NAS rears its head again
I own my aircraft. Do you own your hairdryer?
If I have an inferiority complex, you mate, have an elitist fixation. And what's with the hairdryer? Are you AC or DC?
If I have an inferiority complex, you mate, have an elitist fixation. And what's with the hairdryer? Are you AC or DC?
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elitist fixation
I got in the way within 500ft vertically, but hemispherically where I should be.OK so far?
The 182 lost situational awareness. I hadn't.
I offered to implement "alerted see and avoid" because MB CTR didn't want to talk to me. I offered to climb. I was in "Indian territory". The 182 was there because he "could" be there and he was in "the system".
I offered to implement "alerted see and avoid" because MB CTR didn't want to talk to me. I offered to climb. I was in "Indian territory". The 182 was there because he "could" be there and he was in "the system".
I broadcast my call sign, position, height, track
If a VFR broadcasts on my area frequencies without indicating he is calling me specifically, as opposed to just broadcasting into the ether (which happens a lot), they wont get an answer from the centre.
Do you own your hairdryer?And what's with the hairdryer? Are you AC or DC?
2/It drys hair, funnily enough (name says it all really)
3/Not really any of your business but I am heterosexual (sorry to disappoint you), I am confident in my sexuality that I dont have to prove my manliness by not owning a hairdryer. I draw the line at manbags & lipstick though.
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Was more like a grin Bloggs.
But I do apologise for getting "uppity"
rotorblades;
I did use the callsign MB CTR. I was ignored. That is my point. (from one heterosexual to another).
But you could if an IFR was involved. Isn't that what the thread is all about?
But I do apologise for getting "uppity"
rotorblades;
I did use the callsign MB CTR. I was ignored. That is my point. (from one heterosexual to another).
Its still upto the aircraft in G to avoid each other. Its still not upto ATC to separate you from him or vice versa.
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Frank,
the original hairdryer vs colt remark was tongue in cheek, obviously picked the wrong smiley. on the smiley note why is there an al-qaeda smiley (
)?
Then ATC should have responded to you, unless something else was going on behind the scenes which none of us will ever know.
In theory an IFR could be turned or climbed/descended but it is not usual practice nor necessarily recommended, still have to be mindful of such things as LSALT/MSA, other conflictions, etc etc. In G it is see & avoid airspace, even with radar coverage & one aircraft IFR.
I cant speak for the controller in question, can only give some possibles on what he/she/it might have been doing:
There are several useful tools we have on the console and it may have been assessed that you would both miss and so didnt update until after you had passed (but ATC may have passed the TI as it looked like it may be close - i..e you'd see each other and then grumble that no TI was passed).
ATC may not have heard your transmissions due to poor coverage, aircraft on another frequency, telephone call (only single earpiece headsets so both phone & R/t come through same hole).
I'd rather have more VFR calling for a RIS (especially whilst flying through E) than relying on 'see & avoid' with RPT traffic. (a lot of controllers will probably grumble at me for saying that, but then a RIS can always be denied).
the original hairdryer vs colt remark was tongue in cheek, obviously picked the wrong smiley. on the smiley note why is there an al-qaeda smiley (
)?
I did use the callsign MB CTR
But you could if an IFR was involved. Isn't that what the thread is all about?
I cant speak for the controller in question, can only give some possibles on what he/she/it might have been doing:
There are several useful tools we have on the console and it may have been assessed that you would both miss and so didnt update until after you had passed (but ATC may have passed the TI as it looked like it may be close - i..e you'd see each other and then grumble that no TI was passed).
ATC may not have heard your transmissions due to poor coverage, aircraft on another frequency, telephone call (only single earpiece headsets so both phone & R/t come through same hole).
I'd rather have more VFR calling for a RIS (especially whilst flying through E) than relying on 'see & avoid' with RPT traffic. (a lot of controllers will probably grumble at me for saying that, but then a RIS can always be denied).
I did use the callsign MB CTR. I was ignored. That is my point. (from one heterosexual to another).
Frank,
The phrase about having ones cake and eating it too comes to mind.
You wish to be FREE IN E, yet you have a problem with being ignored.
The facts are ... you were VFR in E. The Controller's responsibility is the IFR. The Controller's priority is IFRs ( not only the one you interacted with, but the other dozen on another frequency). You say the IFR lost SA (your judgement). Well, do something about it. The Controller will never direct you to manouver in E ... so don't seek his direction.
You have your independence in E ... use it.
The phrase about having ones cake and eating it too comes to mind.
You wish to be FREE IN E, yet you have a problem with being ignored.
The facts are ... you were VFR in E. The Controller's responsibility is the IFR. The Controller's priority is IFRs ( not only the one you interacted with, but the other dozen on another frequency). You say the IFR lost SA (your judgement). Well, do something about it. The Controller will never direct you to manouver in E ... so don't seek his direction.
You have your independence in E ... use it.
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The facts are ... you were VFR in E
And it was Melbourne Centre that I directed my calls to.
Let 'moi' offer a thought on this one.........
DTI, FIS, Weathers on request, refuelling messages....and the list, including coffee on arrival, goes on and on.............
DTI, FIS, Weathers on request, refuelling messages....and the list, including coffee on arrival, goes on and on.............
Leadsled (if you're still there),
Considering your position is that ... when a particular volume of Airspace becomes "safe" , with a particular Classification in place, it's illogical to go to a higher classification ... as it's already "safe". (except for the naughty words I've used, I think I've summarised your position. Let me know if I'm incorrect) ...
How do you reconcile the Broome ... Class E with Fries ... situation?
If they considered that Class E was not "safe enough" as is, don't you think they should have gone up to the next classification?
Isn't that why we have a Classification System?
Or, do you think that we should continue with this "Peculiar to Australia" method?
Considering your position is that ... when a particular volume of Airspace becomes "safe" , with a particular Classification in place, it's illogical to go to a higher classification ... as it's already "safe". (except for the naughty words I've used, I think I've summarised your position. Let me know if I'm incorrect) ...
How do you reconcile the Broome ... Class E with Fries ... situation?
If they considered that Class E was not "safe enough" as is, don't you think they should have gone up to the next classification?
Isn't that why we have a Classification System?
Or, do you think that we should continue with this "Peculiar to Australia" method?
When senior bods at AirServices start acting to ensure the paying public is being protected. It shows very starkly, the error of TRUSTING the protection provided by flying in Class E controlled airspace-
Broadcast Area...mitigating against unknown aircraft!
Broadcast Area...mitigating against unknown aircraft!
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OZBUSDRIVER;
When did I request any "services"? The last "services" I got was from "Flight Service" and came in the form of a cup of coffee. But then that was in 1969 and I was paying Air Nav Charges. But you wouldn't know about them would you?
My posts are about being ignored when I was attempting to interract for the sake of safety with IFR traffic that was being worked by Melbourne Centre. Of the 7.5M sq kms of Australia, a C182 and myself found each other in intersecting circumstances but with 500ft of vertical separation.
Are you suggesting that advising someone of one's position is a "service"?
Are you suggesting acknowledging that is a "service"?
I suppose asking for Area QNH is a service, but I haven't done that for years in case I get a bill. Perhaps I should just not say anything?
peuce;
Your subtleness is not wasted.
When did I request any "services"? The last "services" I got was from "Flight Service" and came in the form of a cup of coffee. But then that was in 1969 and I was paying Air Nav Charges. But you wouldn't know about them would you?
My posts are about being ignored when I was attempting to interract for the sake of safety with IFR traffic that was being worked by Melbourne Centre. Of the 7.5M sq kms of Australia, a C182 and myself found each other in intersecting circumstances but with 500ft of vertical separation.
Are you suggesting that advising someone of one's position is a "service"?
Are you suggesting acknowledging that is a "service"?
I suppose asking for Area QNH is a service, but I haven't done that for years in case I get a bill. Perhaps I should just not say anything?
peuce;
Your subtleness is not wasted.
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Frank...while your isolated bad experience is a great yarn......and I love a cheeky thread drift like the next guy.....do you think we could get back to the cockup of a plan for the two new D zones?
J
J
My fault ....
And I'll bring it back ...
I have this bee in my bonnet about getting chatted by the Nastronauts about getting with it, about forgetting our custom airspace system and about moving on to the "World's Best Practice " . The Minister has also shoved that down my throat ...
Yet ... here we are with the Dodgey Brothers from OAR dumping the Cryllic Alphabet based E with Fries on us .... because they couldn't possibly let anyone else have their way.
P.S. The Nastronauts have been pretty quiet too. Come on, Jessica Watson has arrived home safely ... now back to work you guys ... come and throw some punches!
And I'll bring it back ...
I have this bee in my bonnet about getting chatted by the Nastronauts about getting with it, about forgetting our custom airspace system and about moving on to the "World's Best Practice " . The Minister has also shoved that down my throat ...
The Government expects that CASA will continue the reform of Australia‟s airspace and move towards closer alignment with the ICAO system and adoption of proven international best practice.
The Government fully supports the use of the internationally-recognised ICAO airspace classification system (Class A to G airspace) in airspace administration.
ICAO standards and recommended practices (SARPs) also provide an important basis for airspace administration. The airspace strategy requires any deviations from ICAO SARPs to be well justified, documented, and formally notified to ICAO as a difference.
P.S. The Nastronauts have been pretty quiet too. Come on, Jessica Watson has arrived home safely ... now back to work you guys ... come and throw some punches!
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Jabawocky;
Good idea. People are reading things that were not written.
It wasn't a bad experience. There is no anger. In fact it was an example that proved alerted see and avoid works whether in or out of any radar environment when "three way" communications break down. It also highlights the need for "out of the system" traffic to be noted and acknowledged if they can be seen. Ignore them and they will probably not give advice in the future. Simple as that.
With the new D zones, what happens at Alice Springs now when the tower shuts down? Doesn't it go to G? Perhaps we should discuss this with any recorded problems there? Is there radar at Broome and if not, why would a transponder be a requirement? You don't need one at Bankstown do you?
Owen Stanley;
Talking of Dick. He is open to a tower tour last I heard. Whatever happened to that offer?
Good idea. People are reading things that were not written.
It wasn't a bad experience. There is no anger. In fact it was an example that proved alerted see and avoid works whether in or out of any radar environment when "three way" communications break down. It also highlights the need for "out of the system" traffic to be noted and acknowledged if they can be seen. Ignore them and they will probably not give advice in the future. Simple as that.
With the new D zones, what happens at Alice Springs now when the tower shuts down? Doesn't it go to G? Perhaps we should discuss this with any recorded problems there? Is there radar at Broome and if not, why would a transponder be a requirement? You don't need one at Bankstown do you?
Owen Stanley;
Talking of Dick. He is open to a tower tour last I heard. Whatever happened to that offer?
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No worries Frank
but See and Avoid only works...WHEN it works. I am constantly amazed how often even with radar advice how hard a threat is to see. When in IMC and arriving at say YCAB, you get very good information on what is happening in the area, you get visual and then start looking.....it is quite amazing what you can not find quickly and often it takes another pair of eyes
What happens at most D towers I imagine....G. See and avoid works well between 10pm and 6am.
No there is no Radar at BME...yet...but there may be something one day if you read between the lines.
Why a transponder........well it helps with TCAS .....and future Radar/Wamlat.
And last I heard Owen is not in a tower, but I reckon his ML CEN experience would be a worthwile thing!
but See and Avoid only works...WHEN it works. I am constantly amazed how often even with radar advice how hard a threat is to see. When in IMC and arriving at say YCAB, you get very good information on what is happening in the area, you get visual and then start looking.....it is quite amazing what you can not find quickly and often it takes another pair of eyes
What happens at most D towers I imagine....G. See and avoid works well between 10pm and 6am
.No there is no Radar at BME...yet...but there may be something one day if you read between the lines.
Why a transponder........well it helps with TCAS .....and future Radar/Wamlat.
And last I heard Owen is not in a tower, but I reckon his ML CEN experience would be a worthwile thing!