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Appalling Qantas Decision

Old 19th Dec 2009, 10:51
  #21 (permalink)  
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This bit strikes me as odd:

Originally Posted by article
The Corrections Department was now subcontracting the work back to Sunnyfield.
If this is true then one of two things are happening:

1) Sunnyfield tried to put in a high bid to QANTAS and got caught out and then offered a lower price to Corrections.

2) There is pyramid tendering going on which is illegal.

Agree we don't know all the facts but the outcome could be quite interesting if Dept of Corrections get busted...
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 11:54
  #22 (permalink)  
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As an outsider, I've been wondering when someone would point out that Sunnyfield was then sub-contracted to do the work.

Qantas must follow a strictly commercial policy, agreed. It's not a charity.

On a strictly commercial level there is ony one possible conclusion. Whoever was responsible for this tender process was incompetent or corrupt, perhaps both.

What's the evidence for that? That the work was sub-contracted to Sunnyfield, presumably with the Corrections Department taking a slice. As always when something like this happens, the next question is which individual(s) have suddenly got some extra spending money. As we in the old world say, "Cui bono?"
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 19:46
  #23 (permalink)  
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The trouble with prison industries is that they are neither an industry nor a business.

Prisons have a supply of captive labour. They can charge as much or as little as they like, makes no difference, just screws up other businesses who try to "compete" with them.
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 21:55
  #24 (permalink)  

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Obviously no one considers this may have been a perfectly legitimate and cost effective business arrangement?

After a retendering process, Qantas contracted the work sealing earphones in plastic bags to the NSW Department of Corrective Services, rather than its long-time contractor, Sunnyfield, which employs disabled people.

"We undertook a review with all our [packaging] services in NSW," said a Qantas spokeswoman. "Sunnyfield was not successful in this process and the work went to Corrective Services."

The Federal Government's parliamentary secretary for disabilities, Bill Shorten, said he had made inquiries with Qantas over the matter.

The Corrections Department was now subcontracting the work back to Sunnyfield.
I read the above that, rather than have a number of, or multiple contracts for packging (headphones, cutlery etc), Qantas may have amalgamated a number of sub contracts into one packaging contract, Corrective Services secured the contract on commercial merit and capability and sub contracted one packaging contract back to Sunnyfield? Perhaps Sunnyfield did not have the commercial capability to undertake all packaging contracts?

Rather than the perpetual, boringly repetitious Qantas bias and knocking and selective journalist bias and knocking that gets posted to PPRuNe, this may be a perfectly normal, cost effective business transaction with benefits to all parties?

I have no idea what occurred, but I am prepared to have a far more open mind than many of the anti Qantas brigade that repetitiously post here!
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 22:11
  #25 (permalink)  
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Last edited by help me jebus; 21st Jan 2018 at 02:50.
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 22:33
  #26 (permalink)  
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Red face I can't believe some of the tripe written here.

Sunnyfield - Our History

Sunnyfield has been in existence for MANY years and IS a charity which does fantastic work. Income from the various businesses is used to fund activities for people with intellectual disabilities. Essentially to prevent them from being institutionalised.

When I was a kid, I had a friend in my street who went to Sunnyfield every day. She no doubt benefited from a) a more or less mainstream education, and b) being integrated into society (for want of better words) as a productive employee once her education was complete. She would have received neither of these had she been placed in an institution, which was the norm in those days.

Those of you who doubt the intent of Sunnyfield should check the above link.

I won't get into the argument of QF being a good corporate citizen. They sort of answered that one themselves - business decision or not
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Old 19th Dec 2009, 22:53
  #27 (permalink)  
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Moving Forward

At the end of the day,regardless of personal opinions relating to 'QF's Moral Compass', it is an airline,which makes it a business,which in turn means at times it will and has to make financial based decisions that will not please all, whether that be the public,the business sector or other groups of interest.
As long as the decisions made,especially with tendering,are conducted 'above board' and in line with corporate and legal guidelines then life moves forward.Time will reveal whether that has been the case on this occasion.
Due to QF being a national icon there will always be plenty of emotion spilled in various direction's when decisions are made, thats just the nature of the beast.
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Old 20th Dec 2009, 04:17
  #28 (permalink)  
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Come on...

As someone who has lived in Russia, where the selling of your grandparent's kidneys would attract praise for craftiness rather than condemnation, while I would accept that business decisions are made almost purely on a minimum-cost-for-required-outcome basis, is there no room in these decisions for the human element?

Hell that is what people generally like about Australia - where people get a fair go. That the work was subcontracted back to Sunnyfield suggests that there might have been more to it than money and we'll never know most of the details, but...
at the very least Qantas should realise that decisions like these, if exposed in the media, are somewhat damaging to reputations, and act with a little more forethought.
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Old 20th Dec 2009, 07:59
  #29 (permalink)  
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The people running qf don't know why they are doing it.
They think they are doing it soley to return a profit to shareholders and themselves. This is of course one aspect of the reason for the company. But it is carrying too much weight of late.
Sending maintenance overseas........beancounters and execs happy
Wasting millions on engineers strike....beancounters and execs happy
Paying millions to incompetant ceo's........Execs happy
Choosing this contract over sunnyfield.....beancounters and execs happy
Playing pilot and CC groups against each other .....beancounters and execs happy

I don't work for the company so thats all I can think of but from the outside it doesn't look like QF is taking the community that is their custom, public opinion, employee satisfaction ....or even safety into account enough. It will come back to bite them on the bum you can be sure....maybe it already is?
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Old 20th Dec 2009, 09:02
  #30 (permalink)  
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Spot on Hugh Jarse. Beautifully written.
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Old 20th Dec 2009, 09:27
  #31 (permalink)  
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I did a character guidance module when I joined the ADF over 12yrs ago. We went through Goulbourn jail which included time in the ward where the mentally unstable/handicapped prisoners (can't think of pc way to put it) were accommodated. I distinctly remember seeing the bags of qantas headsets and enquired to their purpose.

Was informed by staff that it was a form of gainful employment for these guys. Still shudder at the guy who did that and then casually explained to me how he killed his dad with an axe.

It is nothing new!

...and the character guidance didn't help- I still became a pilot!!!!!
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 01:09
  #32 (permalink)  
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It just never stops. Who gives a. Qantas have got to lower costs.
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 02:16
  #33 (permalink)  
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All expired/old stock blankets and pillows are donated to charity
The alternative to Qantas is what? Landfill? That costs money.

All old uniform items are shredded to make packing for pillows/blankets/doonas for charity
Alternative? Landfill. Money.

The charity boxes in the crew room (all unwanted hotel amenities) sent to charities by Qantas
Provided by aircrew at no cost to Qantas. Who gets the kudos? Qantas management as you would suggest.

The financial support/ sponsorship of just about every sports code in Australia
This is generally called sponsorship. How much would QF do of it, without the ability to attach it's name to billboards, uniforms etc.

Ah easy. None. I put it to you that QF's so called "support" of sport in Australia is not done for the altruistic reasons implied.

The only genuine examples of charitable work that you've provided are Pathfinders and the cabin crew team.
Both of which happen to be long standing initiatives [decades old] introduced and driven by operational staff [read cabin/tech crew] that have continued to be granted the assistance of QF management.
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 02:47
  #34 (permalink)  
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Good corporate citizen or not, in the tender process any company has to draw the line somewhere. So Sunnyfield lost the contract to the DCS, fair enough. I am just wondering how the DCS got into the business of subcontracting external contracts.

It is well known that the DCS pay peanuts to the prisoners and have no worries about overhead costs (already covered by you and me) and can therefor undercut any competing tender. How fair is it then that they can tender against commercial interests, including charities like Sunnyfield who all have the bottom line to watch out for.

To then subcontract work back to a losing competitor in the tender process smacks of at the least greed and at the worst corruption to me.

Now the DCS is making a profit off Sunnyfield who (given they lost in the tender process to DCS) I can only assume must be doing the work for less than they were before.

The DCS and the responsible minister should be ashamed of themselves.
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 02:57
  #35 (permalink)  
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t just never stops. Who gives a. Qantas have got to lower costs.
Others are right and we don't know the full story but the last post by captaindunedog777 reeks of uninformed bias.
Would you cptn..777 think differently and give a proverbial if one of your children attended sunnyfield?
I remember when the redtail sponsored the gay and lesbian mardi gra when it suited the person who made that why not sponsor the sunnyfield establishment if they are so concerned about injustices in our society.
The inmates doing the work in our esteemed correctional facilities arrived there because of their own activities and no one else.
The children who attend sunnyfield are there through no fault of their own.
Yes,every business has the right and if a public company the duty to make a profit but if you think QF has got to lower costs may I suggest captaindunedog777 that you offer a pay cut for yourself first.
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 07:28
  #36 (permalink)  
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Qf lower its costs

interesting you might find that qf is shortly providing a positive financial forecast for the year
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 12:21
  #37 (permalink)  
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the increase in revenue must be form ditching the folk at Sunnyfield for the crim's at Her Majesty's.

as others have said.......from QF's perspective its all about the dollar
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 12:43
  #38 (permalink)  
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It's funny how people trash Qantas over this without knowing the full details of the process/decision.

As I said earlier, for as long as I have worked in QF, (nearly 17 years), the headsets have been packaged by prison inmates. So the word "renewed" in relation to the contract seems to be incorrect.

The media twists the facts to suit themselves. There may be a very good explination as to why they were not awarded the contract. From what I've read here, Sunnyfield are doing the work in the end anyway.

Sorry to pour water on the fire of opportunity to trash Qantas one again.
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Old 21st Dec 2009, 13:53
  #39 (permalink)  

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It's funny how people trash Qantas....
Do we need a reason?

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Old 21st Dec 2009, 13:57
  #40 (permalink)  
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Trashing where trashings due..... in this case, I think people are being a little premature.
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