QF Brings forward 787 deliveries by two years
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Depends on whos' EBA the vacancies are offered I'd say.
If the 787 goes to the current Australian EBA (highly unlikely) then no one would pay. If it goes to some other parallel or overseas contract (highly likely) then everyone except management mates will have to
If the 787 goes to the current Australian EBA (highly unlikely) then no one would pay. If it goes to some other parallel or overseas contract (highly likely) then everyone except management mates will have to
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The right Jetstar EBA will get the guernsey for the 787. Take your pick
1. Jetstar Oz (Impulse, Ansett or _ _ers)
2. Jetstar Christchurch
3. Jetstar Auckland
4. Jetstar Singapore
I'm betting on Singapore and guessing the Jetstar 330 guys should be feeling nervous as those aircraft return to mainline.
1. Jetstar Oz (Impulse, Ansett or _ _ers)
2. Jetstar Christchurch
3. Jetstar Auckland
4. Jetstar Singapore
I'm betting on Singapore and guessing the Jetstar 330 guys should be feeling nervous as those aircraft return to mainline.
Nunc est bibendum
Of course they would. I wonder where the reserved seniority numbers are up to these days? They'd almost certainly have F/O slots now which means they'd probably get a pay rise.
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The right Jetstar EBA will get the guernsey for the 787. Take your pick
1. Jetstar Oz (Impulse, Ansett or _ _ers)
2. Jetstar Christchurch
3. Jetstar Auckland
4. Jetstar Singapore
I'm betting on Singapore and guessing the Jetstar 330 guys should be feeling nervous as those aircraft return to mainline.
1. Jetstar Oz (Impulse, Ansett or _ _ers)
2. Jetstar Christchurch
3. Jetstar Auckland
4. Jetstar Singapore
I'm betting on Singapore and guessing the Jetstar 330 guys should be feeling nervous as those aircraft return to mainline.
Welcome to the "NEW" JETSTAR GROUP contract that will be in place shortly. Where it will be based? Who knows.
Amazingly, Jetstar undercut Qantas and now Jetstar gets undercut by a group operating under the same banner for lesser conditions.
Welcome to the TEAM JETSTAR pilots.
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Old Sherm is living under afar distant tropic sun for a while, working hard though. Only the odd mango daiquiri while listening to his beloved Bombers play. Sigh.....you guys meander on and on about 1989 but what about 1984 and 1985? Go Dons....
Just a thought you know.....not all Jetstar pilots are low-lifes who couldn't get a job elsewhere....in fact most are very professional pilots doing their best. I'd bet that there's no more percentage of duds than in a large Australian airline with the same parent. Certainly thus far none from the JQ ranks has created a new course record at the Bangkok golf club. And they're probably not thrilled that they just might rate an F/O slot on an outdated QF 737 while pilots from another airline within their parent group can jump in and grab 320 and 330 commands.
Having said all of that....the world has well and truly changed and EBAs and their like mean little now. At the point many years back where the mainline drivers left the AFAP and neglected to get themselves a scope clause.....that's where it all went wrong. Compounded by QF failure to order 777s and AIPA failure to embrace Impulse pilots. You can't put those lumps of toothpaste back in the tube you know.
Though in truth if AIPA had a scope clause outfits like JQ would have started....and from the punters point of view rightly so.......it's just that they would have started elsewhere and wouldn't have had the parent Qantas Group as an owner. So the profits and jobs would have well and truly left Australia or at least Qantas.
I think I need another daiquiri....starting to actually think that pilots whinge a lot and should look within for earthly solutions and a little northwards of the tropopause for inner peace. Blaming others for everything is a little less than edifying for a true gentleman don't you think?
Cheers
Sherm
Just a thought you know.....not all Jetstar pilots are low-lifes who couldn't get a job elsewhere....in fact most are very professional pilots doing their best. I'd bet that there's no more percentage of duds than in a large Australian airline with the same parent. Certainly thus far none from the JQ ranks has created a new course record at the Bangkok golf club. And they're probably not thrilled that they just might rate an F/O slot on an outdated QF 737 while pilots from another airline within their parent group can jump in and grab 320 and 330 commands.
Having said all of that....the world has well and truly changed and EBAs and their like mean little now. At the point many years back where the mainline drivers left the AFAP and neglected to get themselves a scope clause.....that's where it all went wrong. Compounded by QF failure to order 777s and AIPA failure to embrace Impulse pilots. You can't put those lumps of toothpaste back in the tube you know.
Though in truth if AIPA had a scope clause outfits like JQ would have started....and from the punters point of view rightly so.......it's just that they would have started elsewhere and wouldn't have had the parent Qantas Group as an owner. So the profits and jobs would have well and truly left Australia or at least Qantas.
I think I need another daiquiri....starting to actually think that pilots whinge a lot and should look within for earthly solutions and a little northwards of the tropopause for inner peace. Blaming others for everything is a little less than edifying for a true gentleman don't you think?
Cheers
Sherm
Last edited by Captain Sherm; 16th Jul 2010 at 11:13.
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I am so sick of hearing about Jetstar. Having the airline rammed down your throat every time you turn the telly on. Switch on channel 7 in the morning and bloody J* is all over the programming like a rash from Bangkok. I could not care less what happens with their eba sub eba or whatever. Talk about marketing over exposure. I have heard crap from 4 CEOs now and all they do is spin to make you believe they are on your side. Believe only what you see when the 787 taxis in painted silver or white until then its all bull**** because what happens 2-3 years away is anybodies guess as to who will fly it. Why would you want to anyway. Its fuel tanks are way too big. 
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As I have said in a different post, nobody is twisting your arms to stay put. If you don't like it GET OUT. I did. Best thing I ever did.
The lot of you must realise that QF are not, repeat NOT going to do anybody any favours. The lowest bidder will win every time with this pack of "c u next tuesdays".Take your skillset elsewhere, where at least you will be valued/respected/wanted etc. Stop blaming everybody else and take charge of your own destiny. Otherwise, shut up,suck it in and get on with it.
There is NEVER going to be solidarity or "safety in numbers" with pilots. The watershed was 21 years ago and testament to this. Industrially, the QF Group think tank is light years ahead of the game. This has been their M O since the Australian Airlines experiment and JQ is the vehicle for achieving their ideals. And rest assured, behind closed doors, plans are afoot NOW for what lies ahead ten years from now. So, unless you want to be part of the destruction and industrial oblivion of our "profession"(already too late IMHO), get out and take charge of your own destiny or shut up and live with it.
The lot of you must realise that QF are not, repeat NOT going to do anybody any favours. The lowest bidder will win every time with this pack of "c u next tuesdays".Take your skillset elsewhere, where at least you will be valued/respected/wanted etc. Stop blaming everybody else and take charge of your own destiny. Otherwise, shut up,suck it in and get on with it.
There is NEVER going to be solidarity or "safety in numbers" with pilots. The watershed was 21 years ago and testament to this. Industrially, the QF Group think tank is light years ahead of the game. This has been their M O since the Australian Airlines experiment and JQ is the vehicle for achieving their ideals. And rest assured, behind closed doors, plans are afoot NOW for what lies ahead ten years from now. So, unless you want to be part of the destruction and industrial oblivion of our "profession"(already too late IMHO), get out and take charge of your own destiny or shut up and live with it.
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Unfortunately, taking ones bat and leaving the field, won’t help Qantas, nor Jetstar Australia Pilots & Aircraft Engineers.
However, notwithstanding what is necessary to achieve it, it is possible, even now, to save Qantas from a strategy that will have QF will cover off the main network points and ‘J* Offshore’ the rest.
A ‘Qantas Jetstar Employee Share Trust’ with 5%or more QAN ownership would be a Substantial Shareholder and any Substantial Shareholder can have a disproportionate effect on the share price of a company just by the statements they make to the ASX and/or by their utterances in the market-place and media.
The Two Brand Strategy is just another strategy. Albeit, a complex and far reaching one.
Nonetheless, it can be set aside by competing commercial strategies that save Australian Jobs and provide better returns to Australian Shareholders.
Regretfully I see no evidence thus far, that this pathway to job security, (one well trodden by US and Irish Pilots), is even on the radar of AIPA and/or AFAP.
If you are not over 55 and want to protect the career you have invested your life and your life savings in, best you try to get AIPA & AFAP to Think United!
Good luck
However, notwithstanding what is necessary to achieve it, it is possible, even now, to save Qantas from a strategy that will have QF will cover off the main network points and ‘J* Offshore’ the rest.
A ‘Qantas Jetstar Employee Share Trust’ with 5%or more QAN ownership would be a Substantial Shareholder and any Substantial Shareholder can have a disproportionate effect on the share price of a company just by the statements they make to the ASX and/or by their utterances in the market-place and media.
The Two Brand Strategy is just another strategy. Albeit, a complex and far reaching one.
Nonetheless, it can be set aside by competing commercial strategies that save Australian Jobs and provide better returns to Australian Shareholders.
Regretfully I see no evidence thus far, that this pathway to job security, (one well trodden by US and Irish Pilots), is even on the radar of AIPA and/or AFAP.
If you are not over 55 and want to protect the career you have invested your life and your life savings in, best you try to get AIPA & AFAP to Think United!
Good luck
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Pipedreams WoodenEye, Pipedreams.
Sorry to rain on your parade but you are kidding right??
It's all over red rover. I stayed for over 10 years mate, and all I ever saw was the continual deterioration and undercutting of professionals by professionals. I decided to take control of my own future and not have it dictated to me by some oxygen thief/thieves who won't and don't have my best interests at heart. Besides, the QF group of pilots is so splintered and dysfunctional that it makes me sick in the guts. There will never repeat NEVER be solidarity amongst pilots in this country, and to even think differently is totally dillussional. IMHO of course, but more than happy to be proven wrong. I will not hold my breath in anticipation however.
Sorry to rain on your parade but you are kidding right??
It's all over red rover. I stayed for over 10 years mate, and all I ever saw was the continual deterioration and undercutting of professionals by professionals. I decided to take control of my own future and not have it dictated to me by some oxygen thief/thieves who won't and don't have my best interests at heart. Besides, the QF group of pilots is so splintered and dysfunctional that it makes me sick in the guts. There will never repeat NEVER be solidarity amongst pilots in this country, and to even think differently is totally dillussional. IMHO of course, but more than happy to be proven wrong. I will not hold my breath in anticipation however.
Last edited by Normasars; 17th Jul 2010 at 02:04.
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I know it's audacious, but I am not kidding. Employee ownership was part of how Air Lingus fended off Ryan Air’s attempted takeover and Southwest Airlines is built on it.
Necessity is the mother of invention and it will be interesting to see if what is going down is enough to overcome what you describe as: ‘splintered and dysfunctional behaviour’ Normasar.
For the sake of aviation in Australia, I too hope you’re wrong?
Necessity is the mother of invention and it will be interesting to see if what is going down is enough to overcome what you describe as: ‘splintered and dysfunctional behaviour’ Normasar.
For the sake of aviation in Australia, I too hope you’re wrong?
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WoodenEye,
I like your optimism but please, if you want to compare apples and oranges go right ahead. The Air Lingus/Ryanair attempted take over and the Southwest scenario are NOTHING like what is happening here.
Here, employees are faced with a management hell bent on destroying their own local employees T&C's. There is no threat of a hostile takeover ALA Air Lingus, and the employees at Southwest were never in the "gun" like what is happening with QF Group employees here. The management of Southwest values its staff and treats them with respect and dignity. Actually, the Southwest main man is one of the most loved and respected CEOs in business today.
QANTAS' catch cry is "THE SPIRIT OF AUSTRALIA". You have got to be kidding me. What a slap in the face to the 35000 odd Australian employees that are the heart and soul of this operation.
The management "culture" within QF these days is one of undermining and bullying its employees, and outsourcing ALL labour costs to the lowest possible bidder. In other words, a low cost third world labour pool.
So WoodenEye, as I said if you want to compare Apples and Oranges go right ahead. But I prefer to compare Apples with Apples mate. You guys are on a very limited time frame I'm afraid.
But the biggest irony in this whole mess is that the undercutters are now being undercut. The writing is on the wall and very plain to see.
I like your optimism but please, if you want to compare apples and oranges go right ahead. The Air Lingus/Ryanair attempted take over and the Southwest scenario are NOTHING like what is happening here.
Here, employees are faced with a management hell bent on destroying their own local employees T&C's. There is no threat of a hostile takeover ALA Air Lingus, and the employees at Southwest were never in the "gun" like what is happening with QF Group employees here. The management of Southwest values its staff and treats them with respect and dignity. Actually, the Southwest main man is one of the most loved and respected CEOs in business today.
QANTAS' catch cry is "THE SPIRIT OF AUSTRALIA". You have got to be kidding me. What a slap in the face to the 35000 odd Australian employees that are the heart and soul of this operation.
The management "culture" within QF these days is one of undermining and bullying its employees, and outsourcing ALL labour costs to the lowest possible bidder. In other words, a low cost third world labour pool.
So WoodenEye, as I said if you want to compare Apples and Oranges go right ahead. But I prefer to compare Apples with Apples mate. You guys are on a very limited time frame I'm afraid.
But the biggest irony in this whole mess is that the undercutters are now being undercut. The writing is on the wall and very plain to see.
Employee ownership will work when the employees are under threat from company bankruptcy or wide spread job losses.
At the moment changes at QF are occurring insidiously with no short term significant impact! What employee group will want to invest $200k in an airline stock in this current environment where they could retire with a loss on their initial investment.
Apply some shock and it may work, but until then the future is quite clear.
At the moment changes at QF are occurring insidiously with no short term significant impact! What employee group will want to invest $200k in an airline stock in this current environment where they could retire with a loss on their initial investment.
Apply some shock and it may work, but until then the future is quite clear.
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The difficulties are acknowledged, but the numbers are not as daunting has one might think.
Based on 2,300 Million Shares on issue, a Qantas Jetstar cohort of 6,000 Pilots & Engineers, a share price of <$2.50 and a debt to equity ratio of 4:1; a leveraged Qantas Employee Share Trust (QEST) would become a substantial (>5%) shareholder, if each of the 6000 person cohort invested $10,000 and a financial institution could be persuaded to staple a $40,000 loan to each investment.
Based on the cost benefit alternative, it makes good financial sense and should the Trust be able to persuade Qantas Institutional Investors that growing the Two Brand Strategy internationally (ex Asia) will not only offshore jobs, but also make the Qantas Jetstar increasingly irrelevant to the AA/ITA consortium and reduce returns to shareholders, expect they will want that point of view represented in the boardroom.
If you believe that Qantas needs a new vision, suggest you let your respective Association know. It is achievable, but only if it's what the employees want.
Think United!
Based on 2,300 Million Shares on issue, a Qantas Jetstar cohort of 6,000 Pilots & Engineers, a share price of <$2.50 and a debt to equity ratio of 4:1; a leveraged Qantas Employee Share Trust (QEST) would become a substantial (>5%) shareholder, if each of the 6000 person cohort invested $10,000 and a financial institution could be persuaded to staple a $40,000 loan to each investment.
Based on the cost benefit alternative, it makes good financial sense and should the Trust be able to persuade Qantas Institutional Investors that growing the Two Brand Strategy internationally (ex Asia) will not only offshore jobs, but also make the Qantas Jetstar increasingly irrelevant to the AA/ITA consortium and reduce returns to shareholders, expect they will want that point of view represented in the boardroom.
If you believe that Qantas needs a new vision, suggest you let your respective Association know. It is achievable, but only if it's what the employees want.
Think United!
The delivery dates are still variable!
Boeing says delivery of first 787 may be delayed to 2011
NEW YORK, July 15, 2010 (AFP) - Aerospace giant Boeing said Thursday it might delay to 2011 the delivery of the first 787 Dreamliner aircraft scheduled at the end of this year.
"Our plan remains to deliver the 1st 787 Dreamliner at end of 2010. Although, we could see it move a few weeks into 2011," Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice-president Scott Fancher said in messages on Twitter, the micro-blogging service.
He rejected any notion that the delay was due to performance problems in long-range, wide-bodied, twin engine jetliner.
"The 787 continues to perform very well. We've found nothing in flight test to diminish our confidence in its ability," he said.
Last month, Boeing said it had detected a "workmanship issue" with the horizontal stabilizer of the Dreamliner aircraft but it expected to remain on track for its first delivery by the end of the year.
But Fancher said: "On the horizontal stabilizer issue, inspection and rework of the current 787 airplanes are complete."
The horizontal stabilizer is a component in the rear of the aircraft that is designed to stabilize it in flight. It is made by Italy's Alenia.
The aircraft's innovative structure -- 50 percent of it is made up of composite materials -- and its manufacture in more than 100 sites has created many technical problems for Boeing.
It's first flight test was held December 22, 2009, two years behind schedule.
by Ben Perry © 2010 AFP
NEW YORK, July 15, 2010 (AFP) - Aerospace giant Boeing said Thursday it might delay to 2011 the delivery of the first 787 Dreamliner aircraft scheduled at the end of this year.
"Our plan remains to deliver the 1st 787 Dreamliner at end of 2010. Although, we could see it move a few weeks into 2011," Boeing Commercial Airplanes vice-president Scott Fancher said in messages on Twitter, the micro-blogging service.
He rejected any notion that the delay was due to performance problems in long-range, wide-bodied, twin engine jetliner.
"The 787 continues to perform very well. We've found nothing in flight test to diminish our confidence in its ability," he said.
Last month, Boeing said it had detected a "workmanship issue" with the horizontal stabilizer of the Dreamliner aircraft but it expected to remain on track for its first delivery by the end of the year.
But Fancher said: "On the horizontal stabilizer issue, inspection and rework of the current 787 airplanes are complete."
The horizontal stabilizer is a component in the rear of the aircraft that is designed to stabilize it in flight. It is made by Italy's Alenia.
The aircraft's innovative structure -- 50 percent of it is made up of composite materials -- and its manufacture in more than 100 sites has created many technical problems for Boeing.
It's first flight test was held December 22, 2009, two years behind schedule.
by Ben Perry © 2010 AFP
