ICAO Pushing SMS will send the industry broke
PPRuNeaholic
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Cairns FNQ
Posts: 3,255
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the posts that have been made since my last visit, it's clear that CASA hasn't the slightest idea about SMS. The first thing they should've done, which would've been of significant value as a learning tool, was to have rewritten all their own internal manuals with a basis in SMS. That way, they'd have started to understand many of the aspects that they don't currently understand.
Nobody is going to get an integrated SMS off the ground very quickly or easily, unless they've already had some first-hand experience of why it's necessary. However, there should be plenty of evidence in Australian GA of the benefits of SMS - from the mini-airline to the flying school and agricultural operator. There is certainly a great deal of evidence around the world to suggest that ATS providers, airport operators, refuellers, et al, will also see significant benefits in SMS as a way to save money by making the work as safe as can possibly be envisaged.
I believe there are some in CASA who understand the real concept but it seems that few of these are out in the field and that "the good word" is yet to filter down to the rank and file. SMS actually CAN and should be applied to CASA, as much as to the industry and the industry should be vocal enough to bring CASA to task for it.
Then - and only then - will there be a sensible approach to SMS because the CASA enforcement troops will understand that there's no such thing as a "one size fits all" solution. That might be a convenient way to package it for those who have never had to deal with it, but it won't lead to good SMS outcomes for anyone. Of course, it will be harder for CASA staff to evaluate SMS material that is provided in manuals produced by all types of certificate holders and CASA will have to start thinking outside the box.
The same is most certainly true of many other regulators around the world, who have rushed to embrace SMS by virtue of the ICAO-mandated requirement.
It really isn't rocket science, as other posters have agreed. In fact, there are many operators, large and small, who've had SMS in one form or another since well before it was mandated - indeed, well before there was even a formal name for it. The day-to-day safety practices are the important ones because they feed into every aspect of every operation and formalising into a document helps to ensure standardisation and consistency throughout a company, regardless of how often staff changes occur, or what staff are involved in the changes.
It is part of the SOPS, but is more than the SOPS. It's a living, breathing document that needs to change, from time to time, to reflect changing ways and means of operation. This applies as much to operators as to every other type of organisation that has any involvement in aviation. That means that it MUST apply equally to CASA and it's own staff.
SMS works through integration with every aspect of every task within every organisation. This is why it is more than SOPS and more even that the Rules that CASA as made to require the industry to adopt SMS. At the end of the day, no matter what line of work you're in, you want some sort of surety that you'll be home for dinner each night - or at the pub, or whatever you normally do after work.
There is as much scope for this within CASA as there is everywhere else - not just in the aviation industry either.
Nobody is going to get an integrated SMS off the ground very quickly or easily, unless they've already had some first-hand experience of why it's necessary. However, there should be plenty of evidence in Australian GA of the benefits of SMS - from the mini-airline to the flying school and agricultural operator. There is certainly a great deal of evidence around the world to suggest that ATS providers, airport operators, refuellers, et al, will also see significant benefits in SMS as a way to save money by making the work as safe as can possibly be envisaged.
I believe there are some in CASA who understand the real concept but it seems that few of these are out in the field and that "the good word" is yet to filter down to the rank and file. SMS actually CAN and should be applied to CASA, as much as to the industry and the industry should be vocal enough to bring CASA to task for it.
Then - and only then - will there be a sensible approach to SMS because the CASA enforcement troops will understand that there's no such thing as a "one size fits all" solution. That might be a convenient way to package it for those who have never had to deal with it, but it won't lead to good SMS outcomes for anyone. Of course, it will be harder for CASA staff to evaluate SMS material that is provided in manuals produced by all types of certificate holders and CASA will have to start thinking outside the box.
The same is most certainly true of many other regulators around the world, who have rushed to embrace SMS by virtue of the ICAO-mandated requirement.
It really isn't rocket science, as other posters have agreed. In fact, there are many operators, large and small, who've had SMS in one form or another since well before it was mandated - indeed, well before there was even a formal name for it. The day-to-day safety practices are the important ones because they feed into every aspect of every operation and formalising into a document helps to ensure standardisation and consistency throughout a company, regardless of how often staff changes occur, or what staff are involved in the changes.
It is part of the SOPS, but is more than the SOPS. It's a living, breathing document that needs to change, from time to time, to reflect changing ways and means of operation. This applies as much to operators as to every other type of organisation that has any involvement in aviation. That means that it MUST apply equally to CASA and it's own staff.
SMS works through integration with every aspect of every task within every organisation. This is why it is more than SOPS and more even that the Rules that CASA as made to require the industry to adopt SMS. At the end of the day, no matter what line of work you're in, you want some sort of surety that you'll be home for dinner each night - or at the pub, or whatever you normally do after work.
There is as much scope for this within CASA as there is everywhere else - not just in the aviation industry either.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, Pete
"This is because the costs they have to charge to cover the ridiculous ICAO-type paperwork and requirements which Australia seems to be copying means they cannot run a viable industry – in effect, they go broke and provide no service at all."
Neither of you have explained this statement. Just what onerous requirements have been put on "electronics shops" (next thing Dick will be talking about the wireless in his aircraft!). Dick, when you kicked off this scare fest you made this statement and you still have no evidence to support your argument. You trot out somebody you prodded for a response but still you have not supported your own argument. Where is the proof. Tell us what onerous requirement has been put on "electronics shops" and how is going to send them broke?
Neither of you have explained this statement. Just what onerous requirements have been put on "electronics shops" (next thing Dick will be talking about the wireless in his aircraft!). Dick, when you kicked off this scare fest you made this statement and you still have no evidence to support your argument. You trot out somebody you prodded for a response but still you have not supported your own argument. Where is the proof. Tell us what onerous requirement has been put on "electronics shops" and how is going to send them broke?
Thread Starter
Spike, you are correct and I am wrong. What would pete know about costs reducing the number of shops as he stated in posts 38 and 39 -he's only a maintenance shop owner.
And what would that dumb american jounalist know in the origional post.
And what would I know about business costs.
Keep increasing the paperwork and denying that safety regulation has to be affordable.
The big "cargo cult" from the sky will solve everything!
And what would that dumb american jounalist know in the origional post.
And what would I know about business costs.
Keep increasing the paperwork and denying that safety regulation has to be affordable.
The big "cargo cult" from the sky will solve everything!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Dick, Dick Dick!
I have only asked you for proof to support the statement you opened the thread with. It is obvious to me now that you don't have the proof. Neither does Pacific Pete. Remember, I am talking about the thread you started. Yes excessive paperwork does make it harder for businesses.
You have exposed yourself Dick. Usually you do your research, or pay somebody to do it for you. This time you went off half-cocked Dick. Next time do the research. Don't just write the issue off because you don't like the messenger. You will lose even more credibility than you have already lost within professional aviation.
You have exposed yourself Dick. Usually you do your research, or pay somebody to do it for you. This time you went off half-cocked Dick. Next time do the research. Don't just write the issue off because you don't like the messenger. You will lose even more credibility than you have already lost within professional aviation.
Thread Starter
I did my research, - there will be more of these organisations closing down as GA is destroyed.
Making it "harder for business" can and will close down a marginal business which many are.
You really have no idea about business!
Making it "harder for business" can and will close down a marginal business which many are.
You really have no idea about business!
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Australia
Age: 64
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SMS Fan
SMS does not have to be an expensive tool. If you are comaring it to an ISO standard then you are barking up the wrong tree. The SMS should be proportional to the size of the organisation. I not trying to flog the CASA line but the CASA web site on SMS does a pretty good job of explaining the concept. How you implement it and how effective it is is up to the ceo.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fury and Flying Spike,and no Dick !
I agree entirely with 'Fury' and 'Spike' here 
.
I am not a CASA advocate, but they actually have their 'ducks in a row' on the website. Quite obviously myself, Fury and Spike are persons who have a background in Safety Systems and understand it in the full context of costs, benefits and what is actually involved with an SMS. Those who bag it quite simply dont understand it, and those who think it will send industry broke not only dont understand it, but are naieve and out of their league to pass comment on it. I have personal experience with SMS within the Oil and Gas Industry, plus SMS also exists in onshore Petroleum and the Mining Industry, its actually been around for 'eons'.
Again, I respect every persons right to make comments, hey, thats what these forums are for, but the fact is that SMS creates a safer working environment, it creates a cost reduced environment for an operator due to the increases they gain in safety awareness, documentation, reporting, analysis and investigations which all lead to less incidents or accidents.
As for Dick, you may be a small business guru who has made a healthy living, and good for you, but equally, I am an SMS guru who has saved companies a hell of a lot of money by helping them to adopt, implement and effectively manage SMS in to their organisations framework.
I can assure all those operators who dont understand SMS or fear those three letters dont be afraid of the unknown, SMS works and will work for you !!
. I am not a CASA advocate, but they actually have their 'ducks in a row' on the website. Quite obviously myself, Fury and Spike are persons who have a background in Safety Systems and understand it in the full context of costs, benefits and what is actually involved with an SMS. Those who bag it quite simply dont understand it, and those who think it will send industry broke not only dont understand it, but are naieve and out of their league to pass comment on it. I have personal experience with SMS within the Oil and Gas Industry, plus SMS also exists in onshore Petroleum and the Mining Industry, its actually been around for 'eons'.
Again, I respect every persons right to make comments, hey, thats what these forums are for, but the fact is that SMS creates a safer working environment, it creates a cost reduced environment for an operator due to the increases they gain in safety awareness, documentation, reporting, analysis and investigations which all lead to less incidents or accidents.
As for Dick, you may be a small business guru who has made a healthy living, and good for you, but equally, I am an SMS guru who has saved companies a hell of a lot of money by helping them to adopt, implement and effectively manage SMS in to their organisations framework.
I can assure all those operators who dont understand SMS or fear those three letters dont be afraid of the unknown, SMS works and will work for you !!
Last edited by my oleo is extended; 21st Sep 2009 at 11:52. Reason: Poor Spelling, again.
Thread Starter
my oleo is extended, flying-spike and OzExpat
You don’t put your real names because possibly you are all on the gravy train for SMS. Great little earner, or should I say “great big earner”.
Can you explain how a DAMP (“drug and alcohol management plan”) costing about $20,000 can improve the viability of a small electronics servicing company at Bankstown Airport with about twenty staff?
The owners are not making any money and they have almost a monopoly in their field at Bankstown. The $20,000 a year will quite possibly put them out of business,
Pacific Pete, the actual owner of a business that has been operating for over twenty years says:
DERR. Doesn’t this mean that some businesses are closing down?
I end by making this comment from Pacific Pete:
These are quotes from someone who is being affected. The fact that there were once twelve avionics shops at Bankstown and there are now only three is a fact. I wouldn’t be surprised when one day there isn’t one!
You don’t put your real names because possibly you are all on the gravy train for SMS. Great little earner, or should I say “great big earner”.
Can you explain how a DAMP (“drug and alcohol management plan”) costing about $20,000 can improve the viability of a small electronics servicing company at Bankstown Airport with about twenty staff?
The owners are not making any money and they have almost a monopoly in their field at Bankstown. The $20,000 a year will quite possibly put them out of business,
“So here we go with an SMS requirement that is going to cost considerably more than the DAMP"
“Dick's point about it being onerous is spot on for the GA MRO's. The gradual increase in regualtory burden has seen an gradual decrease in the amount of MRO's available"
I end by making this comment from Pacific Pete:
“In small organisations the ability to meet all of the criterior dreamed up by public servants who have too much time on their hands is costing Australia dearly by the loss of small business's that just cant cope”.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: on the edge
Posts: 823
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Can you explain how a DAMP (“drug and alcohol management plan”) costing about $20,000
From a site online, for example of costs
The Aviation Industry DAMP Testing Kit * is a great way to get your DAMP started. The kit contains:
Product Value Sale Price
Aviation Industry Education and Awareness Training Free
Record of Training $5
25 x Sure Step Drug Test Cups ** $575
Drug Test Record Book (50 triplicate forms) $65 20 x Specimen Containers $25 Alcosense Precision Workplace Breathalyser *** $395
Alcosense Precision Mouthpieces (100) $60
Alcohol Testing Form $5 Total $1,150
Casual observation...wasn't this the reason Ansett got grounded? The CASA relying on a company to self audit?
And how does this relate to SMS?
Cheers
Blackhand
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 705
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Self Audit
May have been the cause, I don't know. But there is a difference between being left to your own devices and what CASA will be doing. From what I understand, an organisation's SMS will still be audited but against what they have had approved and hopefully what they say they are doing. Sounds reasonable.
I won't Dick tease anymore but I would point out that from what I have seen he he may be a voice in the wilderness on this issue. There appears to be a lot of support for better safety management but he is opposed to it, at least in the form of a contemporary SMS, shaped to an operators own requirements. Perhaps he could come up with a better model than ICAO's? Who knows? Probably more to the point who cares?
I won't Dick tease anymore but I would point out that from what I have seen he he may be a voice in the wilderness on this issue. There appears to be a lot of support for better safety management but he is opposed to it, at least in the form of a contemporary SMS, shaped to an operators own requirements. Perhaps he could come up with a better model than ICAO's? Who knows? Probably more to the point who cares?
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Dick' less
The vote is in and the verdict is unanimous - Dick Loses.
Its actually sad that Dick resorts to mud slinging about the possibility that myself, Spike and Expat are on the 'gravy train'. What a weak and shallow response. Spike`s question remains unanswered Dick, show us the proof, evidence and facts about your claims ? Dont just bleat and moan about some companies you know that are going to the wall due to SMS. Easy comments to make, but obviously too hard to back up with PROOF.
1)Dick Says :
You don’t put your real names because possibly you are all on the gravy train for SMS. Great little earner, or should I say “great big earner
My answer: Wrong. I cant speak for Spike or Expat, but as for me, no gravy train, no consultancy work here. My comments are based on expert experience within heavy industry and safety systems, its that simple.I have earned the right to make my accurate statements based on experience, whereas you shoot from the mouth and think you are the epitomy of knowledge and fact, when in reality you are speaking pure crap !
I am proud to make reference to the number of organisations I have assisted, made safer, made more profitable, and made more valuable overall. As for attaching names to my 'postings', why should I ? Have you forgotten its a free country and free speach remember ? I dont have a giant ego that needs feeding like you do, hence I dont feel or crave the urge to publicly dribble endless amounts of ****e in the paper, on tv, wherever I can, with my name and picture attached ! Thats your department and you do it very well I might add !
And as for your comments about gravy trains and money earners, well thats exactly what you are about Dick. Money, not safety. Sounds to me like sour grapes, I think perhaps the new legislation has seen you dig into your grubby little pocket and thats what hurts you the most? Not a surprising show of arrogance or an unexpected display of arrogance from you. Control freaks tend to dislike having to comply with other peoples rules, obviously this is another area of weakness within you.
Again, it seems that Dick is a little jealous that there is a chance that somebody is making a heap of money from a SMS, and perhaps you are envious that you didnt start flogging SMS instead of Mice many years ago ?
2) Dick says :
Can you explain how a DAMP (“drug and alcohol management plan”) costing about $20,000 can improve the viability of a small electronics servicing company at Bankstown Airport with about twenty staff?
My Answer : Paying 20k for DAMP won't improve the viability of the company you mentioned because they have been absolutely and utterly ripped off.This particular company has nobody to blame but themselves, nobody forced them to pay 20k. Again, Dick, if you were less emotional,rational and knowledgeable you would know that 'your friends' were ripped off. Quite simply, buyer beware !! A DAMP can cost less than 2k.
3) Dick says :
The owners are not making any money and they have almost a monopoly in their field at Bankstown. The $20,000 a year will quite possibly put them out of business,
My Answer: Sounds like they are more the victims of a disasterous global economy and poor business skills for shelling out 20k in the first place.Thats why they are in a hole. You say they have an almost monopoly in their area but yet are in financial peril due to SMS?? Typical response, people are always looking to blame others for their own mistakes.
Morale of this thread --- Dick, you know nothing about SMS.
Its actually sad that Dick resorts to mud slinging about the possibility that myself, Spike and Expat are on the 'gravy train'. What a weak and shallow response. Spike`s question remains unanswered Dick, show us the proof, evidence and facts about your claims ? Dont just bleat and moan about some companies you know that are going to the wall due to SMS. Easy comments to make, but obviously too hard to back up with PROOF.
1)Dick Says :
You don’t put your real names because possibly you are all on the gravy train for SMS. Great little earner, or should I say “great big earner
My answer: Wrong. I cant speak for Spike or Expat, but as for me, no gravy train, no consultancy work here. My comments are based on expert experience within heavy industry and safety systems, its that simple.I have earned the right to make my accurate statements based on experience, whereas you shoot from the mouth and think you are the epitomy of knowledge and fact, when in reality you are speaking pure crap !
I am proud to make reference to the number of organisations I have assisted, made safer, made more profitable, and made more valuable overall. As for attaching names to my 'postings', why should I ? Have you forgotten its a free country and free speach remember ? I dont have a giant ego that needs feeding like you do, hence I dont feel or crave the urge to publicly dribble endless amounts of ****e in the paper, on tv, wherever I can, with my name and picture attached ! Thats your department and you do it very well I might add !
And as for your comments about gravy trains and money earners, well thats exactly what you are about Dick. Money, not safety. Sounds to me like sour grapes, I think perhaps the new legislation has seen you dig into your grubby little pocket and thats what hurts you the most? Not a surprising show of arrogance or an unexpected display of arrogance from you. Control freaks tend to dislike having to comply with other peoples rules, obviously this is another area of weakness within you.
Again, it seems that Dick is a little jealous that there is a chance that somebody is making a heap of money from a SMS, and perhaps you are envious that you didnt start flogging SMS instead of Mice many years ago ?
2) Dick says :
Can you explain how a DAMP (“drug and alcohol management plan”) costing about $20,000 can improve the viability of a small electronics servicing company at Bankstown Airport with about twenty staff?
My Answer : Paying 20k for DAMP won't improve the viability of the company you mentioned because they have been absolutely and utterly ripped off.This particular company has nobody to blame but themselves, nobody forced them to pay 20k. Again, Dick, if you were less emotional,rational and knowledgeable you would know that 'your friends' were ripped off. Quite simply, buyer beware !! A DAMP can cost less than 2k.
3) Dick says :
The owners are not making any money and they have almost a monopoly in their field at Bankstown. The $20,000 a year will quite possibly put them out of business,
My Answer: Sounds like they are more the victims of a disasterous global economy and poor business skills for shelling out 20k in the first place.Thats why they are in a hole. You say they have an almost monopoly in their area but yet are in financial peril due to SMS?? Typical response, people are always looking to blame others for their own mistakes.
Morale of this thread --- Dick, you know nothing about SMS.
Thread Starter
GOTCHA! You do make money from SMS!
The article I quoted in post 1 was actually not written by me. If SMS is effecting the viability of small maintenance companies in the USA we can only imagine what is happening here where the market is so much smaller.
I don't have to be an expert on SMS to understand what extra costs that do not increase income can do to a business.
Get your charges in quick!
Before even more go broke.
More " unafordable safety" is on the way!
The article I quoted in post 1 was actually not written by me. If SMS is effecting the viability of small maintenance companies in the USA we can only imagine what is happening here where the market is so much smaller.
I don't have to be an expert on SMS to understand what extra costs that do not increase income can do to a business.
Get your charges in quick!
Before even more go broke.
More " unafordable safety" is on the way!
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You Got Me Dick You Got Me, Oh The Shame !
Foolish Man.
If you think that working for a Mining Organisation or working for an Oil and Gas Organisation in a salaried safety role is 'making money from SMS' then you got me Dick !!
My friend, you are more stupid than you look on television.
You see, and for the benefit of those who dont understand safety(Dick), my experience I mentioned incorporated a host of safety requirements rolled into the one PD such as - SMS AND Compliance, Accident Investigations, Safety Implementation programs, Industry Advisery Boards and the list goes on.Yes,SMS was a component,I have no problems with that.Hell, I have even had the priveledge of leading investigations into workers that have been killed,afterall 'Investigations' is part of an SMS,but i am sure you think still that I was benefiting from this somehow. What a joyful task to perform, pity you werent there to share the moment with me.
As for your explanation -' it wasnt me who wrote the statement', who cares. You are a supporter of the statement simply by supporting it. Thats what you do best though, you copy or latch on to others comments or statements, you dont actually have a first hand knowledge or understanding personally. Jeez, what a surprise !
But I will say this - Aviation is the last 'heavy industry' basically, to adapt SMS. If through the implementation of SMS the airline industry in Australia becomes half as safe as oil,petroleum and mining,then its safer skies ahead.But of course Dick, you would no doubt think you know everything about safety in those industries as well wouldnt you ??
Either way, whether you are a fan of SMS or not, its here to stay. And no matter how loud you squeal Dick, you wont stop it !!!
Will we ever have an accident free industry regardless of what safety sytem is in play, of course not. Can we improve the system with SMS, you bet.
Now I suggest you get back to your little helicopter, cup of green tea and dry cruskets and leave the job of managing safety to the experts. I am sure you need to order some soldering irons or lightbulbs for your stores !!
If you think that working for a Mining Organisation or working for an Oil and Gas Organisation in a salaried safety role is 'making money from SMS' then you got me Dick !!
My friend, you are more stupid than you look on television.
You see, and for the benefit of those who dont understand safety(Dick), my experience I mentioned incorporated a host of safety requirements rolled into the one PD such as - SMS AND Compliance, Accident Investigations, Safety Implementation programs, Industry Advisery Boards and the list goes on.Yes,SMS was a component,I have no problems with that.Hell, I have even had the priveledge of leading investigations into workers that have been killed,afterall 'Investigations' is part of an SMS,but i am sure you think still that I was benefiting from this somehow. What a joyful task to perform, pity you werent there to share the moment with me.
As for your explanation -' it wasnt me who wrote the statement', who cares. You are a supporter of the statement simply by supporting it. Thats what you do best though, you copy or latch on to others comments or statements, you dont actually have a first hand knowledge or understanding personally. Jeez, what a surprise !
But I will say this - Aviation is the last 'heavy industry' basically, to adapt SMS. If through the implementation of SMS the airline industry in Australia becomes half as safe as oil,petroleum and mining,then its safer skies ahead.But of course Dick, you would no doubt think you know everything about safety in those industries as well wouldnt you ??
Either way, whether you are a fan of SMS or not, its here to stay. And no matter how loud you squeal Dick, you wont stop it !!!
Will we ever have an accident free industry regardless of what safety sytem is in play, of course not. Can we improve the system with SMS, you bet.
Now I suggest you get back to your little helicopter, cup of green tea and dry cruskets and leave the job of managing safety to the experts. I am sure you need to order some soldering irons or lightbulbs for your stores !!
Oleo - you have shot yourself in the foot by loosing your professionalism and slanging off at the man rather than staying on topic.
You are contributing nothing to the safety cause now.
I am familiar with all this.
The DAMP I fall under cost about $100 in materials. Casa supplied the template which you can change around to suit. The programe we have has passed its first official Casa audit.
The SMS I have been involved in cost about $200 in materials.
Once again there is a lot on offer free on the net with Casa and others.
The system has passed many audits over the past 8 years ( both Casa and outside auditors ). We are better for having the SMS.
Where the real cost to GA is the time consumed to put it all together.
It takes out key productive staff for an immense amount of time but still better than spending on a off the shelf manual.
And then continues to take considerable productive time from there on.
Much of this time is at the cost of running the business.
You can loose your productive edge and if your not carefull reduce the standards you have maintained in the past.
When you join together all the other Casa requirements / Casa FOI's personal opinions, other departmental red tape ect, QA, anti aviation airport landlords, equipment / parts escalations, security, user pays, staff training, old age, eventually it will get you. The young guys are not going take over, there too busy chasing the airlines / casa jobs ect and are not going to put up with all the frustration we go through.
So Dick is sort of correct, rather its for all these reasons not just the SMS.
Get your eye back on the ball guys and contribute to safety.
You are contributing nothing to the safety cause now.
I am familiar with all this.
The DAMP I fall under cost about $100 in materials. Casa supplied the template which you can change around to suit. The programe we have has passed its first official Casa audit.
The SMS I have been involved in cost about $200 in materials.
Once again there is a lot on offer free on the net with Casa and others.
The system has passed many audits over the past 8 years ( both Casa and outside auditors ). We are better for having the SMS.
Where the real cost to GA is the time consumed to put it all together.
It takes out key productive staff for an immense amount of time but still better than spending on a off the shelf manual.
And then continues to take considerable productive time from there on.
Much of this time is at the cost of running the business.
You can loose your productive edge and if your not carefull reduce the standards you have maintained in the past.
When you join together all the other Casa requirements / Casa FOI's personal opinions, other departmental red tape ect, QA, anti aviation airport landlords, equipment / parts escalations, security, user pays, staff training, old age, eventually it will get you. The young guys are not going take over, there too busy chasing the airlines / casa jobs ect and are not going to put up with all the frustration we go through.
So Dick is sort of correct, rather its for all these reasons not just the SMS.
Get your eye back on the ball guys and contribute to safety.