Some consideration please QF
Nunc est bibendum
Sked, that I can (and do) accommodate and often 'cycle' the lights through to make sure we still have some forward facing lights for us to utilise but avoid blinding whoever is coming the other way. Maybe the 737 is a bit different but the wing lights on a 767 point backward so I'm buggered if I know how it's going to affect opposite direction traffic and thus I've never bothered to turn them off for people going the other way. 
Bit difficult for me to turn them off in consideration of others at other time given that I can't see behind me. Ask nicely and I'll turn them off for a bit but I can't simply ignore the SOP and not turn them on given that it's not all the time they're a problem.
I should point out too that we occasionally taxi out behind our own aircraft also and whilst I acknowledge that my flight deck is a bit higher than some (most) others, it also means that those wing inspection lights are at my eye level. Whilst I haven't done much flying this calendar year (and therefore have done even less at night) I haven't experienced it to be the issue that many make it out to be.
Either way, the mechanism for change has been explained.
Bit difficult for me to turn them off in consideration of others at other time given that I can't see behind me. Ask nicely and I'll turn them off for a bit but I can't simply ignore the SOP and not turn them on given that it's not all the time they're a problem.
I should point out too that we occasionally taxi out behind our own aircraft also and whilst I acknowledge that my flight deck is a bit higher than some (most) others, it also means that those wing inspection lights are at my eye level. Whilst I haven't done much flying this calendar year (and therefore have done even less at night) I haven't experienced it to be the issue that many make it out to be.
Either way, the mechanism for change has been explained.
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Well those lights do get you going the other way Keg and did you ever think about aircraft holding short whilst you pass in front right to left or vicky verka? This happens all the time and especially in Sydney. They get you right in the eyes and it is annoying. I understand it is SOP but a bit of common sense surely comes into play? Having said that I will put in the appropriate reports both to QF and CASA next time it happens complete with dates and times just so there's a paper trail if you think it'll help.
Well it would have to because the Ops manual is a CASA approved document. Our ops manual has things it that are contradictory to the CAR's. If it went to court I would assume the Ops manual being the CASA approved document could be used. For example we have a lower TO minima approved by CASA so every low viz takeoff is illegal if it goes to court then?
I never thought that CASA really "approved" an Ops manual, they merely "accept" it and it will be on your head come investigation time (if any), not theirs.
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Op's manual's are only permitted to be equal to, or more restrictive than the regulations set out by CASA.
Op's manual's are a nightmare. The changing of one single word in the op's manual, can not just be done and then a new page inserted, it is required to be passed by CASA, and then a new copy issued to them.
Ops manuals are not just an 'accepted' item, it requires CASA's approval. CASA have a copy of every company (that hold an AOC) op's manual. If a company changes, updates, upgrades an ops manual, an audit is usually done, and a new copy given to CASA.
Good time's.
Op's manual's are a nightmare. The changing of one single word in the op's manual, can not just be done and then a new page inserted, it is required to be passed by CASA, and then a new copy issued to them.
Ops manuals are not just an 'accepted' item, it requires CASA's approval. CASA have a copy of every company (that hold an AOC) op's manual. If a company changes, updates, upgrades an ops manual, an audit is usually done, and a new copy given to CASA.
Good time's.
Gobetter, perhaps I could have phrased my post better. I guess I'm trying to say that if the proverbial hits the fan and your Ops Manual differs in regard to regulation X, it is up to you as an operator to defend why your manual is different CASA regs, regardless that CASA has "approved" your manual.
Apologies for thread drift.
Apologies for thread drift.
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Nev et QF al. Please just use your good judgement and airmanship we can assume you have gained over the years and . . . . TURN THE LIGHTS OFF!
When you think it is prudent.
Thank you.
When you think it is prudent.
Thank you.
Some consideration please ....
...FedEx.
...DHL.
It does seem that a few more airlines' collision avoidance lighting policies have also changed following FAA/Eurocontrol recommendations.
Maybe QF haven't just gone out on a limb and made it all up ?!
As for being sensible about when to turn it off, I entirely agree. The funny thing is though, do they REALLY bother you? I personally don't find it a problem to look away from the light as I would if sitting at the holding point and a landing aircraft flew right in front of me, lights blazing...
As always, to each, their own...
...DHL.
It does seem that a few more airlines' collision avoidance lighting policies have also changed following FAA/Eurocontrol recommendations.
Maybe QF haven't just gone out on a limb and made it all up ?!
As for being sensible about when to turn it off, I entirely agree. The funny thing is though, do they REALLY bother you? I personally don't find it a problem to look away from the light as I would if sitting at the holding point and a landing aircraft flew right in front of me, lights blazing...
As always, to each, their own...
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I thought I'd bring this up for some updated discussion.
I am really sick of the lack of airmanship being displayed by 99% of QF crew who couldn't care less about what effect their
taxi lights are having on other aircraft.
Instead of sitting in your seats giggling and chuckling about what your stupid lights are doing to others... TURN THE DAMN THING'S OFF!!!
Most of you guys are acting like children in regards to this.
You don't blind your dispatcher when you turn on to the bay (day/night) so why do you feel the need to blind another aircraft?
I am really sick of the lack of airmanship being displayed by 99% of QF crew who couldn't care less about what effect their
taxi lights are having on other aircraft.Instead of sitting in your seats giggling and chuckling about what your stupid lights are doing to others... TURN THE DAMN THING'S OFF!!!
Most of you guys are acting like children in regards to this.
You don't blind your dispatcher when you turn on to the bay (day/night) so why do you feel the need to blind another aircraft?
Last edited by Gunger; 5th Apr 2011 at 08:07.
Gunger - put in an ASIR or something, mate. We think it's as big a crock as you do. Guys do flip the switches off occasionally, hell, I did only 2 days ago. That being said, we are not going to spend the whole of the taxi trying to work out which aircraft are affected and then cycling the switches on and off a dozen times. Sometimes just not practical.
As for your comment re "giggling and chuckling" and acting like children, well.... give me a break, that's just insulting. Geez. I haven't seen a SINGLE occasion of anything of the sort! On the contrary, it's more an attitude of resignation, one of "put the bloody things on, the idiots really have taken over the asylum."
Put an ASIR in and you might see change in about, oh, 3 years, after it's worked its way through CASA, ATSB and half a dozen Qantas committees.
As for your comment re "giggling and chuckling" and acting like children, well.... give me a break, that's just insulting. Geez. I haven't seen a SINGLE occasion of anything of the sort! On the contrary, it's more an attitude of resignation, one of "put the bloody things on, the idiots really have taken over the asylum."
Put an ASIR in and you might see change in about, oh, 3 years, after it's worked its way through CASA, ATSB and half a dozen Qantas committees.
Nunc est bibendum
I'm blinded by lights of QF aircraft as much as from anyone else. Not sure it's a QF specific problem?!?!?! We are talking at night here though aren't we?
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Wing inspection lights are exactly that. For inspecting the wing predominantly for ice buildup. Use them for that. If it's SOP to keep them on during taxi, fine. But common sense and airmanship dictates you turn them off when blinding others (ie. Like a taxi light facing a landing aircraft or taxi light facing ground personnel whilst aligning for the airbridge). Quite simple really. Common sense unfortunately is not that common anymore.
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In defence of QF crew, just last night witnessed a QF 767 in SYD turn all forward lighting off as they held at B8 whilst traffic vacated 16R on B7 .Then only a few minutes again a very courteous J* crew did similar as their lights were about to fill my startled eye's. Nice to see airmanship is alive out there .
Gunger :
You've got to be joking, right? You really do have an over-enthusiastic imagination...
sitting in your seats giggling and chuckling about what your stupid lights are doing to others
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Not being long out of G.A I still turn the NAV lights off during daylight hours, as that is what my old employer wanted. To save the bulbs.
Then I was pulled up on it during a recent check ride. The reason?, CASA have dictated that if you are in cloud, you are in low visibility conditions and should have your lights on.
To the pinhead in CASA who has never flown outside of the circuit and truely believes that this practice is actually practical and enhances safety, I say, if I need my lights on when in cloud to alert another aircraft to my presence, then the 2 of us are about to have a real bad day. Don`t worry that as an airliner, I am always in controlled airspace, I have TCAS and fly under IFR, so any traffic would be passed on to me anyway.
Then I was pulled up on it during a recent check ride. The reason?, CASA have dictated that if you are in cloud, you are in low visibility conditions and should have your lights on.
To the pinhead in CASA who has never flown outside of the circuit and truely believes that this practice is actually practical and enhances safety, I say, if I need my lights on when in cloud to alert another aircraft to my presence, then the 2 of us are about to have a real bad day. Don`t worry that as an airliner, I am always in controlled airspace, I have TCAS and fly under IFR, so any traffic would be passed on to me anyway.
Originally Posted by metrosmoker
Not being long out of G.A I still turn the NAV lights off during daylight hours, as that is what my old employer wanted. To save the bulbs.
Then I was pulled up on it during a recent check ride. The reason?, CASA have dictated that if you are in cloud, you are in low visibility conditions and should have your lights on.
Then I was pulled up on it during a recent check ride. The reason?, CASA have dictated that if you are in cloud, you are in low visibility conditions and should have your lights on.
As in, are you sure the checkie wasn't blowing smoke up your a$$/making that up? Never heard of it nor is it SOP on any jet I've flown in oz.
FWIW, in 738s when you turn on the strobes the navs come on automatically anyway, never forget em
(i think thats how it works)
