Nick Xenophon - The most important person in the future of Australian Aviation
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We also need to ban former senior airline management from CASA regulatory and CEO positions. This is clearly a conflict of interest with the possibility of favours being done for former employers and mates.
Aviation needs an ongoing type of "Royal Commission", where witnesses appear, under oath, and tell the truth.
It is said that a politician only calls for a Royal Commission when he knows what the outcome is going to be. At this hiatus in government, neither party has this luxury.
Bring it on Mr Xenophon.
The arguements regarding whether properly trained Cadets are better operators than experienced guys/girls off the street has been raging since Cadet programs were first introduced. you will never win or resolve that arguement, the variables are just too great. The US Congress knew that, and came to the conclusion (rightfully so in my opinion) that this whole situation is about the professionalism of airline pilots.
You cannot expect a consistant long term professional attitude from a person who earns less than the average wage, no matter how well he/she is trained. Financially poor pilots equal one thing, Lowering standards. There is only one reason Airlines in this country are trying to put inexperienced pilots into the flightdecks, Exploitation. If they had to pay Cadets a proper First Officers salary, then Cadetships of this nature would dissapear overnight. They would take experience over the long training process any day. Pay cadets a proper First Officers salary, and you won't get a gripe from me, but to do that would defeat the entire purpose of these scams in the first place!
So what has Congress done to put the profession back on track, they've made airline pilots valuable again. Brilliant in it's simplicity, but a situation that should not have gone as far as it did in the first place, and something the Australian government and population at large need to realise!
You cannot expect a consistant long term professional attitude from a person who earns less than the average wage, no matter how well he/she is trained. Financially poor pilots equal one thing, Lowering standards. There is only one reason Airlines in this country are trying to put inexperienced pilots into the flightdecks, Exploitation. If they had to pay Cadets a proper First Officers salary, then Cadetships of this nature would dissapear overnight. They would take experience over the long training process any day. Pay cadets a proper First Officers salary, and you won't get a gripe from me, but to do that would defeat the entire purpose of these scams in the first place!
So what has Congress done to put the profession back on track, they've made airline pilots valuable again. Brilliant in it's simplicity, but a situation that should not have gone as far as it did in the first place, and something the Australian government and population at large need to realise!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 16th Sep 2010 at 10:37.
The good senator should ask Qlink (SSA / EAA) "How many stick shaker events have occurred since standards were lowered to 200 hrs. ?" "How many stick shaker events have occurred in the 3 years prior?" The cost cutting is not only affecting new recruits, but having an adverse effect on ongoing currency training.
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The good senator should ask Qlink (SSA / EAA) "How many stick shaker events have occurred since standards were lowered to 200 hrs. ?" "How many stick shaker events have occurred in the 3 years prior?" The cost cutting is not only affecting new recruits, but having an adverse effect on ongoing currency training.
Barry Mundy wrote:
The Good Senator mentions QLink standards, well the first QANTAS Cadets taken in 2007/2008 are now getting commands and given positions as instructors in the sim.
(Be prepared for spin)So, Barry, if these cadets are so **** hot, why do they require more than twice the line training (as well as supplementary sim training), compared to an experienced pilot off the street?
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T TRAIN EXPERIENCE.
One day I might tell you the story about the cadet I had as an FO who had never flown in IMC... Who'd never flown in turbulence with his 150 hours....
And who withdrew support on a dark and stormy night and left me up **** creek as a single pilot with an unserviceable FO because he was frightened of the turbulence.
Give me a break!
No, I think I might make a submission to Nick Xenophon instead.
Enjoy your time at Qantaslink. Rose-coloured glasses optional.
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So what has Congress done to put the profession back on track, they've made airline pilots valuable again. Brilliant in it's simplicity, but a situation that should not have gone as far as it did in the first place, and something the Australian government and population at large need to realise!
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Guys...
I've just been in contact with Senator Xenophon's office this afternoon.
The word from him is for each and every one of you with a relevant point to make, to go ahead and prepare a submission for presentation at this public senate inquiry.
If his push for this is successful, we should know within about two weeks, and the more experienced aviation professionals that take part in making their concerns known, the more impact it will have on the decision-makers.
If you're concerned about keeping your identity covert, you are able to make anonymous submissions.
The important thing here is to get the message across that we are ALL very concerned with the current situation, and it's way past time to start getting Australian aviation, and pilot training in particular, back on track, back on track now!
Use that email address, stop whinging here and start making these points forcefully via the good senator, to this senate hearing. This is the best opportunity we've had to vent our collective concerns in an organized manner in 'living memory'!
Go for it...
EW73
I've just been in contact with Senator Xenophon's office this afternoon.
The word from him is for each and every one of you with a relevant point to make, to go ahead and prepare a submission for presentation at this public senate inquiry.
If his push for this is successful, we should know within about two weeks, and the more experienced aviation professionals that take part in making their concerns known, the more impact it will have on the decision-makers.
If you're concerned about keeping your identity covert, you are able to make anonymous submissions.
The important thing here is to get the message across that we are ALL very concerned with the current situation, and it's way past time to start getting Australian aviation, and pilot training in particular, back on track, back on track now!
Use that email address, stop whinging here and start making these points forcefully via the good senator, to this senate hearing. This is the best opportunity we've had to vent our collective concerns in an organized manner in 'living memory'!
Go for it...
EW73
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Totally agree glekichi. I think its the Direct Entry (zero to hero) Right hand seat that Nick Xenophon and others are getting a bit concerned about.
There are many other issues at stake here, this isn't a thread about cadets its a thread about the state of our industry. That includes everything from Air Traffic Controllers to the importation of workers from impoverished countries on lower conditions. All this purely for the sake of people travelling around the countryside at unsustainable ticket prices.
Australia hasn't got the population of Europe the model doesn't work here, someones going to have a prang. If you can't afford to employ experienced/talented people and pay them properly you can't afford to be in business. What kind of industry avoids expertise in favour of naivety and inexperience for the purpose of lower wages. There's something really wrong going on here.
There are many other issues at stake here, this isn't a thread about cadets its a thread about the state of our industry. That includes everything from Air Traffic Controllers to the importation of workers from impoverished countries on lower conditions. All this purely for the sake of people travelling around the countryside at unsustainable ticket prices.
Australia hasn't got the population of Europe the model doesn't work here, someones going to have a prang. If you can't afford to employ experienced/talented people and pay them properly you can't afford to be in business. What kind of industry avoids expertise in favour of naivety and inexperience for the purpose of lower wages. There's something really wrong going on here.
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 16th Sep 2010 at 12:00.
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Those with a story, experience and knowledge, take 2 minutes of your time and email the senator. Its up to us to make this industry better. Like I said 2 minutes of your time!
Those with a story, experience and knowledge, take 2 minutes of your time and email the senator. Its up to us to make this industry better. Like I said 2 minutes of your time!
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Scare mongering about safety to push a wages agenda is one of the most irresponsible things you can do in this business. When not hiding behind usernames on PPrune most responsible professionals I know in the industry would agree.
A story: I recently had installed a fairly sophisticated multi-zone ducted air-conditioning system in my house. The winning quote was from a gentleman who impressed me with his experience and knowledge, and provided a good quote. When installation day came, he didn't install it himself as I had naively expected, he sent a small team of 18yo clueless apprentices to do most of the work.
It was a false economy - the system was very poorly installed and subsequently cost him a lot of money sending a more experienced employee to come and re-do a fair bit of the work. His "competitive" quote was obviously based on underpaid and undertrained employees performing the installation.
This is what we are talking about - except that in aviation, undertrained monkeys can cost hundreds of lives. The industry's push for lower wages will ultimately end up with lower training and experience standards unless someone like Sen. Xenophon stands up and promotes regulation to prevent it.
Bring on 1500 hrs min RPT, and stop the rot of outsourced training to the lowest bidder and offshore crewing. Make the airlines train their crew properly and be held accountable for the standards. And no "pilot shortage" excuses for reduced standards. There won't be a pilot shortage if the wages are appropriate and hence encourage school leavers to enter the industry. Lawyers are still paid well and I haven't seen any "lawyer shortage" headlines in the press. 20 years ago I would have encouraged my children to become pilots. With the current state of the industry in this country, they'll be standing in the corner for an hour if they even suggest the idea.
Gidday Lester', have another read of my post. Financially poor pilots (cadets or otherwise) will result in lower standards. This is becoming apparent around the world, and the American public were shocked so much that significant changes are being made to the "VALUE" of their airline pilots. I know REX pay their graduated cadets the standard REX F/O wage, but lets face it, it's still well below the national average.
Have a look at the Jetstar Cadet deal, because this is the one that brings the bar down to a whole new level. $180K + Interest! Salary sacrificed over 6 years on a base of $50K!
End result-A gross annual salary of approx $23K P/A for a potentially hopelessly in debt A320 First Officer!!! Would you feel safe down the back?
Have a look at the Jetstar Cadet deal, because this is the one that brings the bar down to a whole new level. $180K + Interest! Salary sacrificed over 6 years on a base of $50K!
End result-A gross annual salary of approx $23K P/A for a potentially hopelessly in debt A320 First Officer!!! Would you feel safe down the back?
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Exactly, would you feel safe traveling with an FO who has his/her mind filled with stress about where his/her next rent payment is going to come from, and then a capt who is stressed because he is flying single pilot because his underpaid FO can't keep his mind on the job?
There is only one reason why AJ and BB are trying desperately to lower wages, because low cost models don't work on standard cost structures. Maybe in Europe with huge population base and where an airport pays the low cost operator to fly in to their ex military base.
There is only one reason why AJ and BB are trying desperately to lower wages, because low cost models don't work on standard cost structures. Maybe in Europe with huge population base and where an airport pays the low cost operator to fly in to their ex military base.
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Bring on an inquiry. It will just show a low hr pilot and a high hr pilot in the Right seat (I emphasis RIGHT), for the most part, means nothing. It just comes down on the day to how good each of their training has been.
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Here is the article in today's Australian by Steve Creedy
Xenophon takes aim at airline standards in a bid to stop the rot on training levels | The Australian
Steve Creedy From:The Australian | The Australian Homepage | TheAustralian September 17, 2010 12:00AM
South Australian Independent Senator Nick Xenophon at a doorstop at Parliament House in Canberra today. Picture: Ray Strange Source: The Australian
INDEPENDENT senator Nick Xenophon will push for an urgent Senate inquiry into Australian aviation training and standards.
This comes after a warning of a "race to the bottom" that has seen required flying experience for airline pilots plummet.
Senator Xenophon also called for Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and the airline's head of safety, John Gissing, to appear before a Senate committee to explain the circumstances behind a 2007 Jetstar incident in Melbourne.
The calls, made in a hard-hitting speech to a Qantas pilots union dinner in Sydney this week, come as some aviators have expressed concern about outsourced training programs that airlines say are essential to keep up the supply of new pilots.
Senator Xenophon said he was shocked to learn that the 2007 pilots shortage had seen required flight hours for new pilots at QantasLink drop from 1000 hours to 200 hours. He compared this to legislation passed last month in the US requiring commercial airline pilots to have a minimum of 1500 hours and appropriate operational experience.
The legislation was introduced after US air safety investigators found pilot error and poor training contributed to a fatal accident involving a Continental Connection Bombardier Q400 turboprop near Buffalo, New York last year. It found the captain did not have a good foundation in altitude instrument flying skills and his continued weakness in basic aircraft control and instrument flying were not identified.
"Historically, pilots were required to have a minimum of 1000 to 1500 hours of flying experience before they could get into the co-pilot's seat for a regional carrier," Senator Xenophon said. "But this standard is slipping, with many companies now thinking more about how they can fast-track pilots.
"When passengers buy their airline ticket, do you think they realise that, in some cases, the plane might be flown by someone with as little as 200 hours of experience?"
The South Australian independent said there needed to be an urgent review of current standards for flight experience in light of the US legislation.
Also in Senator Xenophon's sights are changes to reporting protocols in the Transport Safety Investigations Act so that flight crews reported incidents to aviation authorities rather than airlines.
This was in response to a July 2007 incident in which a pilot botched a go-around and the crew was unaware the aircraft, which came within 38ft of the ground, was continuing to sink. The flight crew reported the incident to Jetstar but it took five days to report it to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and excluded key information. As a result, the ATSB decided not to investigate but changed its mind some months later after media reports highlighted the seriousness of the incident.
"Flight crews should not be reporting to airlines who then choose what to do with information and what information to provide to authorities," he said.
"Some airlines could have a commercial incentive to downplay incidents."
Other issues canvassed in the speech included industry rates of pay. Senator Xenophon pointed to comments by USAirways "Miracle on the Hudson" hero Captain Chesley Sullenberger that his pay had been cut by 40 per cent and his pension terminated. He had also been surprised to find the co-pilot in the Buffalo crash had been paid between $US16,000 and $US20,000.
"With the pay so low, the industry will never attract the best talent," he said. "We're not there yet in Australia, but I believe it's safe to say the race to the bottom has begun. Low-cost carriers have introduced pay-for-training models where prospective pilots can pay up to $150,000 to gain their commercial jet licence without any guarantee of employment at the end of their training."
The speech received a rousing response from pilots at the Australian and International Pilots Association annual dinner but was less warmly received by Jetstar and the aviation regulator.
Jetstar, which runs a cadet pilot scheme in conjunction with training organisations CTC Aviation Group and Oxford Aviation Academy Group, defended its training and safety management systems as robust.
It said its cadet pilots received 1000 hours of training and close supervisory flying followed by 18 months of further supervision.
This was a conservative approach, with cadet entrants receiving about twice as much training as industry norms. Those at CTC and Oxford Aviation received a combination of 185 hours flying time, 100 hours in simulators and 55 weeks' theoretical training. Jetstar added to this 220 hours of combined simulator sessions, simulator acceptance training and line training.
Those who passed this process then did a further 500 hours flying with an experienced captain.
Jetstar chief pilot Mark Rindfleish said CTC and Oxford Aviation had been providing training for airlines, including British Airways, since the 1960s and while the Jetstar program had been a first for Australia, it was common overseas.
Captain Rindfleish said recruits were closely monitored.
"The actual reporting functions in terms of the pilots' standards, and the improving standards or decreasing standards, is probably as good as anywhere," he said.
"So we've got great capability when we get people into the business to watch them improve. And, of course, if they're not improving we've got the capability to go and put more training into where it needs to go.
"Certainly we can tell very quickly if people are heading towards a state where they may not be proficient and act on it before it gets to that stage."
The Jetstar executive acknowledged there were strong opinions among pilots about training systems. While there was some advantages of employing someone with 1500 hours who had worked for a number of different airlines on a number of jobs, someone taken from an early age would know Jetstar's policies and procedures, and could be watched throughout their training.
"It will continue to be a debate," he said. "We're not suggesting we'll stop taking people who have the other experience as well, but if we don't start generating the capability for people to get these other types of qualification then we'll rapidly denude the place of the other types of pilots, the GA guys. They're just not coming up at the speed at which we're going to need pilots."
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority, which sets requirements for pilot licences, said Australian rules were in line with most other parts of the world and were now based on pilots demonstrating competency. It said a co-pilot must have, as a minimum, a commercial pilot licence, which requires 150 hours' flight time if a pilot goes through an integrated syllabus or 200 hours in other cases.
They must also obtain an instrument rating and type endorsement for the aircraft type to be flown.
"While flying hours are a part of the qualifications co-pilots for airlines must have, the key to advancing to the position of co-pilot is demonstrating the required competencies in a wide range of areas, including technical flying skills, decision-making, navigation," a spokesman said.
Related Coverage
PILOTS angry about changes to flying at Jetstar | The Australian The Australian, 19 Aug 2010
Jetstar's pilot push under fire: Qantas pilots union | The Australian The Australian, 22 Jul 2010
Jetstar's cadet pilot program to attract thousands | The Australian The Australian, 3 Jun 2010
Jetstar malfunction link to Air France Atlantic crash | News.com.au NEWS.com.au, 3 Nov 2009
US pilots 'were working on laptops' | The Australian The Australian, 26 Oct 2009
Steve Creedy From:The Australian | The Australian Homepage | TheAustralian September 17, 2010 12:00AM
South Australian Independent Senator Nick Xenophon at a doorstop at Parliament House in Canberra today. Picture: Ray Strange Source: The Australian
INDEPENDENT senator Nick Xenophon will push for an urgent Senate inquiry into Australian aviation training and standards.
This comes after a warning of a "race to the bottom" that has seen required flying experience for airline pilots plummet.
Senator Xenophon also called for Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce and the airline's head of safety, John Gissing, to appear before a Senate committee to explain the circumstances behind a 2007 Jetstar incident in Melbourne.
The calls, made in a hard-hitting speech to a Qantas pilots union dinner in Sydney this week, come as some aviators have expressed concern about outsourced training programs that airlines say are essential to keep up the supply of new pilots.
Senator Xenophon said he was shocked to learn that the 2007 pilots shortage had seen required flight hours for new pilots at QantasLink drop from 1000 hours to 200 hours. He compared this to legislation passed last month in the US requiring commercial airline pilots to have a minimum of 1500 hours and appropriate operational experience.
The legislation was introduced after US air safety investigators found pilot error and poor training contributed to a fatal accident involving a Continental Connection Bombardier Q400 turboprop near Buffalo, New York last year. It found the captain did not have a good foundation in altitude instrument flying skills and his continued weakness in basic aircraft control and instrument flying were not identified.
"Historically, pilots were required to have a minimum of 1000 to 1500 hours of flying experience before they could get into the co-pilot's seat for a regional carrier," Senator Xenophon said. "But this standard is slipping, with many companies now thinking more about how they can fast-track pilots.
"When passengers buy their airline ticket, do you think they realise that, in some cases, the plane might be flown by someone with as little as 200 hours of experience?"
The South Australian independent said there needed to be an urgent review of current standards for flight experience in light of the US legislation.
Also in Senator Xenophon's sights are changes to reporting protocols in the Transport Safety Investigations Act so that flight crews reported incidents to aviation authorities rather than airlines.
This was in response to a July 2007 incident in which a pilot botched a go-around and the crew was unaware the aircraft, which came within 38ft of the ground, was continuing to sink. The flight crew reported the incident to Jetstar but it took five days to report it to the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and excluded key information. As a result, the ATSB decided not to investigate but changed its mind some months later after media reports highlighted the seriousness of the incident.
"Flight crews should not be reporting to airlines who then choose what to do with information and what information to provide to authorities," he said.
"Some airlines could have a commercial incentive to downplay incidents."
Other issues canvassed in the speech included industry rates of pay. Senator Xenophon pointed to comments by USAirways "Miracle on the Hudson" hero Captain Chesley Sullenberger that his pay had been cut by 40 per cent and his pension terminated. He had also been surprised to find the co-pilot in the Buffalo crash had been paid between $US16,000 and $US20,000.
"With the pay so low, the industry will never attract the best talent," he said. "We're not there yet in Australia, but I believe it's safe to say the race to the bottom has begun. Low-cost carriers have introduced pay-for-training models where prospective pilots can pay up to $150,000 to gain their commercial jet licence without any guarantee of employment at the end of their training."
The speech received a rousing response from pilots at the Australian and International Pilots Association annual dinner but was less warmly received by Jetstar and the aviation regulator.
Jetstar, which runs a cadet pilot scheme in conjunction with training organisations CTC Aviation Group and Oxford Aviation Academy Group, defended its training and safety management systems as robust.
It said its cadet pilots received 1000 hours of training and close supervisory flying followed by 18 months of further supervision.
This was a conservative approach, with cadet entrants receiving about twice as much training as industry norms. Those at CTC and Oxford Aviation received a combination of 185 hours flying time, 100 hours in simulators and 55 weeks' theoretical training. Jetstar added to this 220 hours of combined simulator sessions, simulator acceptance training and line training.
Those who passed this process then did a further 500 hours flying with an experienced captain.
Jetstar chief pilot Mark Rindfleish said CTC and Oxford Aviation had been providing training for airlines, including British Airways, since the 1960s and while the Jetstar program had been a first for Australia, it was common overseas.
Captain Rindfleish said recruits were closely monitored.
"The actual reporting functions in terms of the pilots' standards, and the improving standards or decreasing standards, is probably as good as anywhere," he said.
"So we've got great capability when we get people into the business to watch them improve. And, of course, if they're not improving we've got the capability to go and put more training into where it needs to go.
"Certainly we can tell very quickly if people are heading towards a state where they may not be proficient and act on it before it gets to that stage."
The Jetstar executive acknowledged there were strong opinions among pilots about training systems. While there was some advantages of employing someone with 1500 hours who had worked for a number of different airlines on a number of jobs, someone taken from an early age would know Jetstar's policies and procedures, and could be watched throughout their training.
"It will continue to be a debate," he said. "We're not suggesting we'll stop taking people who have the other experience as well, but if we don't start generating the capability for people to get these other types of qualification then we'll rapidly denude the place of the other types of pilots, the GA guys. They're just not coming up at the speed at which we're going to need pilots."
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority, which sets requirements for pilot licences, said Australian rules were in line with most other parts of the world and were now based on pilots demonstrating competency. It said a co-pilot must have, as a minimum, a commercial pilot licence, which requires 150 hours' flight time if a pilot goes through an integrated syllabus or 200 hours in other cases.
They must also obtain an instrument rating and type endorsement for the aircraft type to be flown.
"While flying hours are a part of the qualifications co-pilots for airlines must have, the key to advancing to the position of co-pilot is demonstrating the required competencies in a wide range of areas, including technical flying skills, decision-making, navigation," a spokesman said.
Related Coverage
PILOTS angry about changes to flying at Jetstar | The Australian The Australian, 19 Aug 2010
Jetstar's pilot push under fire: Qantas pilots union | The Australian The Australian, 22 Jul 2010
Jetstar's cadet pilot program to attract thousands | The Australian The Australian, 3 Jun 2010
Jetstar malfunction link to Air France Atlantic crash | News.com.au NEWS.com.au, 3 Nov 2009
US pilots 'were working on laptops' | The Australian The Australian, 26 Oct 2009
Last edited by Mr. Hat; 16th Sep 2010 at 23:49.
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Nobody has yet addressed the underlying problem that you need to have a functioning GA sector to provide the 1500 hrs min. The GA sector in Australia is fairly limited (and poorly paid.
Perhaps there needs to be more incentives by way of infrastructure/facilities such as common user terminals at small airports - to enourage the sector.
There needs to be a clearer progression for guys to get the 1500 hrs and then move up - perhaps the airlines should be forced to partner with charter/tourism operators - push the training standards down from the top to improve the bottom? Airlines provide check and training for smaller operators...
Perhaps there needs to be more incentives by way of infrastructure/facilities such as common user terminals at small airports - to enourage the sector.
There needs to be a clearer progression for guys to get the 1500 hrs and then move up - perhaps the airlines should be forced to partner with charter/tourism operators - push the training standards down from the top to improve the bottom? Airlines provide check and training for smaller operators...
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All,
Show Senator Xenophon that we applaud and support his courage and hard work.
Please send him an email of support as I have just done so we can turn this safety-rot around. His email address is on his website.
We do not want a Colgan-air style crash on our watch.
Cheers,
PG
Show Senator Xenophon that we applaud and support his courage and hard work.
Please send him an email of support as I have just done so we can turn this safety-rot around. His email address is on his website.
We do not want a Colgan-air style crash on our watch.
Cheers,
PG
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The day Aviation changed in Australia?
The Senator needs to speak to some of the turbo prop pilots around the country (thats you REX and Skippers etc drivers). Even some jet guys could shed some light on wages and conditions. Training wages, bonds, upfront endorsement costs. Low wages in disguise.
Have to say the first line is just brilliant.
Have to say the first line is just brilliant.
"With the pay so low, the industry will never attract the best talent," he said. "We're not there yet in Australia, but I believe it's safe to say the race to the bottom has begun. Low-cost carriers have introduced pay-for-training models where prospective pilots can pay up to $150,000 to gain their commercial jet licence without any guarantee of employment at the end of their training."
"We're not suggesting we'll stop taking people who have the other experience as well, but if we don't start generating the capability for people to get these other types of qualification then we'll rapidly denude the place of the other types of pilots, the GA guys. They're just not coming up at the speed at which we're going to need pilots."
They may crow until the cows come home that the reason they (in this case J*) are offering cadetships is because of a looming pilot shortage. If this was true then they would be offering these cadetships on the same terms as existing pilots. The very fact they are offering them on greatly reduced terms highlights the real motive behind them and it has nothing to do with any mythical pilot shortage in Australia. It has everything to do with slashing terms and conditions by entrapping starry eyed wannabes with no aviation experience who through no fault of their own don’t know any better.
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It cracks me up how Bruce Buchanan in his recent interview quoted with conviction that they needed to be competitive with the Asian salaries! Most of the Asian carriers insist on hiring EXPERIENCED operators and paying them very handsome salaries hence I'm guessing the impending "pilot shortage" it's obvious the shortage will be driven from Asia offering high salaries that will drain the Aussie experience and benefit the safety of the Asian carriers. AJ and BB's answer to that is inexperience? WTF? Do these guys actually know the industry? The key to bottom line in this industry is safety. Safety unfortunately cost money. Pay the money and pilots will not leave for Asian jobs and the won't be the "pilot shortage" hiring cadets and paying Shyte may be good for the bottom line now but the "pilot shortage" will soon take care of those cadets as they'll chase the big bucks to make good on their return on investment. Cadets won't solve the pilot shortage, treating your employees with respect and creating an environment where upon the employee wont want to leave solves a pilot shortage. Why has Qantas been so successful over the years? Safety, risk that and you don't have a product in this game.