Team AIPA blames others for poor showing at FWA
Titan,
Well you certainly got that right!!
And then what a hate-filled impassioned diatribe followed. You seem to be another person who has a log-sized chip on your shoulder because of what was said by some past AIPA President years ago. Titan, he and his mates have long since retired, I'm sure! It's a very different game now and it's time for you to move on.
Over the last 10 years, QF mainline pilots have seen Dixon lie about his intentions for the LCC - "It will never compete against Qantas mainline"; then lie about an international LCC - "We have no plans to form an Intenrational Low Cost Carrier"; and have then seen a contraction of mainline as the expansion and promotions have gone to Jetstar.
Titan, let me generalise about you for a while, because you and your like-minded comrades are pure gold at the moment. You can sit on your hands and do nothing, take the expansion and the upgrades, listen to QF mainline pilots rueing their lack of promotion opportunities and think, "Serves those smug arrogant bastards right!". To preserve mainline, AIPA has no option but to lobby and fight to improve your conditions (and thus remove the relative disparity between the two organisations). So you get the best of both worlds Titan - you get to "stick it up Qantas pilots' while also reaping any benefits in T&C that AIPA may win for you in the meantime. But, hey, I'm only generalizing here.
The Qantas Group is no doubt embarked on a deliberate campaign to cut mainline back as hard as they can. You and your like-minded comrades should be hoping for all you're worth that AIPA can resist, because if Qantas succeeds in gutting mainline, you guys will be next. You don't think that Jetstar NZ, Jetstar Asia and Jetstar Pacific aren't there to keep you guys on the leash? If it happens to us, you'll be next and if past performances are any idication, you'll have to buy your own vaseline when they come after you.
Caveat: The following is a generalisation....
And then what a hate-filled impassioned diatribe followed. You seem to be another person who has a log-sized chip on your shoulder because of what was said by some past AIPA President years ago. Titan, he and his mates have long since retired, I'm sure! It's a very different game now and it's time for you to move on.
Over the last 10 years, QF mainline pilots have seen Dixon lie about his intentions for the LCC - "It will never compete against Qantas mainline"; then lie about an international LCC - "We have no plans to form an Intenrational Low Cost Carrier"; and have then seen a contraction of mainline as the expansion and promotions have gone to Jetstar.
Titan, let me generalise about you for a while, because you and your like-minded comrades are pure gold at the moment. You can sit on your hands and do nothing, take the expansion and the upgrades, listen to QF mainline pilots rueing their lack of promotion opportunities and think, "Serves those smug arrogant bastards right!". To preserve mainline, AIPA has no option but to lobby and fight to improve your conditions (and thus remove the relative disparity between the two organisations). So you get the best of both worlds Titan - you get to "stick it up Qantas pilots' while also reaping any benefits in T&C that AIPA may win for you in the meantime. But, hey, I'm only generalizing here.
The Qantas Group is no doubt embarked on a deliberate campaign to cut mainline back as hard as they can. You and your like-minded comrades should be hoping for all you're worth that AIPA can resist, because if Qantas succeeds in gutting mainline, you guys will be next. You don't think that Jetstar NZ, Jetstar Asia and Jetstar Pacific aren't there to keep you guys on the leash? If it happens to us, you'll be next and if past performances are any idication, you'll have to buy your own vaseline when they come after you.
Well Said Titan.
im sure if the ghost numbers return the JQ F/os will want QF f/O positions in return on QF salary, effectively leaving close to Zero F/Os in Jetstar. Jetstar is a subsidiary and is a separate entitiy to Qantas mainline if you want free passage you should allow it in Easterns, Qantas link, all entities, why pick only on jetstar. At least the displaced Darwin pilots could go maybe on a Dash 8 in their home as it seems they are barely worthy of this.
Have also heard more DECs are coming to Jetstar ,guys overseas already called for interviews on wide and narrow bodies due to a lack of experience in JQ .Om 1 requirements to change again thanks to many unneccessary diversions and damaged Aircraft. Jetstar has one of the most hail damaged fleets in the world i have been told, a very visual indication of inexperience.
personally ill be staying in QF as an F/o while the salary and conditions remain the same. No Qantas captain will ever go to Jetstar so more DECs will be required, a 15 year f/o unfortunately has less experience than a DEC.
that is why everybody hates the DECs and the only weapon against them is seniority , use it wisely.
im sure if the ghost numbers return the JQ F/os will want QF f/O positions in return on QF salary, effectively leaving close to Zero F/Os in Jetstar. Jetstar is a subsidiary and is a separate entitiy to Qantas mainline if you want free passage you should allow it in Easterns, Qantas link, all entities, why pick only on jetstar. At least the displaced Darwin pilots could go maybe on a Dash 8 in their home as it seems they are barely worthy of this.
Have also heard more DECs are coming to Jetstar ,guys overseas already called for interviews on wide and narrow bodies due to a lack of experience in JQ .Om 1 requirements to change again thanks to many unneccessary diversions and damaged Aircraft. Jetstar has one of the most hail damaged fleets in the world i have been told, a very visual indication of inexperience.
personally ill be staying in QF as an F/o while the salary and conditions remain the same. No Qantas captain will ever go to Jetstar so more DECs will be required, a 15 year f/o unfortunately has less experience than a DEC.
that is why everybody hates the DECs and the only weapon against them is seniority , use it wisely.
Nunc est bibendum
im sure if the ghost numbers return the JQ F/os will want QF f/O positions in return on QF salary,
if you want free passage you should allow it in Easterns, Qantas link, all entities, why pick only on jetstar.
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Shark Patrol
I think you strike right at the heart of what's different between you and me (and a few others here..).
I've never been one to sit on my freckle in an organisation if it isn't working for me. If your employer isn't cutting it for you, then there's a whole world out there.
A spot on a list doesn't mean you're entitled to diddly, and absolutely no-one is going to carve your career for you. That's certainly the case at QF these days, and that's a reality a few here seem to have trouble coming to terms with.
And as for DEC's being the nemisis. Well ... again, the world doesn't operate nor really care based on hurt feelings, little devils on your shoulders and sensless whining.
If you were serious and still are serious about preventing DEC's from joining, where is your IFALPA backed recruitment ban?
You see; you guys are trying to retrospectively undo your now perceived ills of times past.
But it's all too late;
*AIPA did stuff it ALL up a long time ago, created resentment and distrust - and no they're not "all retired"...
*How can the one union honestly represent two operations so obviously designed to internally compete?
If you didn't see that coming, then sorry, but you are naive.
*DEC's; were employed legally under the terms of either the then EBA or AWA. There was no industrial action to prevent their arrival. You could sooner hold back the tide than prevent experienced Captains from coming home, so long as the gate is open. Many would not have come if you had been organised in preventing it industrially at the time. So don't cry over that spilt milk now, let alone try and punish them through denying the morality (and legality) of a RoR. The "realignment" wasn't carried out in order of strict datal seniority, so why the hell should it apply now its happened?
The reason is obvious - it's OPPORTUNISM...
Some of you will need to grow up beyond your very tiny perception of how the world works if you are to succeed in this business.
To use the word "hated" and DEC in the same sentence implies nothing but insecurity and jealousy.
The savvy guys who were lucky enough to get a left seat as DEC's, are worldy and mature enough to see that for what it is.
The reasons DEC's were needed at JQ has been covered extensively in previous posts.
I think you strike right at the heart of what's different between you and me (and a few others here..).
I've never been one to sit on my freckle in an organisation if it isn't working for me. If your employer isn't cutting it for you, then there's a whole world out there.
A spot on a list doesn't mean you're entitled to diddly, and absolutely no-one is going to carve your career for you. That's certainly the case at QF these days, and that's a reality a few here seem to have trouble coming to terms with.
And as for DEC's being the nemisis. Well ... again, the world doesn't operate nor really care based on hurt feelings, little devils on your shoulders and sensless whining.
If you were serious and still are serious about preventing DEC's from joining, where is your IFALPA backed recruitment ban?
You see; you guys are trying to retrospectively undo your now perceived ills of times past.
But it's all too late;
*AIPA did stuff it ALL up a long time ago, created resentment and distrust - and no they're not "all retired"...
*How can the one union honestly represent two operations so obviously designed to internally compete?
If you didn't see that coming, then sorry, but you are naive.
*DEC's; were employed legally under the terms of either the then EBA or AWA. There was no industrial action to prevent their arrival. You could sooner hold back the tide than prevent experienced Captains from coming home, so long as the gate is open. Many would not have come if you had been organised in preventing it industrially at the time. So don't cry over that spilt milk now, let alone try and punish them through denying the morality (and legality) of a RoR. The "realignment" wasn't carried out in order of strict datal seniority, so why the hell should it apply now its happened?
The reason is obvious - it's OPPORTUNISM...
Some of you will need to grow up beyond your very tiny perception of how the world works if you are to succeed in this business.
To use the word "hated" and DEC in the same sentence implies nothing but insecurity and jealousy.
The savvy guys who were lucky enough to get a left seat as DEC's, are worldy and mature enough to see that for what it is.
The reasons DEC's were needed at JQ has been covered extensively in previous posts.
Titan,
Sorry, but you've got me confused. Where did I say anything about DECs? What I talked about in my most recent post was "promotions" - there is a bit of a difference there.
I suspect that you are a DEC yourself and you seem a bit paranoid about it. Having said that, you display some very interesting logic in the rest of your post.
I particularly liked the bit about "well you (AIPA) didn't do anything to stop it happening industrially". That's sort of a bit like blaming the police for not stopping a criminal offence from happening. "Well, it's not my fault for stealing if you didn't stop me".
Secondly, I assume that before you took up your DEC slot in Jetstar that you were overseas. Anyone who's been in Australia continuously for the last 10 years would know that indutrial action during the Howard years was next to impossible.
I'm also intrigued by your "well if you don't like it, then leave" attitude. Maybe you're Dixon trawling for fun on PPRuNe in retirement. That was his entire justification for his "reign of terror". "Well, things can't be that bad if nobody's leaving. Let's ratchet it up another notch or two!!"
You seem to me to be a person who's happy to go wherever there is personal advantage to be had. Good luck to you! Many pilots in Qantas don't want to move overseas, but that is becoming more of a real possibility with every announcement of Jetstar expansion.
So enjoy your little patch in the sunshine. When mainline's gone, they'll come after you. But I guess you'll have already left for greener pastures by then.
Sorry, but you've got me confused. Where did I say anything about DECs? What I talked about in my most recent post was "promotions" - there is a bit of a difference there.
I suspect that you are a DEC yourself and you seem a bit paranoid about it. Having said that, you display some very interesting logic in the rest of your post.
I particularly liked the bit about "well you (AIPA) didn't do anything to stop it happening industrially". That's sort of a bit like blaming the police for not stopping a criminal offence from happening. "Well, it's not my fault for stealing if you didn't stop me".
Secondly, I assume that before you took up your DEC slot in Jetstar that you were overseas. Anyone who's been in Australia continuously for the last 10 years would know that indutrial action during the Howard years was next to impossible.
I'm also intrigued by your "well if you don't like it, then leave" attitude. Maybe you're Dixon trawling for fun on PPRuNe in retirement. That was his entire justification for his "reign of terror". "Well, things can't be that bad if nobody's leaving. Let's ratchet it up another notch or two!!"
You seem to me to be a person who's happy to go wherever there is personal advantage to be had. Good luck to you! Many pilots in Qantas don't want to move overseas, but that is becoming more of a real possibility with every announcement of Jetstar expansion.
So enjoy your little patch in the sunshine. When mainline's gone, they'll come after you. But I guess you'll have already left for greener pastures by then.
Sorry dodgy,
hurt your feelings. well a group of mates from overseas have offered to fly JQ Aircraft on 5 year renewable contracts for less money than you , similar to how impulse undercut in the begining now its on again. they dont care no-mortgages etc a bit of a pay cut wont hurt. jetstar seem to like it.
The next EBA will probably not exist it will all be contract with the same pay cut.
good reason to stay in QF .
hurt your feelings. well a group of mates from overseas have offered to fly JQ Aircraft on 5 year renewable contracts for less money than you , similar to how impulse undercut in the begining now its on again. they dont care no-mortgages etc a bit of a pay cut wont hurt. jetstar seem to like it.
The next EBA will probably not exist it will all be contract with the same pay cut.
good reason to stay in QF .
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Shark, here's some mail! The reason you're "confused" is because not all of my post was directed at you specifically.
And mate, quit it with the hopeless paraphrasing and childish assumptions, a little more thought may suit you better.
Scooter, some mail for you too... Being that you're a pillock and all, maybe you should stay put, it's a big enough place to avoid blatant exposure.
And mate, quit it with the hopeless paraphrasing and childish assumptions, a little more thought may suit you better.
Scooter, some mail for you too... Being that you're a pillock and all, maybe you should stay put, it's a big enough place to avoid blatant exposure.
Last edited by titan uranus; 29th Jan 2010 at 20:05.
