Detrimental effects of media coverage (QF)
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Teresa - not sure which "Engineers Union" you are referring to. From your example, you appear to refer to LAMEs, however I believe their EBA bargaining is yet to commence. If you are referring to the Professional Engs, I have not seen any of their publicity referring directly/specifically to any of the recent "events".
Nevertheless, do not believe that QF, specifically QF mgmt, is innocent and helpless to prevent the brand damage you refer to. Their "style" of EBA "negotiation" with almost all unions typically leaves little other ultimate recourse for the union other than to turn to the media. Add some lingering and widespread "disengagement" issues throughout the rest of the staff, and you have the recipe for the PR debacle we are currently witnessing.
Nevertheless, do not believe that QF, specifically QF mgmt, is innocent and helpless to prevent the brand damage you refer to. Their "style" of EBA "negotiation" with almost all unions typically leaves little other ultimate recourse for the union other than to turn to the media. Add some lingering and widespread "disengagement" issues throughout the rest of the staff, and you have the recipe for the PR debacle we are currently witnessing.
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How much of this crap is being fueled by the Engineers Union who are hot after a pay increase.
But the reality is continue to damage the brand is going to cause long term effects, and the "nervous nellies" are going to look elsewhere for their trip to Thailand or wherever.
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I think that teaser greene's post is typical of what Qantas is allowing the media to publish.
Most people think that the current engineers dispute is a continuation of the Protected Industrial Action initiated by the ALAEAand that occurred 18 months ago.The company does nothing to correct the media from showing images of AMEs & LAMEs working on aircraft.
The current dispute is between Qantas & APSEMA,who are termed the Professional engineers.These are the suit and tie engineers who work in offices at the main bases.
But what Qantas is allowing to be seen & and not corrected in the media,is the untruth that it is the ALAEA that is indispute.By constantly using the term "engineers", Joe Public believes that all Qantas engineers are taking industrial action,when the truth is probably closer to only about 300 professional engineers.
But then I guess if the media showed a group of guys & gals sitting at desks in an office,answering phones & working on computers,and not pretty pictures of engineers working on aircraft,it would hardly raise an eyebrow with most punters.
Most people think that the current engineers dispute is a continuation of the Protected Industrial Action initiated by the ALAEAand that occurred 18 months ago.The company does nothing to correct the media from showing images of AMEs & LAMEs working on aircraft.
The current dispute is between Qantas & APSEMA,who are termed the Professional engineers.These are the suit and tie engineers who work in offices at the main bases.
But what Qantas is allowing to be seen & and not corrected in the media,is the untruth that it is the ALAEA that is indispute.By constantly using the term "engineers", Joe Public believes that all Qantas engineers are taking industrial action,when the truth is probably closer to only about 300 professional engineers.
But then I guess if the media showed a group of guys & gals sitting at desks in an office,answering phones & working on computers,and not pretty pictures of engineers working on aircraft,it would hardly raise an eyebrow with most punters.
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a bit of perspective
1. When it comes to media QF are poor performers - it's a cultural hangover from Dixon's era. Joyce is trying to fluff it up but the real agenda is say nothing and it will go away.
If you want to mitigate a story then be the one giving the story - not waiting to be the token respondent. Then when you do respond use real operational people not pollie leftovers. (eg MFB in Melbourne uses operational firefighters at the scene - some a bit rough but all have cred)
2. When it comes to journalists - the rules of the game are different - balance and fact checking are no longer necessary nor is mature knowledge. It's either reactive tabloid and inarticulate or just Friday Australian puff piece.
3. When it comes to educating journalists the aviation industry and the respective unions get a D minus.
4. Yes the engineers are players in the QF blues game (and good on them), but they do need to be a bit more strategic rather than just "I told you so", reactive 'incident opportunists' (eg. nil parts, an ever growing hold list due insufficient time - even the new toys have hold lists that read like an inventory)
The big & real issue is that each of the major RPT carriers have a different SMS with vastly different parametres in respect of reporting thresholds, despite some token reulatory requirements (although these appear optional for some). This is one reason why QF's 'failures' are more prominent than JQ or DJ. This relates to the operational environment as well as maintenance.
The real question that needs an intelligent media run is the use by ALL CARRIERS of weak and bureacratic regulatory environments that are white-anting of safety in Australian skies and why the regulators (plural) and pollies are letting it happen.
Before the wrath of company ppruners, Qf bashers and LCC heroes hit the reply button - list all the incidents, maintenance and ops from all airlines and then make note of the regulatory outcome - some very serious stuff has been allowed with little or in some cases no action.
AT
If you want to mitigate a story then be the one giving the story - not waiting to be the token respondent. Then when you do respond use real operational people not pollie leftovers. (eg MFB in Melbourne uses operational firefighters at the scene - some a bit rough but all have cred)
2. When it comes to journalists - the rules of the game are different - balance and fact checking are no longer necessary nor is mature knowledge. It's either reactive tabloid and inarticulate or just Friday Australian puff piece.
3. When it comes to educating journalists the aviation industry and the respective unions get a D minus.
4. Yes the engineers are players in the QF blues game (and good on them), but they do need to be a bit more strategic rather than just "I told you so", reactive 'incident opportunists' (eg. nil parts, an ever growing hold list due insufficient time - even the new toys have hold lists that read like an inventory)
The big & real issue is that each of the major RPT carriers have a different SMS with vastly different parametres in respect of reporting thresholds, despite some token reulatory requirements (although these appear optional for some). This is one reason why QF's 'failures' are more prominent than JQ or DJ. This relates to the operational environment as well as maintenance.
The real question that needs an intelligent media run is the use by ALL CARRIERS of weak and bureacratic regulatory environments that are white-anting of safety in Australian skies and why the regulators (plural) and pollies are letting it happen.
Before the wrath of company ppruners, Qf bashers and LCC heroes hit the reply button - list all the incidents, maintenance and ops from all airlines and then make note of the regulatory outcome - some very serious stuff has been allowed with little or in some cases no action.
AT
Last edited by airtags; 8th Apr 2010 at 21:31. Reason: former journalsist stilll can't spell
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It will be interesting to see if Virgin Blue cops the same treatment from the media as Qantas has when their engineers follow suite.
The Australian article
Surely the general public gets tired of these media beat ups of events....
But there are some dumb people that believe everything the media tells them.
I thought the media was meant to report the news not create it
The Australian article
Surely the general public gets tired of these media beat ups of events....
But there are some dumb people that believe everything the media tells them.
I thought the media was meant to report the news not create it
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I wonder if Alan Joyce reads this most prestigious of blogs, because it would seem that if he did he must have heeded the writings on his screen.
He has sent an open letter to all FFs in regard to the dramas over the last week. Whilst it is a bit mushy I reckon it is a step in the right direction. And what he has written is pretty damn true in regard to things like window cracks and engine surges.
I think it will pay dividends to tell the truth instead of trying to pretend nothing ever happens. Now all they need to do is continue this openess inside the terminal and tell customers if they are being delayed why and for how long. I believe this is customer service which is something that Qantas has missed for a long time.
He has sent an open letter to all FFs in regard to the dramas over the last week. Whilst it is a bit mushy I reckon it is a step in the right direction. And what he has written is pretty damn true in regard to things like window cracks and engine surges.
I think it will pay dividends to tell the truth instead of trying to pretend nothing ever happens. Now all they need to do is continue this openess inside the terminal and tell customers if they are being delayed why and for how long. I believe this is customer service which is something that Qantas has missed for a long time.
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I dunno about the rest of you guys but I am fast tiring of the media's reporting of relatively standard engineering incidents. ie
1) all these incidents that are occurring, and I'm sure its down to lack of maintenance (read cost cutting)
2) the fact that every time one of these "incidents" occur, Qantas and their apologists all jump up and down saying "there was no danger" it was a "routine fault" , blah, blah, blah
The time for excuses is long over. Qantas needs to get back to a proper "Australian" headcount for maintenance, and do it PROPERLY with fully trained engineeers who have pride in their WORLDCLASS workmanship. Not some skeleton staff that have been beaten into submission by beancounters, and who's morale is at all time lows (and the resulting "she'll be right, close enough is good enough, do I have to work overtime AGAIN, will I still have a job next week, etc that the beancounters regime has fostered)
I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of
1) all these incidents that are occurring, and I'm sure its down to lack of maintenance (read cost cutting)I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of
1) all these incidents that are occurring, and I'm sure its down to lack of maintenance (read cost cutting)I don't know about you but I'm getting tired of
2) the fact that every time one of these "incidents" occur, Qantas and their apologists all jump up and down saying "there was no danger" it was a "routine fault" , blah, blah, blah
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You truly have no idea what you are talking about, do you?
Suggest you take a long look in the mirror and then ask yourself who "has no idea what he is talking about".
"Risk" is for beancounters, "Preventative Maintenance" (or interval-based maintenance) is for Airlines. the current "Fix on Fail" mentality of Qantas is what is causing all these problems that never existed under the past maintenance schemes.
Last edited by p.j.m; 10th Apr 2010 at 23:34.
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Deux is right in that he states:
Pjm, you too are right when you state:
Whilst I wholeheartedly agree with you, your problem Pjm is this: you cannot tie these incidents to the lack of good quality Australian maintenance. There simply is no proof. Whilst there is no proof, your media battle is cut out for you.
virtually all that it being printed is just sensationalist clap trap
The time for excuses is long over. Qantas needs to get back to a proper "Australian" headcount for maintenance, and do it PROPERLY with fully trained engineeers who have pride in their WORLDCLASS workmanship. Not some skeleton staff that have been beaten into submission by beancounters
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Cathay had a MAJOR incident in the last day or so. So far the only place I have found reference to it was here on PPRUNE.
One wonders what would have been the coverage if a QF A330 had landed in HKG with both engines shut-down, 230 kts over the fence and a full evacuation at the end of it. (No criticism of Cathay here, the pilots evidently did a fantastic job with the cards they were dealt..) but where is the reporting in the Australian media?
One wonders what would have been the coverage if a QF A330 had landed in HKG with both engines shut-down, 230 kts over the fence and a full evacuation at the end of it. (No criticism of Cathay here, the pilots evidently did a fantastic job with the cards they were dealt..) but where is the reporting in the Australian media?
Here's the reporting you're after CK:
Great effort from the blokes involved. It's a pity Qantas pilots aren't shown the same respect by the Australian media when they safely manage an in-flight emergency. 
Sydney Morning Herald
Australian pilots hailed as heroes after airliner engine failure
April 14, 2010 - 2:48PM
The Australian pilots of a Cathay Pacific flight who managed to steer an Airbus A330 plane to safety at Hong Kong's airport after both its engines malfunctioned, have been hailed as heroes by colleagues.
Cathay Pacific said in a statement the plane's left engine had shut down as the aircraft made its landing approach at Hong Kong's international airport yesterday with 309 passengers on a flight from Surabaya in Indonesia.
The right engine also began to "cut out inexplicably, leaving the (pilots) to cope with dips and surges in power and the prospect of the plane plunging into the sea short of (the airport)," the South China Morning Post reported.
The emergency landing caused all four tires on the left hand side of the plane to deflate, while two on the right side also deflated, the airline said. Passengers were evacuated on emergency inflatable slides. There were eight injuries.
"It was an amazing piece of piloting in extremely testing circumstances," one colleague of the two Australian pilots was quoted as saying by the South China Morning Post. "One engine was shut down completely and the other was going on and of. They effectively landed the plane on half an engine."
"Their stories will come out in due course when the investigation is complete but what they did was nothing short of heroic. It's a miracle they managed to get the plane down safely," the paper quoted another Cathay Pacific staff as saying.
Hong Kong's Civil Aviation department said it would investigate the "serious aircraft incident" and release a report in a month's time.
Australian pilots hailed as heroes after airliner engine failure
April 14, 2010 - 2:48PM
The Australian pilots of a Cathay Pacific flight who managed to steer an Airbus A330 plane to safety at Hong Kong's airport after both its engines malfunctioned, have been hailed as heroes by colleagues.
Cathay Pacific said in a statement the plane's left engine had shut down as the aircraft made its landing approach at Hong Kong's international airport yesterday with 309 passengers on a flight from Surabaya in Indonesia.
The right engine also began to "cut out inexplicably, leaving the (pilots) to cope with dips and surges in power and the prospect of the plane plunging into the sea short of (the airport)," the South China Morning Post reported.
The emergency landing caused all four tires on the left hand side of the plane to deflate, while two on the right side also deflated, the airline said. Passengers were evacuated on emergency inflatable slides. There were eight injuries.
"It was an amazing piece of piloting in extremely testing circumstances," one colleague of the two Australian pilots was quoted as saying by the South China Morning Post. "One engine was shut down completely and the other was going on and of. They effectively landed the plane on half an engine."
"Their stories will come out in due course when the investigation is complete but what they did was nothing short of heroic. It's a miracle they managed to get the plane down safely," the paper quoted another Cathay Pacific staff as saying.
Hong Kong's Civil Aviation department said it would investigate the "serious aircraft incident" and release a report in a month's time.
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Agreed. Some of the reporting is a bit suss however. I really doubt they would have flown from shortly after TOC to HKG on one engine.
I also seriously doubt this tidbit of info from a report in the SCMP.
Anyway it all in the Fragrant harbour forum. Well done guys.
I also seriously doubt this tidbit of info from a report in the SCMP.
A Cathay Pacific flight quality controller said it was extremely rare for an engine to break down during a flight unless it was hit by an object such as a bird or birds.
"Even with both engines dead, our planes still have a backup power supply that should allow it to glide for up to hour, with the help of flaps and spoilers.
"Even with both engines dead, our planes still have a backup power supply that should allow it to glide for up to hour, with the help of flaps and spoilers.
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Agree Transition Layer - I know the circumstances were different but both crews from this incident and the QF30 deserve praise. Instead the QF crew were largley ignored in terms of credit for handling such a rare incident.
If the pilots of the CX A330 were not "Australians", the story would have been buried in the news after other the other hard hitting news stories these days.......
If the pilots of the CX A330 were not "Australians", the story would have been buried in the news after other the other hard hitting news stories these days.......
I hear that terrified Qantas passengers are grounded across the European Continent after engineers became responsible for making Qantas aircraft unable to fly through volcanic ash. Other Qantas codeshare flights are also having similar problems.
Qantas' media department had no comment, other than
to say that it was part of an ongoing and disruptive campaign by its 'naughty, naughty staff'.
Qantas' media department had no comment, other than
to say that it was part of an ongoing and disruptive campaign by its 'naughty, naughty staff'.
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And now we've got some singer claiming that her group got "terrible treatment" on their flight... according to a radio report the group's antics & issues with phones caused a 15 minute delay to the flight.
Kelly Rowland in a rage over cabin crew | News.com.au
Frankly I'd side with the crew going by the kind of behaviour these celebrities usually display- seem to think they are exempt from rules... can't wait to hear the full story, I know some crew can talk to people like they are kids but honestly, if pax act like 5 year olds refusing to turn off phones and having a tantie about it, then maybe talking to them like 5 year olds is the only thing they respond to!!!
Kelly Rowland in a rage over cabin crew | News.com.au
Frankly I'd side with the crew going by the kind of behaviour these celebrities usually display- seem to think they are exempt from rules... can't wait to hear the full story, I know some crew can talk to people like they are kids but honestly, if pax act like 5 year olds refusing to turn off phones and having a tantie about it, then maybe talking to them like 5 year olds is the only thing they respond to!!!
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Shes just pis*ed shes not Beyoncé and has to take a commercial flight and not a private charted jet. Reading the comments by the readers of this artical they all support Qantas 
There is nothing more annoying than having the same crap re-bundled and sold on as a new product, as can be seen on the SMH website.
"Travellers should expect delays of up to a week"
and
"Qantas predicts delays could last a week "
Are almost identical articles with several paragraphs simply cut and paste from the original. Really?
When singers do this their stuff gets trashed.
"Travellers should expect delays of up to a week"
and
"Qantas predicts delays could last a week "
Are almost identical articles with several paragraphs simply cut and paste from the original. Really?
When singers do this their stuff gets trashed.
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Qantas' media department had no comment, other than
to say that it was part of an ongoing and disruptive campaign by its 'naughty, naughty staff'.
to say that it was part of an ongoing and disruptive campaign by its 'naughty, naughty staff'.
Qantas Management spotted their engineering teams leaving the area of Eyjafjallojokull with "secret volcano toolbags" shortly prior to the eruption
