Merged: Qantas 747 Engine failure. Returns to SFO

[listentome]

I've either missed something, or this has been kept very quiet?

747 makes it back to SFO after engine fails

[crow17]

Qantas 747-400 engine failure

I see on the news that a Qantas 747-400 has s*at a turbine blade on #4 eng out of San Fran overnight. Anyone with some details.
I also hear that Qantas doesn't do their engins in house anymore.
Crow

[Red Jet]

Seriously - we really need a thread about a 4-engine aircraft having lost the use of one??

It is reminiscent of the F16 pilot who was told by approach control to hold, in order to give priority to a B52 coming in with an engine failure, whereupon he replied " Oh dear - the dreaded 7-engine approach".

[Chimbu chuckles]

Yup - non event - he still had 50% more engines than MOST of the aircraft crossing the Pacific. Had it not been a 'severe damage' (I am assuming 'sh*t a turbine blade' is accurate) he would have been within his rights to continue on to Hawaii (No need to dump fuel/call company and have engineers standing by with new engine and, most importantly, MUCH better place to be stuck ) or even Australia (fuel permitting).

Or have the ar$e coverers put 'land at nearest suitable' for a single system failure in the QRH/ECL on 4 engine aeroplanes now too?

[cone zone]

Once you see the images I sure you will agree that it is news worthy, Besides it is more interesting than most of the dribble on here.

[compressor stall]

I agree chuck, but I do recall the FAA getting rather shirty to say the least when a ba 747 lost one out of JFK I think and continued to Europe.

[Mach2point7]

I beg to differ. An uncontained engine failure at 30,000 ft is not a "non event". See the thread under Rumours and News for photos and more details. The entire design and certification process is meant to ensure that this does not happen. Interesting that it did not let go at take off power setting. Very lucky that the debris trajectory was outboard from the #4.

[Weapons_Hot]

Okay, I'll ask the obvious question:

Did QF74 use de-rated thrust for TKOF, and what was CLTHR (CLTHR1 or CLTHR2)?

On occasion, de-rated TKOF and CLTHR can be the same.

[BigGun]

Qantas jet turns back after large hole appears in shell around engine

I have a large dislike for aussie media, honestly watch the video and ask where the quality is in it?

I think its border line slanderous mentioned the "just reasont" issue of the cargo blowing out.

Also an engine is not part of the fuselage is only punched a hole in the back of the thrust reverser.

[Keg]

Weapons hot. If they could have they probably would have. I never flew SFO-SYD on the 744 but LAX-SYD was often close to MTOW and therefore no derate available.

[jet_mechanic]

That looks like a lot of damage for a turbine blade failure. The turbine blades are quite small in mass, so for one to penatrate the turbine case there must have been a big failure somewhere else aswell.

[LetsGoRated]

Seriously - we really need a thread about a 4-engine aircraft having lost the use of one??

Red Jet, you are my hero!! We don't need to hear about these things. Lets just sweep them under the rug cause that way nobody learns. We spend years and tears training for these events, however Red Jet is such a guru it all comes naturally to him. He requires no such experiences, for he is the oracle. Red Jet, a professional, you are not!

[crow17]

"The turbine blades are quite small in mass, so for one to penatrate the turbine case there must have been a big failure somewhere else aswell."


Jet Mech.

When one turbine blade goes it usually takes a lot with it. One of the photos in Sydneys Daily Telegraph clearly shows what remains of the turbine disc minus a few blades( lots of empty fur tress on the disc). Disc failure or blade failure still end up with similar nasty result.

Crow

[blueloo]

From online SMH:

Mr Rushton said engine failures were "very rare events" and there was no fire.

But an engine surge can often cause what appear to be flames.

So flames that appear to be flames are not actually flames?

There was no fire? So none of the engines were running? Last time I checked the engines need some form of ignition and fuel to keep them running.

Where do they get these PR twits from.

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Smile.......

On Commercial Radio a little while ago, a QANTAS Spokesperson said that
"All the passengers took it in their stride'......

Or, was that 'did it in their strides'.......

Could be my hearing these days....

Sorry guys & Gals.....normal 'viewing' resumes.....



p.s. Stallie, that was LAX to LHR I think....and it had to land en route (Manchester?) 'cause of the fuel it didn't then have to make LHR...if I remember correctly.

[N1 Vibes]

Turbine blades or turbine disc....

Looking at the photos on Flight Global it looks more like a large bit of turbine has exited the engine, in the 3rd photo you can see the core engine turbine casing flange, it should normally have a fairing on it. If only a turbine blade had exited there would normally just be a small blade sized puncture

Pictures: Qantas 747 uncontained engine failure-31/08/2010-Washington DC-Flightglobal.com

4 Engine A/C, big deal or not....

The same engine type (RB211-524) is fitted to the B767, ETOPS a/c, and the turbine architecture is the same. And most of the Trent family is similar too.

Similar events....

Edelweiss A330 (Trent 700, shares the HP/IP turbine of the 524) ex Miami October 2003. Engine lost substantial piece of the IPT disc due to overheating in the HP/IP turbine bearing area, due to oil vent tube coking. Overheating caused the IPT disc rotor arm to crack and fail see:

An Incident With A Edelweiss A330 Departing MIA — Civil Aviation Forum | Airliners.net

[deadhead]

Momentum = mass x velocity. As long as the thrown blade (if that is what it was) has high enough velocity, it won't matter how small it is. It'll still do damage. I'm surprised that the engine stayed on. An uncontained failure like that should have brought the turbine down from thousands of RPM to zero in a second or two. The torque developed from that should have tried to twist the engine right off its mounts. The torque shear bolts should have broken (as designed) and dropped the engine. But thank God it stayed on. Can you imagine the journos having a field day with that one? Convincing them that the engine is designed to drop off before a massive torsional overload can damage the wing would be quite futile. One thing's for sure: it won't just be an engine replacement job, that whole wing spar will need a hard core inspection.

[Offchocks]

N1 Vibes

Are you sure it is a RB211, the photos are not that great but it looks like a CF6 to me.

[N1 Vibes]

Deadhead,

you forget that even if the IPT disc had parted company - either part or whole - the LP Turbine continues to rotate because the fan is windmilling like billyo, and the debris from the IPT failing will pass throught the still rotating LPT, causing sparks etc...

[SMOC]

The torque developed from that should have tried to twist the engine right off its mounts. The torque shear bolts should have broken (as designed) and dropped the engine.

Not any more, after El Al a 5th attachment was added between the two front spar attachments and all of the old 'fuse' pins were replaced with a non fuse type.

Also definitely a Roller.

Lucky it wasn't a fan blade.

YouTube - Wide Body, Blade-Out Jet Engine Test