blood soaked car.... "Let's not go @#&*% each others *&#%@ just yet gentlemen.....!
Very interesting start though.
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Mr Jarse...or King Jarse is it?
Hugh, you should be concentrating on building bridges and not burning them.
This is a public forum, if he reads the crap like you just posted, feels there's less reward versus risk in taking on your fight and does not feel appreciated for his efforts...you'll be left to twist in the wind!
You've got quite a history with your posts of assuming the role of judge, jury and executioner in the same sentence.
How about a little more Due Process?
Hugh, you should be concentrating on building bridges and not burning them.
This is a public forum, if he reads the crap like you just posted, feels there's less reward versus risk in taking on your fight and does not feel appreciated for his efforts...you'll be left to twist in the wind!
You've got quite a history with your posts of assuming the role of judge, jury and executioner in the same sentence.
How about a little more Due Process?
The American legislation regarding the 1500 hours applies to RPT operations only. The general perception amongst the Australian public is that Commercial Aviation refers to RPT operations and I'm sure that this is what is going on here. The push in Australia will be for similar rules to that of the US. I doubt very much that you will ever need more than a bare commercial to fly scenics or for meat bombing but if the proposal gets up, there will be more competition for these entry level jobs than if people are able to make the Airlines via Cadebitships alone. GA will remain viable and GA pilots will remain exploitable.
there will be more competition for these entry level jobs than if people are able to make the Airlines via Cadebitships alone
Although I dare say a few of the people who are currently signing up to the cadetships might think twice about a career in aviation if it wasn't so easy to get straight into the RHS of an airliner and it meant having to actually work in GA for a few years.
The Bill
Just read the US Senate Bill - 5900. Very long but well worth a scan as the 1500 hours is only one of many significant changes. Mandating multi - crew skills training is another, so is a review of "commuting". Be careful what you wish for if anyone suggests copying it here holus bolus.
By the way in section 209/216 it makes provision for "academic credit" to reduce the 1500 hours.
Fly safe
PJ
By the way in section 209/216 it makes provision for "academic credit" to reduce the 1500 hours.
Fly safe
PJ
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This thread's gone a bit quiet.
Still waiting for an acknowledgement from the good minister
Has anyone else who may have made a submission been contacted as yet?
Still waiting for an acknowledgement from the good minister
Has anyone else who may have made a submission been contacted as yet?
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Acknowledgement and Reply Received
I've written to Senator Xenophon many times.
I've always received an acknowledgement from his correspondence staffer within a couple of days.
On occasion where I have asked a very specific question I have received a reply within a few more days.
Kudos to all who put pen to paper...it is far more effective than whining!
PG
I've always received an acknowledgement from his correspondence staffer within a couple of days.
On occasion where I have asked a very specific question I have received a reply within a few more days.
Kudos to all who put pen to paper...it is far more effective than whining!
PG
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Well I don't agree with mandating an arbitrary figure whether it be 1500 hrs or 15000 hrs. An arbitrary figure in a log book does nothing to improve safety. It doesn't improve the quality of training. Put simply, you can do something badly 1500 times. It smacks of the appearance of safety for the amusement of the masses, not unlike other arbitrary policies foisted upon us.
I can just see log books being falsified (just like teenage drivers), I can see light aircraft flying around in circles for hours on end and I can see cadets paying for a further thousand or so hours in a light aircraft that has as much in common with medium turboprop or jet rpt as a bicycle has to the Bathurst 1000.
I can just see log books being falsified (just like teenage drivers), I can see light aircraft flying around in circles for hours on end and I can see cadets paying for a further thousand or so hours in a light aircraft that has as much in common with medium turboprop or jet rpt as a bicycle has to the Bathurst 1000.
Not that long ago 'Joe, you wouldn't even get a look in with a major airline unless you had at least 3-5000 hours and an ATPL. You needed at least 2-3000 hours and said ATPL to get an interview with a decent regional. I'm sure there were the odd log book forgeries then, as I'm sure there are some now. Realistically though very few did it, and only then at their peril!
As for light aircraft flying around in circles? Give me a break. How much money do you think these kid's parents have?
As for light aircraft flying around in circles? Give me a break. How much money do you think these kid's parents have?
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Not that long ago 'Joe, you wouldn't even get a look in with a major airline unless you had at least 3-5000 hours and an ATPL. You needed at least 2-3000 hours and said ATPL to get an interview with a decent regional.
How much money do you think these kid's parents have?
Or maybe enough to really get ahead & buy some ICUS time.
Last edited by psycho joe; 4th Oct 2010 at 11:46. Reason: still working on a valid and plausable insanity plea; the context of which, to be revealed on a future date. Though possibly not of my own volition....er i was kind of expecting this box to run out bu
You may be right 'Joe, but what we'll see is an adjustment back to the requirements of before. There were rich kids around then also, but the majority of pilots that made it into the RHS of an airline op were there by virture of determination, hard work, persistance bordering on obsession, and sometimes with a not insignificant measure of luck! Believe me I know.
You may get a few (very few) capable of throwing endless amounts of cash at it, but I think once finding themselves with a bare CPL and perhaps an Instrument or Instructor's rating, and still with around 1250 hours to go, you may not see too many (or their parents) "rationalising" that it's the career for them!
There will still be plenty of candidates for those coveted airline jobs, they'll just be the ones willing to go the distance, be them wealthy or otherwise.
You may get a few (very few) capable of throwing endless amounts of cash at it, but I think once finding themselves with a bare CPL and perhaps an Instrument or Instructor's rating, and still with around 1250 hours to go, you may not see too many (or their parents) "rationalising" that it's the career for them!
There will still be plenty of candidates for those coveted airline jobs, they'll just be the ones willing to go the distance, be them wealthy or otherwise.