Jetstar Australia time in the sun expires
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Yes tunedog.One would have to agree that the airline with the lowest costs will bear the brunt of higher fuel prices better than one with higher costs.
Of course that's just raw numbers.The QF - JQ relationship is a tad more complex for many resons none of which are new and will bore the pants off anyone reading anther qf-jq blurb.
Of course that's just raw numbers.The QF - JQ relationship is a tad more complex for many resons none of which are new and will bore the pants off anyone reading anther qf-jq blurb.
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Blown a gasket,
Your post regarding the history of organized pilot labor in Australia is exactly the problem I am referring to.
The document mentions the year 1946,1959,61…64….65. I am not disputing the validity of this history. But every component of the industry has since changed: customer expectations resulting in reduced service airlines, competition from foreign carriers based in low labor cost regions, transnationalization of capital, removal of the two airline policy.
The game has changed radically and yet your viewpoint about organized labor has not. Like most labor groups, pilots are clinging to a bygone era and are ill prepared to accommodate the changes that are clearly occurring.
As I have said before, will you be a part of change or will you become a victim of it?
Your post regarding the history of organized pilot labor in Australia is exactly the problem I am referring to.
The document mentions the year 1946,1959,61…64….65. I am not disputing the validity of this history. But every component of the industry has since changed: customer expectations resulting in reduced service airlines, competition from foreign carriers based in low labor cost regions, transnationalization of capital, removal of the two airline policy.
The game has changed radically and yet your viewpoint about organized labor has not. Like most labor groups, pilots are clinging to a bygone era and are ill prepared to accommodate the changes that are clearly occurring.
As I have said before, will you be a part of change or will you become a victim of it?
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I'm sorry Professor, but it would appear you patently are oblivious to the facts.
Qantas pilots have long negotiated in good faith and allowed evolutionary changes to their Contract in order to remain competitive with every other International Airline they competed with.
Almost overnight we have the liberal Party in cahoots with big business coming up with WorkChoices.
Why? because big business could see the writing on the wall with regards to ageing populations in the Western world verses the shrinking proportion
of working age people. Simple supply and demand delemma not in their best interests.
Thow into the mix that most big business labour forces are unionised and better able to improve their lot on a collective basis and you have the Answer that was derived in the form of workChoices.
One only has to dig a little deeper to see the correlation between Australian Business Council, Dixon, Qantas and the Liberal Government and I would say no doubt that the little APA deal Dixon had cooking also drove his detirmination to quell any opposition to his pot of gold.
Net result a Management team that had no intention of ever bargaining in good faith because they believed they didn't have to thanks to Workchoices. They believed they could just dictate terms and treat their staff with contempt as a result.
It's funny if one digs even deeper ,how one finds a lot of similarities with that era in the 50's-60's when all that industrial argy bargy happened.
Qantas' then CEO, C.O.Turner ,very much of the same mold as Dixon. Menzies and his little clone Howard, WorkChoices almost reminiscent of the industrial laws of the land during that era .Is it any wonder pilots now are upset as they were back then when so many factors are repeating themselves.
How can someone negotiate in good faith in such a toxic environment as this? A negotiated settlement is all that pilots can hope for.
To boot how can any Industrial Organisation who's charter is "to advance the interests of it's member's and the profession" do so in a revolutionary way that's been bought about due to a quantum change in the industrial laws of the land? That's exactly what was and still is confronting Qantas Mainline Pilots every day thanks to manifold changes instigated by the liberal Party to facilitate the whims of big business and their headlong leap of faith regarding the latest economic concept of the Globalisation and corporatization of the world's economy.
You specifically mention the impact of cheap overseas labour, how will this facet of the Globalised World Economy cope when Cheap fuel runs out?
The Globalised Market concept relys on cheap fuel to facilitate a globalised integrated economy.
Let me ask Professor , just how much change would you be willing to accept if your livelyhood was threatened by influences beyond your immediate control.
The problem is not an unwillingness to accept change. AIPA has proven it's bona fides in this area time and time again. The Question revolves around the management of peoples expectations. A very tricky thing to do when the very people you are dealing with are one step up from snake oil merchants.
Qantas pilots have long negotiated in good faith and allowed evolutionary changes to their Contract in order to remain competitive with every other International Airline they competed with.
Almost overnight we have the liberal Party in cahoots with big business coming up with WorkChoices.
Why? because big business could see the writing on the wall with regards to ageing populations in the Western world verses the shrinking proportion
of working age people. Simple supply and demand delemma not in their best interests.
Thow into the mix that most big business labour forces are unionised and better able to improve their lot on a collective basis and you have the Answer that was derived in the form of workChoices.
One only has to dig a little deeper to see the correlation between Australian Business Council, Dixon, Qantas and the Liberal Government and I would say no doubt that the little APA deal Dixon had cooking also drove his detirmination to quell any opposition to his pot of gold.
Net result a Management team that had no intention of ever bargaining in good faith because they believed they didn't have to thanks to Workchoices. They believed they could just dictate terms and treat their staff with contempt as a result.
It's funny if one digs even deeper ,how one finds a lot of similarities with that era in the 50's-60's when all that industrial argy bargy happened.
Qantas' then CEO, C.O.Turner ,very much of the same mold as Dixon. Menzies and his little clone Howard, WorkChoices almost reminiscent of the industrial laws of the land during that era .Is it any wonder pilots now are upset as they were back then when so many factors are repeating themselves.
How can someone negotiate in good faith in such a toxic environment as this? A negotiated settlement is all that pilots can hope for.
To boot how can any Industrial Organisation who's charter is "to advance the interests of it's member's and the profession" do so in a revolutionary way that's been bought about due to a quantum change in the industrial laws of the land? That's exactly what was and still is confronting Qantas Mainline Pilots every day thanks to manifold changes instigated by the liberal Party to facilitate the whims of big business and their headlong leap of faith regarding the latest economic concept of the Globalisation and corporatization of the world's economy.
You specifically mention the impact of cheap overseas labour, how will this facet of the Globalised World Economy cope when Cheap fuel runs out?
The Globalised Market concept relys on cheap fuel to facilitate a globalised integrated economy.
Let me ask Professor , just how much change would you be willing to accept if your livelyhood was threatened by influences beyond your immediate control.
The problem is not an unwillingness to accept change. AIPA has proven it's bona fides in this area time and time again. The Question revolves around the management of peoples expectations. A very tricky thing to do when the very people you are dealing with are one step up from snake oil merchants.
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Single seat layout all economy getting more punters per flight
Higher crew productivity ( and very simple training pipeline) due single type
Simplified work rules allowing higher overall labour productivity
Simplified work rules allowing higher overall labour productivity
Shorter turn times and much higher aircraft utilization
Handling innovations such as the power push back with a single person
“B” scale labour rules without union interference
Use of second-tier airports
I could go on, but you should stop quoting from the "how to run an airline" book because it the same spin that makes you really think you made over $100million ths year
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JQ......never again
'just had the "pleasure" of flying JQ to DPS return as we had a wedding up there. We went commercial as -Staff Travel ain't worth the stress to Bali !
Anyway, on the way up -flight was delayed 3 hours ( "late arrival on incoming service") Oh yeah - I can deal with that.....it happens .
On board-packed in like Clams. Service ...or lack of- didn't appear for 1.5 hours due to a crew illness on board. OK-it happens. I can deal with that as well. So arrived 2.5 hours late. No apology-nothing.
Coming back..............'another delay. Guess what-due to late arrival on inbound Aircraft. This time only 1.5 hours. Service on the way back-woeful
Before the JQ apologists say " you get what you pay for". I don't think its that cheap! We went commercial about 4 years back on QF for the same fare.
I refuse to fly Garuda and DJ were full.
I'm not advocating a return to DPS by QF.I do understand its a leisure port etc etc. BUT- don't bang on about being #1 and happy and aren't we great when all I ever experience is mediocity .
Anyway -rant over. Who at the QCA bunker will give a rats rissole?. We don't do feedback at Jetstar. Its "take it or leave it!"
Bring back Compass Mark 3
Anyway, on the way up -flight was delayed 3 hours ( "late arrival on incoming service") Oh yeah - I can deal with that.....it happens .
On board-packed in like Clams. Service ...or lack of- didn't appear for 1.5 hours due to a crew illness on board. OK-it happens. I can deal with that as well. So arrived 2.5 hours late. No apology-nothing.
Coming back..............'another delay. Guess what-due to late arrival on inbound Aircraft. This time only 1.5 hours. Service on the way back-woeful
Before the JQ apologists say " you get what you pay for". I don't think its that cheap! We went commercial about 4 years back on QF for the same fare.
I refuse to fly Garuda and DJ were full.
I'm not advocating a return to DPS by QF.I do understand its a leisure port etc etc. BUT- don't bang on about being #1 and happy and aren't we great when all I ever experience is mediocity .
Anyway -rant over. Who at the QCA bunker will give a rats rissole?. We don't do feedback at Jetstar. Its "take it or leave it!"
Bring back Compass Mark 3
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blow.n gasket
Qantas pilots have long negotiated in good faith and allowed evolutionary changes to their Contract in order to remain competitive with every other International Airline they competed with.
What planet are you on.Name one carrier in 2009 that has a 655+ EBA.
Name one carrier that QF pilots are cost competitive with[except JAL which just lost another billion.
The Proffessor is right.Join the rest of the world or become more of a victim than you are now.
Joyce's article stated that QF will reduce by 5% and Jetstar will increase by 24%.You guys call this a win.I would like to know your definition of a loss.
Qantas pilots have long negotiated in good faith and allowed evolutionary changes to their Contract in order to remain competitive with every other International Airline they competed with.
What planet are you on.Name one carrier in 2009 that has a 655+ EBA.
Name one carrier that QF pilots are cost competitive with[except JAL which just lost another billion.
The Proffessor is right.Join the rest of the world or become more of a victim than you are now.
Joyce's article stated that QF will reduce by 5% and Jetstar will increase by 24%.You guys call this a win.I would like to know your definition of a loss.
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Jetsworst what is a 655+EBA????
If you are refering to the number of pages in said contract then you had better re-read the piece I wrote before.
The reason the contract is so long is because it is a descriptive contract that has been written and rewritten in order to protect pilots because of intransient and sometimes unscrupulous management types not working to the spirit said contract was written.That after all is the purpous of industrial organisations, to look after their members and improve their members lot in life. Yes as you so rightly point out a contract that evolved from previous times and until recently was competitive, but alas no longer thanks to the new LCC concept . However there has been a seismic shift in the airline scene thanks to Management scrambling to reinvent the Airline model so as to remain workable going forward into uncertain times.As has been discussed at length on other forums the one area management have some cost controls over are pay and conditions of it's workforce.Let's see what evolutionary change occurs with the Jetstar award as we move forward and pilot's wants and desires evolve as well. Do you really mean to tell me that there has been no improvement with your EBA since inception?
Before you come off so smug I'd suggest you have a look at the number of
Jetstar pilots who are approaching and joining AIPA (over60%) who are sick and tired of being sick and tired of similar Management antics that led to Pilots back in the 60's saying enough is enough.I bet you pounds to peanuts that there would be plenty of Jetstar pilots out there would dearly love a more descriptive contract to protect their lifestyle from overzealous management types! One only has to look at the number of grievences that Jetstar pilots are pursuing to see that not all is rosey in your little low wage nirvana. As I've pointed out time and time again people are naturally adverse to change. It's human nature. The only reason Jetstar managed such a cost difference with their contract was thanks to changes in Legislature that allowed them to take advantage of conditions at the time. I'd dare you to accept a 20-30% pay cut without warning when you find out all your future flying is shipped off-shore because of up coming Legislative change. .Do you really think you're going to get to fly a 787? Do you really think they're going to be based in Australia? Let's see who the victims are then sunshine, when everyone is in the same leaky boat!
Have a look at some of the contracts going at the moment ,Qantas doesn't look too bad in comparison.
No The Qantas Contract is no longer as competitive as the Jetstar contract thanks to a change of Laws that allowed such a dilution of conditions to occur.
Unfortunately as I've said previously a change from present Qantas conditions to be more competitive with the Jetstar contract is a revolutionary change whereas most people need evolutionary change in order to get their heads around that need for change as markets evolve and those market forces change, sometimes quicker than most people can accept.
You do seem to like comparing the cost difference between Jetstar and Qantas as a badge of honour, fair enough.
Don't forget ,the only reason Jetstar exists is because of changes to the Corporations Act that allowed "Green Field" entities to sprout.
Do you really think that when push comes to shove, which I'm sure it will, that Qantas Pilots when confronted with a take it or leave it choice, they won't take the opportunity ?
Then when there is no cost difference who's going to win? If you call that a win!
Until the fat lady sings though I can't see any problem doing as Geoff Dixon said : "You get what you bargain for!"
If you are refering to the number of pages in said contract then you had better re-read the piece I wrote before.
The reason the contract is so long is because it is a descriptive contract that has been written and rewritten in order to protect pilots because of intransient and sometimes unscrupulous management types not working to the spirit said contract was written.That after all is the purpous of industrial organisations, to look after their members and improve their members lot in life. Yes as you so rightly point out a contract that evolved from previous times and until recently was competitive, but alas no longer thanks to the new LCC concept . However there has been a seismic shift in the airline scene thanks to Management scrambling to reinvent the Airline model so as to remain workable going forward into uncertain times.As has been discussed at length on other forums the one area management have some cost controls over are pay and conditions of it's workforce.Let's see what evolutionary change occurs with the Jetstar award as we move forward and pilot's wants and desires evolve as well. Do you really mean to tell me that there has been no improvement with your EBA since inception?
Before you come off so smug I'd suggest you have a look at the number of
Jetstar pilots who are approaching and joining AIPA (over60%) who are sick and tired of being sick and tired of similar Management antics that led to Pilots back in the 60's saying enough is enough.I bet you pounds to peanuts that there would be plenty of Jetstar pilots out there would dearly love a more descriptive contract to protect their lifestyle from overzealous management types! One only has to look at the number of grievences that Jetstar pilots are pursuing to see that not all is rosey in your little low wage nirvana. As I've pointed out time and time again people are naturally adverse to change. It's human nature. The only reason Jetstar managed such a cost difference with their contract was thanks to changes in Legislature that allowed them to take advantage of conditions at the time. I'd dare you to accept a 20-30% pay cut without warning when you find out all your future flying is shipped off-shore because of up coming Legislative change. .Do you really think you're going to get to fly a 787? Do you really think they're going to be based in Australia? Let's see who the victims are then sunshine, when everyone is in the same leaky boat!
Have a look at some of the contracts going at the moment ,Qantas doesn't look too bad in comparison.
No The Qantas Contract is no longer as competitive as the Jetstar contract thanks to a change of Laws that allowed such a dilution of conditions to occur.
Unfortunately as I've said previously a change from present Qantas conditions to be more competitive with the Jetstar contract is a revolutionary change whereas most people need evolutionary change in order to get their heads around that need for change as markets evolve and those market forces change, sometimes quicker than most people can accept.
You do seem to like comparing the cost difference between Jetstar and Qantas as a badge of honour, fair enough.
Don't forget ,the only reason Jetstar exists is because of changes to the Corporations Act that allowed "Green Field" entities to sprout.
Do you really think that when push comes to shove, which I'm sure it will, that Qantas Pilots when confronted with a take it or leave it choice, they won't take the opportunity ?
Then when there is no cost difference who's going to win? If you call that a win!
Until the fat lady sings though I can't see any problem doing as Geoff Dixon said : "You get what you bargain for!"
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 26th Oct 2009 at 05:38.
I'd just like to point out....
that "Jetbest", who joined PPRUNE on 10Dec07, is NOT "Jetsbest", who joined on 08Jun00, and whose opinions differ greatly. 
Mods; is there any remedy to this all-too-similarly named late arrival?
Mods; is there any remedy to this all-too-similarly named late arrival?
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blow.n.gasket
please answer the question, not call people silly names. As i said please name one company[Just 1] that you claim you are cost competive with. As for court cases, you guys with your contract [with all its bells and whistles] have run up a fairly large legal bill !!!
Jetsbest,maybe it was some kind of Karma that you chose your callsign back before Jetstar started!!! It might be time to jump ship and see how the rest of the world operate
please answer the question, not call people silly names. As i said please name one company[Just 1] that you claim you are cost competive with. As for court cases, you guys with your contract [with all its bells and whistles] have run up a fairly large legal bill !!!
Jetsbest,maybe it was some kind of Karma that you chose your callsign back before Jetstar started!!! It might be time to jump ship and see how the rest of the world operate
Jetbest
I look forward to hearing you whinge when the Jetstar 330's are operated out of Singapore with Jetstar Asia or similar crew, and the 787's are crewed out of Hochiminh.
I look forward to hearing you whinge when the Jetstar 330's are operated out of Singapore with Jetstar Asia or similar crew, and the 787's are crewed out of Hochiminh.
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Jet????
Had a look at the Cathay contract lately?
Had a look at the numberous contracts going in China of late?
Had a look at the Emirates contract of late?
Flight Deck Opportunities- First Officers
Job Reference: FO/SN/13423
Department: Flight Deck Crew
Company: Emirates Airline
Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates
The Emirates Group comprises of Dnata, the successful Airport Ground Services and Travel Industry division, and Emirates, the Group's rapidly expanding and award winning international Airline. At Emirates, our fleet growth matches our vision.
As a global airline we operate the latest Airbus A340, A330, A380 and Boeing 777 aircraft, serving all five continents and flying to over 100 destinations around the world. In addition we have over US$60 billion of new aircraft on order, which will take the Emirates fleet from our current 138 to 200 by 2012 and to around 300 by 2016.
To operate our expanding fleet we are now recruiting for the best pilots globally to work within our multi-cultural team of over 150 nationalities. Besides career growth, Dubai is a tourism centre and modern cosmopolitan city with high standards of healthcare, education and leisure pursuits for residents. It also is one of the most desirable lifestyle locations in the world for families and individuals.
The Position: We offer technically proficient First Officers challenging career opportunities, which include world-class training, the chance to fly an extensive international route network and good prospects for upgrade to Captain.
Salary & Benefits: For information on our recently updated terms and conditions for Flight Crew positions, please visit www.emiratesgroupcareers.com. Our website also has a wealth of information on the airline, employee benefits and living in Dubai.
Requirements: For the position of First Officer (prior to joining):
Air China Cargo (China) Minimum Qualifications / Hours:üValid ICAO ATPL (no limitations on B744)üB747-400 PIC type ratingüTotal time: Minimum 5,000 hoursüTotal B744 PIC time: Minimum 500 hoursüHave flown B744 within 6 months, the last Proficiency Test is still within the term of validityüAt least 1 year experience flying international routes as PIC and minimum 500 flight hoursüAge under 56 years old at start of contractüICAO English level 4 or above or English Proficiency endorsementKey benefits:Payment: US$13,200* net per month; *note: a. ground & flight training period - first 4 weeks US$6,000 netb. route flight under supervision - second 4 weeks US$9,600 netc. from 3rd month onwards, work as a junior captain US$12,000 net/per monthd. from upgrading to PIC, US$13,200 net per month
Yangtze River Express (China)B744 CaptainsMinimum requirements:
That's a good start, should keep you going for awhile.
Don't believe everything Jetstar management tells you Jetsbest!
Life must be just peachy in your low wage nirvana!
As the slogan should say, "ALL DAY, EVERY DAY ,LOW PAY"
What a great future, 'suppose that's progress for you!
Had a look at the Cathay contract lately?
Had a look at the numberous contracts going in China of late?
Had a look at the Emirates contract of late?
Flight Deck Opportunities- First Officers
Job Reference: FO/SN/13423
Department: Flight Deck Crew
Company: Emirates Airline
Location: Dubai, United Arab Emirates
The Emirates Group comprises of Dnata, the successful Airport Ground Services and Travel Industry division, and Emirates, the Group's rapidly expanding and award winning international Airline. At Emirates, our fleet growth matches our vision.
As a global airline we operate the latest Airbus A340, A330, A380 and Boeing 777 aircraft, serving all five continents and flying to over 100 destinations around the world. In addition we have over US$60 billion of new aircraft on order, which will take the Emirates fleet from our current 138 to 200 by 2012 and to around 300 by 2016.
To operate our expanding fleet we are now recruiting for the best pilots globally to work within our multi-cultural team of over 150 nationalities. Besides career growth, Dubai is a tourism centre and modern cosmopolitan city with high standards of healthcare, education and leisure pursuits for residents. It also is one of the most desirable lifestyle locations in the world for families and individuals.
The Position: We offer technically proficient First Officers challenging career opportunities, which include world-class training, the chance to fly an extensive international route network and good prospects for upgrade to Captain.
Salary & Benefits: For information on our recently updated terms and conditions for Flight Crew positions, please visit www.emiratesgroupcareers.com. Our website also has a wealth of information on the airline, employee benefits and living in Dubai.
Requirements: For the position of First Officer (prior to joining):
- A minimum of 4,000 hours total flying time.
- A minimum of 2,000 hours flown in multi-crew, multi-engine jet aircraft. Preference will be given to pilots with > 2000 hours on medium to heavy sized jets.
- Applicants must hold a current ICAO ATPL.
- English language fluency is essential (minimum to ICAO ELP Level4).
- All applicants must be current within the last 12 months prior to the date of joining.
Air China Cargo (China) Minimum Qualifications / Hours:üValid ICAO ATPL (no limitations on B744)üB747-400 PIC type ratingüTotal time: Minimum 5,000 hoursüTotal B744 PIC time: Minimum 500 hoursüHave flown B744 within 6 months, the last Proficiency Test is still within the term of validityüAt least 1 year experience flying international routes as PIC and minimum 500 flight hoursüAge under 56 years old at start of contractüICAO English level 4 or above or English Proficiency endorsementKey benefits:Payment: US$13,200* net per month; *note: a. ground & flight training period - first 4 weeks US$6,000 netb. route flight under supervision - second 4 weeks US$9,600 netc. from 3rd month onwards, work as a junior captain US$12,000 net/per monthd. from upgrading to PIC, US$13,200 net per month
Yangtze River Express (China)B744 CaptainsMinimum requirements:
- Total time: Minimum of 5,000 hours
- Total B747-400 PIC time: Minimum of 500 hours
- Have flown B747-400 & have Sim Check within the last 6 months
- Current license and B747-400 type rating.
- Age under 56 years at start of contract (may be negotiable).
- Total time: Minimum of 3,000 hours
- Total B747-400 FO time: Minimum of 500 hours
- Have flown B747-400 & have Sim Check within the last 6 months
- Current license and B747-400 type rating.
- Age under 56 years at start of contract (may be negotiable).
That's a good start, should keep you going for awhile.
Don't believe everything Jetstar management tells you Jetsbest!
Life must be just peachy in your low wage nirvana!
As the slogan should say, "ALL DAY, EVERY DAY ,LOW PAY"
What a great future, 'suppose that's progress for you!
Last edited by blow.n.gasket; 27th Oct 2009 at 10:57.
Other jobs available.
Apologies as it is a bit of a thread drift but with regards the above listed jobs;
I had often thought of Emirates or Etihad as somethign to aspire too...just had a look at the posts in the Middle East Forums.
Holy cow doesn't seem like a nice place to be at all!
I had often thought of Emirates or Etihad as somethign to aspire too...just had a look at the posts in the Middle East Forums.
Holy cow doesn't seem like a nice place to be at all!
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Jetstar terms and conditions asian bases
Hi All,
Anyone got any info about flight crew terms and conditions for Jetstar International with the new asian base.
Not sure if it will be in Singapore, KL or Ho Chi Minh.
The Qantas group own two holding companies called Orangestar and Newstar holdings.
Talk is that a pilot base with different contracts will be established in Asia to fly the A330-200's then the 787's.
Not great for the JQ guys and gals on Aus agreements but it will lower the cost base not having to overnight crews in Asia en-route to southern Europe.
It would be sad if it happened but look at JQ NZ compared to JQ AUS.
Anyone got any info about flight crew terms and conditions for Jetstar International with the new asian base.
Not sure if it will be in Singapore, KL or Ho Chi Minh.
The Qantas group own two holding companies called Orangestar and Newstar holdings.
Talk is that a pilot base with different contracts will be established in Asia to fly the A330-200's then the 787's.
Not great for the JQ guys and gals on Aus agreements but it will lower the cost base not having to overnight crews in Asia en-route to southern Europe.
It would be sad if it happened but look at JQ NZ compared to JQ AUS.
In future there are likely to be two kinds of airlines;
1. Low costs operating on thin margins with low fares and minimal service.
2. Premium carriers catering to those prepared to pay more and located in places where those people can be found in sufficient numbers to make it viable.
Australia is a relatively small market located at the end of the line. Unlike Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Abu Dhabi and increasingly Qatar it's not a natural hub and doesn't have access to cheap labour. Airlines located in these places can target the premium traffic between most points in the world. Cathay can target Paris - Sydney via Hong Kong, Emirates can target India - New York via Dubai, Singapore Airlines can target Johannesburg - Bali via Singapore.
Labour laws in the above mention places don't exactly favour the employee. If EK want to hire Thai flight attendents at half price of European ones there's nothing to stop them.
These carriers are either relatively new and not carrying the baggage of how things used to be done (EK/EY) or efficiently run anyway (CX/SQ).
If QF can support its overheads and still be profitable then fair enough. Unfortunately it may be too expensive for the bongans when compared to a lean low cost operating from a portacabin in the car park and not good enough for the higher end when compared to CX or SQ.
The fancy offices, mega $$$ executive pay, high staff costs and unionised working practices contributed significantly to Ansetts downfall. Everyone at QF needs to be realistic about what it can deliver for them with the competition it faces, otherwise it may end up with a General Motors style bail out and restructuring.
1. Low costs operating on thin margins with low fares and minimal service.
2. Premium carriers catering to those prepared to pay more and located in places where those people can be found in sufficient numbers to make it viable.
Australia is a relatively small market located at the end of the line. Unlike Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Abu Dhabi and increasingly Qatar it's not a natural hub and doesn't have access to cheap labour. Airlines located in these places can target the premium traffic between most points in the world. Cathay can target Paris - Sydney via Hong Kong, Emirates can target India - New York via Dubai, Singapore Airlines can target Johannesburg - Bali via Singapore.
Labour laws in the above mention places don't exactly favour the employee. If EK want to hire Thai flight attendents at half price of European ones there's nothing to stop them.
These carriers are either relatively new and not carrying the baggage of how things used to be done (EK/EY) or efficiently run anyway (CX/SQ).
If QF can support its overheads and still be profitable then fair enough. Unfortunately it may be too expensive for the bongans when compared to a lean low cost operating from a portacabin in the car park and not good enough for the higher end when compared to CX or SQ.
The fancy offices, mega $$$ executive pay, high staff costs and unionised working practices contributed significantly to Ansetts downfall. Everyone at QF needs to be realistic about what it can deliver for them with the competition it faces, otherwise it may end up with a General Motors style bail out and restructuring.
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This is just the beginning Jetstar people..
All "growth" will be offshore..
The quick command seen as the panacea of the Jetstar pilot is fast drying up...
Jetstar Asia applies for Singapore-Tokyo Haneda rights
All "growth" will be offshore..
The quick command seen as the panacea of the Jetstar pilot is fast drying up...
Jetstar Asia applies for Singapore-Tokyo Haneda rights
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Which would explain why (hypocrites that they are) JQ pilots are joining AIPA now in droves.
Having successfully $hit on the rest of the industry they now want a union to come and bail them out of their own mess !
Rick Heaton where are you now ??????????
Unbelievable
Having successfully $hit on the rest of the industry they now want a union to come and bail them out of their own mess !
Rick Heaton where are you now ??????????
Unbelievable
Rick Heaton where are you now ??????????
Nice one!
Will be interesting to see if the JQ boys 'defend their flying' in any way whatsoever. It wouldn't seem right if they did! After all, they have priced themselves out of further expansion with 'years of inefficiency and their overcomplicated contract'.
If you chisel the crack yourself, don't be surprised when you fall into it!
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Mohikan
Its actually AIPA thats chasing JQ membership. Not a hard job considering Buchanan has been a big help.
Maybe they have more foresight than you, where it might just be better to work with them rather than face having to compete with them.
Which do you think Joyce/Buchanan would prefer?
Its actually AIPA thats chasing JQ membership. Not a hard job considering Buchanan has been a big help.
Maybe they have more foresight than you, where it might just be better to work with them rather than face having to compete with them.
Which do you think Joyce/Buchanan would prefer?
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AIPA is being pragmatic here. Jetstar isn't going to go away so they can either fight the Jetstar/AFAP or work with them as members.
Mainline pilot who wish Jetstar would dissolve in a puff of smoke should check themselves into Hotel Reality.
Mainline pilot who wish Jetstar would dissolve in a puff of smoke should check themselves into Hotel Reality.