Tiger and J*
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 916
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and being subtle as always:
why are you MORONS using the word "poached"??
In both pornstar and pussy you, individually, one way or another, have PAID FOR THAT ENDORSEMENT - you OWN that endorsement because you PAID for that endorsement.
If another business wishes to offer you more to use YOUR endorsement that YOU paid for then...up to you.
"Market forces" saw the LCC carriers emerge, "market forces" also says if I pay for my endorsement I can go where I like, when I like etc.
Not as I would prefer but times change - however if anyone is stupid enough to say the LCC model encourages 'loyalty' I'll be more than happy to p*ss myself laughing!
Cheers all.
why are you MORONS using the word "poached"??
In both pornstar and pussy you, individually, one way or another, have PAID FOR THAT ENDORSEMENT - you OWN that endorsement because you PAID for that endorsement.
If another business wishes to offer you more to use YOUR endorsement that YOU paid for then...up to you.
"Market forces" saw the LCC carriers emerge, "market forces" also says if I pay for my endorsement I can go where I like, when I like etc.
Not as I would prefer but times change - however if anyone is stupid enough to say the LCC model encourages 'loyalty' I'll be more than happy to p*ss myself laughing!
Cheers all.
The true problem galdian is the seniority concept.
This should have been abolished as soon as pilots started paying for endorsements. To be truely free agents and not slaves to company XYZ we need to move as any other modern executive - into a position relative to our experience not DOJ. The old fashion concept has served us well while employee loyalty was the rule but now has become an anchor around our professional necks which only favours a very few senior pilots and mostly the employers.
At some stage in the future we will see a court challenge on this most descrimatory practice but it will be a protracted case as it so heavily favours employers which enjoy a slave like control of their pilot body.
Consider a world, with all it's pro & cons, with no seniority
This should have been abolished as soon as pilots started paying for endorsements. To be truely free agents and not slaves to company XYZ we need to move as any other modern executive - into a position relative to our experience not DOJ. The old fashion concept has served us well while employee loyalty was the rule but now has become an anchor around our professional necks which only favours a very few senior pilots and mostly the employers.
At some stage in the future we will see a court challenge on this most descrimatory practice but it will be a protracted case as it so heavily favours employers which enjoy a slave like control of their pilot body.
Consider a world, with all it's pro & cons, with no seniority
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Alabama, then Wyoming, then Idaho and now staying with Kharon on Styx houseboat
Age: 61
Posts: 1,437
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Toothless Tiger
It is JQ attempting to poach from Tiger, not the reverse. JQ pay rates for Drivers are huge compared to Tigers 'bowl of rice' salary.
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Sydney
Posts: 817
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Note that in Singapore both Tiger and Jetstar have a clause in the employment contract prohibiting a pilot from working for another airline in Singapore within six months of leaving. One answer to poaching but not entirely sure how it would go down in Australia.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JQ pay rates for Drivers are huge compared to Tigers 'bowl of rice' salary.
Air China is around 14KAUD/month after tax , all you need is 500hrs command A330 and to pass the interview, medical and Chinese ATPL ( to the best of my knowledge they are not taking A320 drivers unless previous widebody experience )
Poaching implies contacting the pilots and offering them jobs directly, which might be seen as a bit underhand.
Now on the other hand if an advert were to be placed in Fridays Australian offering attractive terms and conditions to pilots with specific qualifications which just happened to match those of the pilots you wanted to lure away that is obviously a different matter.
Now on the other hand if an advert were to be placed in Fridays Australian offering attractive terms and conditions to pilots with specific qualifications which just happened to match those of the pilots you wanted to lure away that is obviously a different matter.
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey Longdongpooy
According to my sources. Most 320 drivers are on at least 190 upto 220 per year and 330 drivers on 220 and as high as 260 ish. Peanuts aint it. Yeah right. And that does not include Super and limited overnights. Your 14 clear a month with Air Chong is surpassed by most 330 captains.
According to my sources. Most 320 drivers are on at least 190 upto 220 per year and 330 drivers on 220 and as high as 260 ish. Peanuts aint it. Yeah right. And that does not include Super and limited overnights. Your 14 clear a month with Air Chong is surpassed by most 330 captains.
captaintunedog777: I find it very hard to believe JQ330 drivers are pulling in 260K. Why not just let the QF 330 crews fly them?
I'd be happy to be corrected, good on em' if it's true!
I'd be happy to be corrected, good on em' if it's true!
Hey Dog,
That must be why their 330 Captains are applying to Air China, ignorance is bliss!
Prior to unleashing from the hip, ask the 330 guys that have applied to CA why they are interested.
That must be why their 330 Captains are applying to Air China, ignorance is bliss!
Prior to unleashing from the hip, ask the 330 guys that have applied to CA why they are interested.
The Air China contract may not be as good as it appears, particularly with an Australian base and therefore Aussie taxes. Quick search on the Far East forum needed.
Korean Air may be worth looking at, but once again do some carefull research first.
If anyone finds any decent jobs going please let the rest of us know.
Korean Air may be worth looking at, but once again do some carefull research first.
If anyone finds any decent jobs going please let the rest of us know.
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
captaintunedog777: your sources are waaaaaaaaaay off
25.1 Base Salary
25.1.1 Pilots covered by this Agreement will be paid the base salary contained in
the table below per annum, from the date of employment, or after
achieving Checked to the Line status following conversion, re-conversion or
upgrade training. Base Salary rate changes will apply from the dates below
and be paid in the first full pay period on or after the dates shown.
WIDE BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $165,523 $91,038 $99,314 $107,589 $59,588
1 Jan 2009 $170,489 $93,769 $102,293 $110,817 $61,376
1 Jan 2010 $175,603 $96,582 $105,362 $114,141 $63,217
1 Jan 2011 $180,871 $99,480 $108,523 $117,565 $65,113
1 Jan 2012 $186,298 $102,464 $111,779 $121,092 $67,067
NARROW BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $145,195 $79,857 $87,117 $94,377 $52,271
1 Jan 2009 $149,551 $82,253 $89,731 $97,208 $53,839
1 Jan 2010 $154,037 $84,720 $92,422 $100,125 $55,454
1 Jan 2011 $158,659 $87,262 $95,195 $103,128 $57,118
1 Jan 2012 $163,418 $89,880 $98,051 $106,222 $58,831
Note: First Officer rates are calculated as follows:
Level 1 FO 55% of applicable Captain’s rate (for initial 12 months)
Level 2 FO 60% of applicable Captain’s rate
(after initial 12 months up
to and including 5th year)
Level 3 FO 65% of applicable Captain’s rate (after 5th year)
25.5.1 In addition to the annual salary rate, Jetstar will pay pilots an Extra Flying
Allowance for each averaged calendar month Roster Period where the
pilot’s total credit hours exceed 75 hours in that roster period.
The Extra Flying Allowance will be paid for each credit hour in excess of
75 hours in that roster period, at the rate calculated as follows:
Annual salary/787.0.
Superannuation 9%
Pay for your own conversion - priceless
25.1 Base Salary
25.1.1 Pilots covered by this Agreement will be paid the base salary contained in
the table below per annum, from the date of employment, or after
achieving Checked to the Line status following conversion, re-conversion or
upgrade training. Base Salary rate changes will apply from the dates below
and be paid in the first full pay period on or after the dates shown.
WIDE BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $165,523 $91,038 $99,314 $107,589 $59,588
1 Jan 2009 $170,489 $93,769 $102,293 $110,817 $61,376
1 Jan 2010 $175,603 $96,582 $105,362 $114,141 $63,217
1 Jan 2011 $180,871 $99,480 $108,523 $117,565 $65,113
1 Jan 2012 $186,298 $102,464 $111,779 $121,092 $67,067
NARROW BODY CAPTAIN FO Lvl 1 FO Lvl 2 FO Lvl 3 JUNIOR FO
1 Jan 2008 $145,195 $79,857 $87,117 $94,377 $52,271
1 Jan 2009 $149,551 $82,253 $89,731 $97,208 $53,839
1 Jan 2010 $154,037 $84,720 $92,422 $100,125 $55,454
1 Jan 2011 $158,659 $87,262 $95,195 $103,128 $57,118
1 Jan 2012 $163,418 $89,880 $98,051 $106,222 $58,831
Note: First Officer rates are calculated as follows:
Level 1 FO 55% of applicable Captain’s rate (for initial 12 months)
Level 2 FO 60% of applicable Captain’s rate
(after initial 12 months up
to and including 5th year)
Level 3 FO 65% of applicable Captain’s rate (after 5th year)
25.5.1 In addition to the annual salary rate, Jetstar will pay pilots an Extra Flying
Allowance for each averaged calendar month Roster Period where the
pilot’s total credit hours exceed 75 hours in that roster period.
The Extra Flying Allowance will be paid for each credit hour in excess of
75 hours in that roster period, at the rate calculated as follows:
Annual salary/787.0.
Superannuation 9%
Pay for your own conversion - priceless
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Employment contracts
My understanding as an employer here in Oz, that you can put a clause into a contract prohibiting employment within a geographical area after leaving that contract.
Interesting the HR people say that it is actually quite a grey area, it would need to go to court etc, the employee could then say well I have a mortgage, family to feed, so the employee would win...
I know its quite different in Singapore...work over there 6 times a year.
JERR
Interesting the HR people say that it is actually quite a grey area, it would need to go to court etc, the employee could then say well I have a mortgage, family to feed, so the employee would win...
I know its quite different in Singapore...work over there 6 times a year.
JERR
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 58
Posts: 423
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Mudskipper, you are absolutly correct. The 'seniority' concept have been the most significant factor in keeping out T&Cs down during a period where market forces should have seen our renumeration blossom.
Seniority is outdated and should be abandoned ASAP, if our conditions are to improve.
I can't wait to hear the responses from the Flat Earth Society...
Seniority is outdated and should be abandoned ASAP, if our conditions are to improve.
I can't wait to hear the responses from the Flat Earth Society...
Junior FO?
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Global Drifter
Age: 64
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you flew 1000hrs per year, added holidays on top, got the performance bonus and the retention bonus and worked quite a few days off (generous day off payments), then you might get up to the figures quoted by tunedog, and a very few probably have.
The cost is you would be knackered and probably have no life!
The cost is you would be knackered and probably have no life!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 30
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
...you might get up to the figures quoted by tunedog
...320 drivers are on at least 190 upto 220 per year and 330 drivers on 220 and as high as 260
If you wanted to compare apples and apples, then talk about a QF driver on 1000 hours pa and then compare to the LCC rats.
Tunedog also said
Your 14 clear a month with Air Chong is surpassed by most 330 captains.
But don't let a few facts get in your way. Sheesh, 5 mins with google...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Global Drifter
Age: 64
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I find it very hard to believe JQ330 drivers are pulling in 260K
As I said, there are probably a very few who have, but it is certainly not the norm, far from it.
I am not into a pi$$ing contest with what they earn at QF, I am simply stating that it is possible to earn that figure in J* and I am certainly not defending the pay rates.
As I said, to earn that figure is putting everything else second.