AIPA V QF Jetconnect
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: fairfield
Age: 82
Posts: 50
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FAIR WORK AUSTRALIA
DECISION
Fair Work (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Act 2009
Sch. 3, Items 10 and 12 - Application to vary pre-reform or transitional award
Australian and International Pilots Association
v
Qantas Airways Limited and Jetconnect Limited
(C2009/11363)
JUSTICE BOULTON, SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT
SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DRAKE
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON
DECISION OF THE FULL BENCH
[134] The Full Bench has decided not to make the variations to the Award sought by AIPA. Accordingly, and for the reasons given in the majority decision, the application is dismissed.
DECISION
Fair Work (Transitional Provisions and Consequential Amendments) Act 2009
Sch. 3, Items 10 and 12 - Application to vary pre-reform or transitional award
Australian and International Pilots Association
v
Qantas Airways Limited and Jetconnect Limited
(C2009/11363)
JUSTICE BOULTON, SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT
SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT DRAKE
COMMISSIONER HAMPTON
DECISION OF THE FULL BENCH
[134] The Full Bench has decided not to make the variations to the Award sought by AIPA. Accordingly, and for the reasons given in the majority decision, the application is dismissed.
Shame others weren't of the opinion of Drake.
[121] What Qantas has done in relation to conducting its trans Tasman flights and Jetconnect is to reverse the base from which flights are despatched and then comply with the consequential compulsory New Zealand regulatory outcomes, including those involving air safety. The rest is smoke and mirrors.
[122] Jetconnect has no control over its operations, its finances or its industrial relations. Mr Daff, Jetconnect’s Chief Executive Officer, decides nothing significant. He decides no business strategy. He consults and then is directed concerning all decisions except the most insignificant. His ignorance concerning Jetconnect’s financial affairs is staggering. Finances are in someone else’s hands and that someone is an employee of Qantas. Mr Daff and his financial manager handle operational and financial matters at a divisional level only. Jetconnect banks almost nothing. It is indemnified for all expenses. Jetconnect’s operational function is limited to the immediate shopfloor operational concerns not involving any strategy. All strategy, both financial and operational, is a matter for Qantas.
[123] Jetconnect’s industrial arrangements are a prime example. Its lawyers are eventually paid by Qantas and its industrial adviser is a person referred to Jetconnect by Qantas whose fees are also eventually paid by Qantas. Jetconnect has entered into individual contracts with pilots and had an industrial agreement with the New Zealand Air Line Pilots Association Industrial Union of Workers Inc (NZALPA) which expired on 26 May 2011. In entering into these arrangements Qantas set the negotiating table and dictated what was on it. Jetconnect did what it was briefed to do.
[122] Jetconnect has no control over its operations, its finances or its industrial relations. Mr Daff, Jetconnect’s Chief Executive Officer, decides nothing significant. He decides no business strategy. He consults and then is directed concerning all decisions except the most insignificant. His ignorance concerning Jetconnect’s financial affairs is staggering. Finances are in someone else’s hands and that someone is an employee of Qantas. Mr Daff and his financial manager handle operational and financial matters at a divisional level only. Jetconnect banks almost nothing. It is indemnified for all expenses. Jetconnect’s operational function is limited to the immediate shopfloor operational concerns not involving any strategy. All strategy, both financial and operational, is a matter for Qantas.
[123] Jetconnect’s industrial arrangements are a prime example. Its lawyers are eventually paid by Qantas and its industrial adviser is a person referred to Jetconnect by Qantas whose fees are also eventually paid by Qantas. Jetconnect has entered into individual contracts with pilots and had an industrial agreement with the New Zealand Air Line Pilots Association Industrial Union of Workers Inc (NZALPA) which expired on 26 May 2011. In entering into these arrangements Qantas set the negotiating table and dictated what was on it. Jetconnect did what it was briefed to do.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AIPA Media Release
Tuesday, 6 September 2011
Jetconnect remains a sham, AIPA concerned by FWA ruling
The Australian and International Pilots Association has described today’s ruling by Fair Work Australia, regarding NZ-based Qantas subsidiary Jetconnect, as disappointing and concerning.
Jetconnect operates Qantas flights into and out of New Zealand. Although these flights appear to be regular Qantas flights – with flying kangaroo livery, QF flightcodes and Qantas crew uniforms – since 2010 they have actually been operated by the wholly-owned, NZ-based company.
Through this arrangement, Qantas Group is able to employ pilots and crew on New Zealand wages and conditions. Jetconnect also pays its tax in New Zealand instead of Australia.
Today, in a 2-1 split decision, the FWA bench ruled that it was unable to prevent Qantas Group from using the hollow company to employ pilots and crew flying into and out of Australia on lower New Zealand wages and conditions.
However Senior Deputy Drake did find that on the merits and evidence, Jetconnect is indeed a sham company and a mere agent of Qantas Group.
AIPA President Captain Barry Jackson said although he was disappointed by the overall ruling, it was gratifying to read Senior Deputy Drake’s assessment.
"AIPA has said from the start that Jetconnect is nothing short of a sham operation and Senior Deputy Drake’s assessment confirms that view," Capt. Jackson said.
"Qantas management have been cynically using this hollow shell of a company to avoid awarding employees Australian wages and conditions on what are ostensibly Qantas flights.
"The whole Jetconnect operation has been nothing short of a deception. When passengers purchase a Qantas ticket and then board a plane with a flying roo on the tail, they are entitled to expect that their pilots and crew and fully-fledged Qantas employees.
"That the Qantas Group can continue in this vein sends a worrying signal to Australian corporations around the country. Imagine if one of the big miners is able to establish a wholly-controlled labour-hire company in say, Indonesia, and use employees on Indonesian wages and conditions to undercut Australian workers.
"This ruling demonstrates the current limits of the Fair Work Act and legislative reform is now needed to enable Fair Work Australia to intervene in cases such as this to protect the rights of Australian workers. AIPA will now consider an appeal."
Tuesday, 6 September 2011
Jetconnect remains a sham, AIPA concerned by FWA ruling
The Australian and International Pilots Association has described today’s ruling by Fair Work Australia, regarding NZ-based Qantas subsidiary Jetconnect, as disappointing and concerning.
Jetconnect operates Qantas flights into and out of New Zealand. Although these flights appear to be regular Qantas flights – with flying kangaroo livery, QF flightcodes and Qantas crew uniforms – since 2010 they have actually been operated by the wholly-owned, NZ-based company.
Through this arrangement, Qantas Group is able to employ pilots and crew on New Zealand wages and conditions. Jetconnect also pays its tax in New Zealand instead of Australia.
Today, in a 2-1 split decision, the FWA bench ruled that it was unable to prevent Qantas Group from using the hollow company to employ pilots and crew flying into and out of Australia on lower New Zealand wages and conditions.
However Senior Deputy Drake did find that on the merits and evidence, Jetconnect is indeed a sham company and a mere agent of Qantas Group.
AIPA President Captain Barry Jackson said although he was disappointed by the overall ruling, it was gratifying to read Senior Deputy Drake’s assessment.
"AIPA has said from the start that Jetconnect is nothing short of a sham operation and Senior Deputy Drake’s assessment confirms that view," Capt. Jackson said.
"Qantas management have been cynically using this hollow shell of a company to avoid awarding employees Australian wages and conditions on what are ostensibly Qantas flights.
"The whole Jetconnect operation has been nothing short of a deception. When passengers purchase a Qantas ticket and then board a plane with a flying roo on the tail, they are entitled to expect that their pilots and crew and fully-fledged Qantas employees.
"That the Qantas Group can continue in this vein sends a worrying signal to Australian corporations around the country. Imagine if one of the big miners is able to establish a wholly-controlled labour-hire company in say, Indonesia, and use employees on Indonesian wages and conditions to undercut Australian workers.
"This ruling demonstrates the current limits of the Fair Work Act and legislative reform is now needed to enable Fair Work Australia to intervene in cases such as this to protect the rights of Australian workers. AIPA will now consider an appeal."
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: sydney
Age: 76
Posts: 260
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Guys , It matters nought what SDP Drake "thought "the majority of the Full Bench disagreed . Oh dear another loss for AIPA , time to move on and stop wasting memebers funds .
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: south pacific vagrant
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So. Where the f. did my post go? Careless editing? Explain it or ban me. Either way I dont especially care. Nothing offensive about it. Delete this and PM me if you prefer
W9
W9
Last edited by waren9; 6th Sep 2011 at 08:36.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: DSS-46 (Canberra Region)
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Funny as, Warren. You posted in an unrelated forum, and it was deleted over there because it was off-topic. 
Perhaps a little more attention to detail is needed on your part We can ban you if you really want 
TID.
Perhaps a little more attention to detail is needed on your part
We can ban you if you really want TID.
Last edited by Tidbinbilla; 6th Sep 2011 at 09:29.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fatmike posted the same post in two threads.
Jees there will be some piss drunk tonight down at AJ's apartment in the Toaster.
Nothing can save the mainline pilot group now.
Jees there will be some piss drunk tonight down at AJ's apartment in the Toaster.
Nothing can save the mainline pilot group now.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: I'veBeenEverywhereMan
Posts: 198
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes
on
5 Posts
This is a big blow. I really hope they appeal and bring in every industrial lawyer they can. I really fear for the mail line cause now. aJ will be walking high today wi this decision.
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In a country that is fast becoming a plutocracy, it was probably too much to think that anyone in the government or the judiciary was going to stand up to big business.
Although the new IR laws are clearly better then work choices, practically they have no effect. Its business as usual for corporate Australia.
The loss of this court case has bigger implications then just Jetconnect of course. It is effectively a green light for all companies to outsource and offshore to the max. Precedent has now been set.
I anticipate a very aggressive move offshore of both QF and JQ operations now. JQA being the first vehicle in relation to JQ, and a massive expansion of Jetconnect as well.
Although the new IR laws are clearly better then work choices, practically they have no effect. Its business as usual for corporate Australia.
The loss of this court case has bigger implications then just Jetconnect of course. It is effectively a green light for all companies to outsource and offshore to the max. Precedent has now been set.
I anticipate a very aggressive move offshore of both QF and JQ operations now. JQA being the first vehicle in relation to JQ, and a massive expansion of Jetconnect as well.
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Stralya
Posts: 577
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Captain Jackson said to the media, literally a mining company could bring in cheap employees from Indonesia to work in a mine and fly them out. The whole mantra of globalised labour was that low skilled jobs would be exported. It would seem that is no longer the case. The ramifications are massive.
Candidly there is much to play out..Yes a setback, but the union movement (all of them not AIPA) ought realise where this is headed. It is worth noting that the decision indicates that the jurisdiction is not correct to test the case. AIPA holds many interesting and pertinent facts about Jetconnect. I wouldn't be sending out resumes just yet!
Candidly there is much to play out..Yes a setback, but the union movement (all of them not AIPA) ought realise where this is headed. It is worth noting that the decision indicates that the jurisdiction is not correct to test the case. AIPA holds many interesting and pertinent facts about Jetconnect. I wouldn't be sending out resumes just yet!
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Bangkok & Vegas
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As for point 123, wonder if mainline foots all the bills?
Be curious to see which bucket of money services are paid from.
Funny that they couldn't find in the positive given that they acknowledge it is a sham.
Be curious to see which bucket of money services are paid from.
Funny that they couldn't find in the positive given that they acknowledge it is a sham.
As Captain Jackson said to the media, literally a mining company could bring in cheap employees from Indonesia to work in a mine and fly them out.
Time for BJ to do a lot more flying?
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Oz
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As Captain Jackson said to the media, literally a mining company could bring in cheap employees from Indonesia to work in a mine and fly them out.
What I suspect that the Airlines think they can do is get western crews to work as expats in Australia. The Achilles heal of this plan is if Australians and other Western crews withdraw their labour. If that happens and they are then force to hire and therefore train Asian pilots, which I don't think they are setup for. I can't see QF setting up flying schools to train Asians to fly their aircraft.
QF assume that they can just setup shop and put an ad out for pilots and everyone will come running.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Roguesville, cloud cuckooland
Posts: 1,197
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes
on
5 Posts
To put this in perspective, AIPA always realized that the jurisdiction aspect always made this decision likely.
The handling of this case by Qantas lawyers, in allowing Daff to be put in a situation where he could be cross-examined, may still one day be recognized as the turning point, and an incredible tactical error.
The handling of this case by Qantas lawyers, in allowing Daff to be put in a situation where he could be cross-examined, may still one day be recognized as the turning point, and an incredible tactical error.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,116
Received 13 Likes
on
8 Posts
Lost a battle not the war. Legislation is the key. Over to constituents and their reps in parliament.
Already written to my MP, Senators Brown, Rhiannon and Evans and Adam Bandt.
Should probably include Katter, Oakeshott and Windsor.
Won't make any difference but at least I won't die wondering.
Should probably include Katter, Oakeshott and Windsor.
Won't make any difference but at least I won't die wondering.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Australia
Age: 64
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Way, way back when this operation was contracted to AWAS (to get it up and running) and QF then came in to "take it over", I personally called the then president of the AIPA to advise him of the changes to the AWAS contracts that were being made by QF (reductions in everything from allowances to wages). I regarded it at the time as the thin edge of the wedge and advised the AIPA that they would be wise to take action before precedent was set.
The response was "we're not interested because we don't classify that as our flying and therefore any of our concern". So the encumbants received no assistance and the degradation began. More Kiwi's werre employed and Aussies went home. Just a tad "rich" to now cry foul, in my view.
The response was "we're not interested because we don't classify that as our flying and therefore any of our concern". So the encumbants received no assistance and the degradation began. More Kiwi's werre employed and Aussies went home. Just a tad "rich" to now cry foul, in my view.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: on time
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just for the record, I don't have a problem with what you guys say about Jetconnect on the radio or about what you think of us as a safe airline but working at Jetconnect since the early days has had its interesting moments:
- A domestic operation with bitter Ansett Australia pilots then a little bit of Tasman flying thrown in a few years later, bases opening, closing, lots of Tasman flying.
- The arrival of the lovely Jetstar on Tasman services from Christchurch to the fully fledged arrival of Jetstar domestic in NZ (at lower wages than Jetconnect I might add) and their VH registered aeroplanes flying up and down NZ. This moved us sideways, at the direction of Qantas, into the Tasman operation we are today.
- 6 major changes to our SOPs to now sharing SOPs with the world's safest airline. - No fewer than 4 CEOs.
- 5 Flight Operations Managers - no - make that 4 and one disaster!
- An Air New Zealand takeover hanging over our head for about 2 years.
- An Australian court case (SHAM!) telling us at first that they are trying to get us better wages until the truth has really come out.
Yes it is always interesting working at Jetconnect part of an airline whose **** doesn't stink!
We do a good safe job under ever changing conditions in an uncertain environment, I will keep my $150k+ any day to have the pleasure of living in NZ.
There is one thing we are always sure of at Jetconnect - change!
- A domestic operation with bitter Ansett Australia pilots then a little bit of Tasman flying thrown in a few years later, bases opening, closing, lots of Tasman flying.
- The arrival of the lovely Jetstar on Tasman services from Christchurch to the fully fledged arrival of Jetstar domestic in NZ (at lower wages than Jetconnect I might add) and their VH registered aeroplanes flying up and down NZ. This moved us sideways, at the direction of Qantas, into the Tasman operation we are today.
- 6 major changes to our SOPs to now sharing SOPs with the world's safest airline. - No fewer than 4 CEOs.
- 5 Flight Operations Managers - no - make that 4 and one disaster!
- An Air New Zealand takeover hanging over our head for about 2 years.
- An Australian court case (SHAM!) telling us at first that they are trying to get us better wages until the truth has really come out.
Yes it is always interesting working at Jetconnect part of an airline whose **** doesn't stink!
We do a good safe job under ever changing conditions in an uncertain environment, I will keep my $150k+ any day to have the pleasure of living in NZ.
There is one thing we are always sure of at Jetconnect - change!
Is there also the little elephant in the room here of where the money comes from to foot the bill for Jetconnect running this operation?
The FWA decision seems to indicate that Qantas (international?) pays the bills. Does this contribute to the 'loss' that Qantas international made?
At least some people here seem happy to see Australian jobs off shored, it sets in stone however that any Australian company can do this now with the legal backing of FWA.
As Australian pilots I think we just have to make sure the consumer is aware of what is contained in this operation, just as by law companies are made to list the contents on anything you buy in a shop. Not a dig at the JC pilots, a dig at what used to be an icon of an Australian company pulling the wool over its customer base.
The FWA decision seems to indicate that Qantas (international?) pays the bills. Does this contribute to the 'loss' that Qantas international made?
At least some people here seem happy to see Australian jobs off shored, it sets in stone however that any Australian company can do this now with the legal backing of FWA.
As Australian pilots I think we just have to make sure the consumer is aware of what is contained in this operation, just as by law companies are made to list the contents on anything you buy in a shop. Not a dig at the JC pilots, a dig at what used to be an icon of an Australian company pulling the wool over its customer base.