Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Another Qantas incident

Old 3rd Nov 2009, 23:05
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Australia
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I refer every person here who has bagged out Qantas. Each and everyone of you probably fly for other carriers and take these opportunities to have a go at a company you probably got rejected from.

To these people, I would like to refer you to post number 8 on this thread.

One day, page 3 already.

The incident I am sure is not the first, nor will it be the last. I hope the crew don't get too stressed out about this, as these things happen. They will be back in the air again soon displaying the professionalism the White Roo carries with it.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 23:23
  #42 (permalink)  

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Thumbs down

Each and everyone of you probably fly for other carriers and take these opportunities to have a go at a company you probably got rejected from.
That's really not very helpful.
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Old 3rd Nov 2009, 23:38
  #43 (permalink)  
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Gobetter you made a good point ref the media jumping on QF. BUT you have got to be FUKCING KIDDING ME with:

Each and everyone of you probably fly for other carriers and take these opportunities to have a go at a company you probably got rejected from.
Neil Armstrong, Chuck Yeager, Bob Hoover, Eric Brown etc must have nothing on you.

Wake up! QF is a good airline and I'm proud to work for it but it is not the be all and end all of flying.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:00
  #44 (permalink)  
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Nice to see at least one QF pilot without the 'airs'. Thanks 'SNAFU' and sorry to see the guys caught out, can happen to anyone. I still think of the "PUFF" checks when landing even though I've been on Jets for a long time. Strange the Tower didn't notice it, assuming it was visual.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:15
  #45 (permalink)  

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Hmmm. The weather report by the BOM shows it was windy, cloudy and rainy all day with 73mm for the day. Anyone with TTFs from the day?
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:16
  #46 (permalink)  
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QF response

Y'know, the thing that gets me is the Qantas auto-response "There was no risk" and "There was no flight safety issue".

That's the same as saying "There are no holes in my Swiss cheese." When there clearly were in this case.

The implication is that Qantas at some level might not take this seriously enough.

In safety management, this doesn't bode well.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:29
  #47 (permalink)  
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Keg, I think this may be the page your looking for: YSSY history 26 October 2009
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:30
  #48 (permalink)  
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Captn Snafu you I got a good laugh out of your post!. Gobetter probably doesn't know who chuck Yeager and Bob hoover are. There but for the grace of god go most of us, unless of course you are Gobetter.

Good luck to those involved.

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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:52
  #49 (permalink)  
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Capt SNAFU....... you da man!!!!!
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 00:55
  #50 (permalink)  
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Bloody hell , the gods of the sky working for the centre of aviation excellence in the world have stuffed up - what is the world coming to!!
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 01:25
  #51 (permalink)  
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For the greater part of my flying career, I ALWAYS used the acronym

"FUC" Check complete as a final safeguard against exactly this happenning.

F - flaps
U - undercarriage
C - clearance

With these three points covered, not much can go wrong!

I repeated this at each and every final approach, after all else was complete, especially in the sim, and was not caught out, thank God (at least in this area of operations).

Also, I always thought the EGPWS warning went "too low gear" not as quoted in the Australian article.

And yes, 767s do have firewalls, just not in the flight deck.

What happened to the, 1/ uncancellable gear warning with more than flaps 10 selected (at least it's that on the 737) and, 2/ the landing checklist!

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Old 4th Nov 2009, 01:44
  #52 (permalink)  
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If it was the day I am thinking it was the weather in Sydney was horizontal.
Mistakes were likely made and the drivers will be feeling very poorly right now.

Not sure it was grd prox warning alone, maybe config/landing warning coming on at 800'.Its been a while but fairly sure.

Harbison tends to editorialise these days not report.That is a sign of the times.Balanced reporting does not rate a mention in many places.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 02:09
  #53 (permalink)  
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Give the crew the professional courtesy they deserve, and lets wait for the official report before resorting to airmaship pointers!(as that demonstrates the complete lack of knowledge and understanding of the demands required in today's airline flying)

I wouldn't be surprised after a double Melbourne, few days in a row, with consecutive early's and minimum rest, and no doubt a host of other issues, that when the config warning should have done its job it didn't.

Interestingly how incidents/accidents have skyrocketed internationally over the last two years. They have been increasing proportionately with no other than with the mentality of today's management practices. This has been highlighted by the US Airways Pilot- but all is falling on deaf ears!

Joyce's mentor has had the same proportionate run of incidents over in Europe, but O'leary will of-course dismiss that and instead lay it all at the feet of the ''overpaid under-worked primadona's''(his words)pilots.
The bankers gave us the financial crisis, now its the turn of airline management.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 02:20
  #54 (permalink)  
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Thanks lowerlobe for the discription.. I had reasoned it out as a cross between 'wobble' and 'scribble' - which I thought was appropriate for this reporting. Agree with tl in posts # 2 & 5, and fathom in # 11. The time long ago when coming into the circuit I got distracted by close proximity traffic for normal gear extension has been with me since. Caught it on base, well before the final 'Rich, Fine, Green' checks, but is something you remember. and stress when flying with co-pilots - Don't Allow Yourself To Be Distracted At Critical Times. The reporting, unfortunately, we will just have to put up with, as it is a sign of the sensationalist Hollywood and T.V. time mentality, just as we have no power to threaten polititians with, for sensible decision making, until an election is imminent. Once they're in, they're in until voted out !
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 02:30
  #55 (permalink)  
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Probably too busy trying to find another annoying light to turn on for their taxi into the bay
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 02:37
  #56 (permalink)  
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It's easy to do man, real easy. It just requires the right combo of distractions, workload, fatigue, and experience. Workload and distractions can be effectively managed if you have experience and are not fatigued.
Fatigue can be managed if you have minimal distractions and workload. Experience is not required if you have none of the above
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 02:58
  #57 (permalink)  
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Location: Sydnet,NSW,Australia
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To be part of this aviation brother/sisterhood, it gives me such a warm and fuzzy feeling. Or is that a feeling of total disgust at some of these posts. You pack of wolves are a disgrace to the pilot community.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 03:10
  #58 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2009
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There's got to be more to this than meets the eye. It is a very rare event in modern RPT aircraft due to the aircraft systems design and SOP's.

QF SOP's require Landing config by 1000' RA in IMC. Can you have landing flap without gear, without a bloody great horn going off? That's before considering the EGWPS at 700 ft. Keg you're the man who'd know, being on the 767.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 03:19
  #59 (permalink)  
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Sure I wasn't there and all the stuff about 'it can happen to anyone... bla bla bla' but...

I don't care about how many distractions there were going on at the time. If the crew were so distracted about something else that they simply forgot to extend the gear they shouldn't have been continuing the approach anyway. Go around sort out all the issues that are preventing you from operating to the SOP's and start again.

Two pretty serious incidents in recent times if you ask me. The first being the 'almost' fuel deprived flight from PER to SYD (see ATSB report). Now this.
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Old 4th Nov 2009, 04:12
  #60 (permalink)  
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Location: Qld
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See ATSB report here

Nowhere is it stated that the crew forgot to select gear down. Pure speculation - maybe the journos have concluded that from the egpws warning.

Wait for the final report before writing the crew off.
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