Howard breaks his silence: Work Choices should've stayed
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Quote:Including on a lot of pathetic individuals on this forum.
Indeed!. C'mon Howy!..., give the Ruddster more of what he needs.....that is you (Kim-Il)in the news!! Many in the country would now associate the Coalition with the following 'mind map'...Coalition = Howard (and those left..hockey, turnbull, bishop (Gee wasn't she good! Does she write her own material? Thought not
), Minchin, Costello, Andrews, Robb etc etc) = bowl of rice a day..bowl of rice a day..bowl of rice a day..bowl of rice a dayLiberal = Bowl of rice a day...Liberal = bowl of rice a day....Liberal = Bowl of rice day ...Liberal bowl of rice a day...Liberal (Sunday) = bowl of rice, dash of sauce......Liberal = bowl of rice.....
Their own worst enemy.....
Come out with some more Howy, just as Ruddster starts to slide in the polls, Ki Il helps him out by...just making an appearance..........Priceless
Bowl of rice, bowl of rice, bowl of rice.......can't wait for Sunday......Mr Turnbull will spit some sauce in my bowl......
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Well said bilbert, such short memories some of our ALP supporting/left leaning PPRuNers have, and for some a frontal lobotomy would be a distinct improvement!
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I must have a short-term memory issue, possibly induced by one too many socialist chardonnays, however, that being the case, stating that work choices was enacted by a Labor government in 1989, is, to use restrained language, factually incorrect.
Silly Old Git
Well I remember the Whitlam gulag Wiley.
Of course,
Comparisons with the economic turmoil under the Whitlam Labor government in the 1970s, while looking increasingly justified, would be lost on many youngvoters.
Rudd on the road to ruin | The Australian
Of course,
Comparisons with the economic turmoil under the Whitlam Labor government in the 1970s, while looking increasingly justified, would be lost on many youngvoters.
It's scary to think - when you consider the enormous effect they had on the Australian economy - that there were only three 'Whitlam years'. I wonder if taxpayers in years to come, as they (attempt to?) pay off the huge debt the country is currently incurring, will be saying something similar about the Rudd years?
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The many comments under the article tinpis has provided the link to are probably more illuminating than the article itself.
The article is possibly misnamed. Perhaps it would be more accurately named "Australia on the Road to Ruin Under the Rudd Helm".
The article is possibly misnamed. Perhaps it would be more accurately named "Australia on the Road to Ruin Under the Rudd Helm".
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An inconvenient truth.......
...........for the right wing fascists who skulk around here ?
Australia best placed to beat recession: survey
Australia best placed to beat recession: survey
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ditch handle, since it can be assumed that in backing Our Kev, you're quite obviously an intelligent, well balanced individual (see my post #146 above), I would have thought you'd have saved Danny the unnecessary use of bandwidth in using such a tautological term as 'right wing fascists'.
I suppose that in being unable to see Our Emperor Kev's new clothes - and believeing him and his policies will leave not just hiim, but all of us stark bollocky naked, I have to put myself in there among the tautological right wing fascists.
I suppose that in being unable to see Our Emperor Kev's new clothes - and believeing him and his policies will leave not just hiim, but all of us stark bollocky naked, I have to put myself in there among the tautological right wing fascists.
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Tautology?
Really
From wiki on Fascism.
"According to scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascist ideology, and argue that fascism is a search for a third way among all these views.[27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35] Roger Griffin claims that fascist movements have become more monolithically right-wing, and fascism has become intertwined with the radical right.[36][37]"
Really
From wiki on Fascism.
"According to scholars of fascism, there are both left and right influences on fascist ideology, and argue that fascism is a search for a third way among all these views.[27][28][29][30][31][32][33][34][35] Roger Griffin claims that fascist movements have become more monolithically right-wing, and fascism has become intertwined with the radical right.[36][37]"
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I'm not sure which is more interesting Wiley.
One,that you admit that Howard supporters are tautological right wing fascists or secondly,that you didn't know that fascists are not necessarily right wing.
It's good to see that Howard supporters can still be taught something.
One,that you admit that Howard supporters are tautological right wing fascists or secondly,that you didn't know that fascists are not necessarily right wing.
It's good to see that Howard supporters can still be taught something.
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...and you, an intelligent, well balanced individual, use Wikipedia as a reference? Says a lot, that does, quite a lot. Take a look in a real dictionary. A left wing fascist is called a communist. The only real difference between the two is that for a communist, the 'people' (aka 'the State') replace Big Business as the entity (usually, in both cases mis)running the show.
Point score not accepted.
The Libs, for all their (by me) admitted faults, weren't quite in the fascist camp, although they certainly attracted some who would like to be - just like Kev's Mob certainly attracts a few who wish they could run what many would call a communist system. (Inaccurately, I must admit, but certainly socialist, which in relationship to communism, is bit like being 'just a little bit pregnant'.)
Our Kev's recent 7000 word essay comes immediately to mind...
Point score not accepted.
The Libs, for all their (by me) admitted faults, weren't quite in the fascist camp, although they certainly attracted some who would like to be - just like Kev's Mob certainly attracts a few who wish they could run what many would call a communist system. (Inaccurately, I must admit, but certainly socialist, which in relationship to communism, is bit like being 'just a little bit pregnant'.)
Our Kev's recent 7000 word essay comes immediately to mind...
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Wiley,
I don't need Wikipedia to be able to understand political and ideological distinctions.
A left wing fascist is not a communist.While a narrow focus can find areas in which fascism and communism might share some similarities, a broader and deeper view suggests that they are quite the opposite. It is significant that in historical terms the two movements have been bitter enemies, and this confirms the impression that in terms of principle they are really opposite.
Therefore to say a left wing fascist is a communist is a contradiction in terms.
Communist movements can be sectarian in terms of ideology, but while fascism attacks what people intrinsically are, communism attacks only their behavior. The difference is fundamental, for socialism seeks to develop everyone, while fascism excludes or eliminates all but a group that therefore ends being statically pure.
While communist movements can be nationalist at certain points and national movements socialist, they don't seem intrinsically so.
In particular, communists are principled internationalists, while fascists are quite the opposite, aiming at exclusion, not inclusion.
In any case I think Howards comments regarding Work Choices are like many other ex PM's who still can't handle the fact that they lost an election and in Howards case his seat as well.
I don't need Wikipedia to be able to understand political and ideological distinctions.
A left wing fascist is not a communist.While a narrow focus can find areas in which fascism and communism might share some similarities, a broader and deeper view suggests that they are quite the opposite. It is significant that in historical terms the two movements have been bitter enemies, and this confirms the impression that in terms of principle they are really opposite.
Therefore to say a left wing fascist is a communist is a contradiction in terms.
Communist movements can be sectarian in terms of ideology, but while fascism attacks what people intrinsically are, communism attacks only their behavior. The difference is fundamental, for socialism seeks to develop everyone, while fascism excludes or eliminates all but a group that therefore ends being statically pure.
While communist movements can be nationalist at certain points and national movements socialist, they don't seem intrinsically so.
In particular, communists are principled internationalists, while fascists are quite the opposite, aiming at exclusion, not inclusion.
In any case I think Howards comments regarding Work Choices are like many other ex PM's who still can't handle the fact that they lost an election and in Howards case his seat as well.
Grandpa Aerotart
communists are principled internationalists,
You forgetting the 10s of millions of people murdered by communist regimes...or just denying it happened?
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Chimbu Chuckles,
Your post is actually one of the most naive I have seen in this thread.
It looks as though you have no idea what an internationalist is or what is meant by the statement "principled internationalists".
Are you telling us that only communist regimes have murdered millions of people?
There have been countless totalitarian states both left and right wing that have murdered millions.To suggest that it is only communist states that have committed genocide is not only myopic but dangerously naive.
When I said
I was talking in an ideological sense.Obviously you like many other Howard supporters use the terms left wing,socialist and communist with any real knowledge of what you are talking about.
From the beginning communists have always emphasized international solidarity. As Marx and Engels expressed in the Communist Manifesto, "Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things ... they labor everywhere for the union and agreement of the democratic parties of all countries."
That is what I meant by communists being principled internationalists.
This is the opposite of fascism where the basic dogma is one of superiority and inferiority and the resultant exclusion of certain races.Fascism never sought to protect itself by spreading world revolution as communism does or did!
It was Marx who said workers have no country.That is what I meant by an internationalist.
Your post is actually one of the most naive I have seen in this thread.
It looks as though you have no idea what an internationalist is or what is meant by the statement "principled internationalists".
Are you telling us that only communist regimes have murdered millions of people?
There have been countless totalitarian states both left and right wing that have murdered millions.To suggest that it is only communist states that have committed genocide is not only myopic but dangerously naive.
When I said
communists are principled internationalists, while fascists are quite the opposite, aiming at exclusion, not inclusion.
From the beginning communists have always emphasized international solidarity. As Marx and Engels expressed in the Communist Manifesto, "Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things ... they labor everywhere for the union and agreement of the democratic parties of all countries."
That is what I meant by communists being principled internationalists.
This is the opposite of fascism where the basic dogma is one of superiority and inferiority and the resultant exclusion of certain races.Fascism never sought to protect itself by spreading world revolution as communism does or did!
It was Marx who said workers have no country.That is what I meant by an internationalist.
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This all started when the slaves in our society were given pay rises by the industrial commissions and found that they could then afford to fly around the world
Give the workers cake, remove economy class from aircraft and make them WALK.
Now will that make all the well paid airline workers happy
Give the workers cake, remove economy class from aircraft and make them WALK. Now will that make all the well paid airline workers happy
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Resurgent unions up ante in new round of workplace demands
Resurgent unions up ante in new round of workplace demands
Ewin Hannan and Patricia Karvelas | May 28, 2009
Article from: The Australian
`UNIONS will challenge the Rudd Government to lift restrictions on pattern bargaining and strikes while urging federal support for a national charter of union rights that would force companies to pay employees when they are conducting union activities.
In a sweeping workplace agenda to be considered at next week's national ACTU Congress, unions will call on Labor to embrace a second-term workplace blueprint that removes obstacles to industry-wide bargaining, repeals penalties for industrial action and bans restrictions on the content of workplace agreements.
The Australian has obtained a series of policies and motions to be considered by congress, including union proposals to change Labor's Fair Work bill where it does "not comply with the ACTU's expectations for fair industrial laws".
Its proposed industrial relations policy calls on a second-term Labor government to allow workers to strike in support of pattern bargaining and remove obstacles to "industry-level bargaining".
As part of a broader agenda, unions will also consider campaigning to lift the minimum wage to $600 a week within two years; will push to dramatically extend paid parental leave; and will run a test case to provide paid leave to new mothers for child-bonding.
Unions will call for an end to all future free trade agreements and demand local regional companies be given a 25 per cent price advantage when bidding for government contracts under a revamped Buy Australia campaign.
The union movement will use the agenda mapped out at congress to press the Government to support more pro-union proposals at the ALP national conference in July and August.
Despite gains made during the Government's first term - centered on the winding back of the Howard government workplace laws - many unions want the ALP to take a second wave of workplace changes to voters at the next federal election, describing the push as "unfinished business".
But Workplace Relations Minister Julia Gillard has told union leaders not to expect another raft of major changes after the Fair Work Bill becomes law on July1.
Strategies to try to rejuvenate union membership levels will dominate the congress, with a proposed national charter looming as a centerpiece of the ACTU's recruitment plans.
Unions will be asked to support a charter of workplace union delegate rights the ACTU will seek to have enshrined in law and included in workplace agreements.
Under the charter, union delegates would have the right to reasonable paid time off to participate in the operation of a union, and to attend union education.
Delegates would have the right to paid time during normal working hours to consult with union members; represent the interests of members to an employer and industrial tribunals; and the right
to "reasonable information" about a business.
Delegates would also have reasonable access to telephone, facsimile, photocopying, email and internet facilities to carry out union business, and the right to take reasonable leave to work with the union.
According to the policy, union delegates must receive recognition for the key role they play. "These rights should not have to be bargained," it says. "They should be universally accepted rights in a decent society."
The charter was a "guide for fair standards for all union delegates and will be pursued by unions for inclusion in collective bargaining agreements, award entitlements and in Australian law as rights for endorsed workplace union delegates".
"These rights are basic and fair," it says. "Union delegates are entitled to know their role is recognised and respected. Unions will campaign to build these rights over time into workplaces across the country."
At the congress, left-wing unions will put forward a series of radical positions, including a government-funded infrastructure bank and increased limits on skilled immigration.
In a document to be distributed next week at the congress, the unions have created a single position called "A union response to the GFC", which calls for a major overhaul of government positions in light of the collapse of the financial system.
The combined position calls for a change to the Fair Work bill in areas such as right of entry, prohibitions on pattern bargaining and "excessive penalties against workers and trade unions" as a priority, and the removal of the mandatory 24-hour notice for accredited union officials to enter workplaces.
They also call for the establishment of a new financial institution - "the National Infrastructure Development Corporation" - which would act as a government-owned investment bank for infrastructure, with a commonwealth guarantee and an appropriate amount of seed capital, to leverage "deals that better protect the public interest". The corporation will also seek money from superannuation funds and private capital. They will push for the abolition of all potential free trade agreements, and that all major trade agreements contemplated by Australia, bilateral and multilateral, to be independently assessed to ensure they not only support "but strengthen international standards on the environment, labour rights as set by the ILO, human rights; and sustainable development and environmental protection for all regions of Australia".
They also want tight controls over companies that win Government contracts so that they fulfil the ACTU's Infrastructure Expenditure Principles which emphasise the apprentice/trainee ratios, local content (supplies and equipment), local labour (limits to 457 visa and other guest workers). and consultative workplace relations. And the left wing unions want the Rudd Government to redirect all current Government subsidies to the private health sector ($4.8 billion in 2007-08) to public hospitals.'
____________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
Couple this with Labor's (Union) new industrial relations laws, the Emisions Trading Scheme, Climate Change legislation and the Global Financial Crisis and employment, jobs, manufacturing industries will continue to increasingly flee overseas.
One continues to be surprised that the Neanderthals have learnt little over the years.
DK
Ewin Hannan and Patricia Karvelas | May 28, 2009
Article from: The Australian
`UNIONS will challenge the Rudd Government to lift restrictions on pattern bargaining and strikes while urging federal support for a national charter of union rights that would force companies to pay employees when they are conducting union activities.
In a sweeping workplace agenda to be considered at next week's national ACTU Congress, unions will call on Labor to embrace a second-term workplace blueprint that removes obstacles to industry-wide bargaining, repeals penalties for industrial action and bans restrictions on the content of workplace agreements.
The Australian has obtained a series of policies and motions to be considered by congress, including union proposals to change Labor's Fair Work bill where it does "not comply with the ACTU's expectations for fair industrial laws".
Its proposed industrial relations policy calls on a second-term Labor government to allow workers to strike in support of pattern bargaining and remove obstacles to "industry-level bargaining".
As part of a broader agenda, unions will also consider campaigning to lift the minimum wage to $600 a week within two years; will push to dramatically extend paid parental leave; and will run a test case to provide paid leave to new mothers for child-bonding.
Unions will call for an end to all future free trade agreements and demand local regional companies be given a 25 per cent price advantage when bidding for government contracts under a revamped Buy Australia campaign.
The union movement will use the agenda mapped out at congress to press the Government to support more pro-union proposals at the ALP national conference in July and August.
Despite gains made during the Government's first term - centered on the winding back of the Howard government workplace laws - many unions want the ALP to take a second wave of workplace changes to voters at the next federal election, describing the push as "unfinished business".
But Workplace Relations Minister Julia Gillard has told union leaders not to expect another raft of major changes after the Fair Work Bill becomes law on July1.
Strategies to try to rejuvenate union membership levels will dominate the congress, with a proposed national charter looming as a centerpiece of the ACTU's recruitment plans.
Unions will be asked to support a charter of workplace union delegate rights the ACTU will seek to have enshrined in law and included in workplace agreements.
Under the charter, union delegates would have the right to reasonable paid time off to participate in the operation of a union, and to attend union education.
Delegates would have the right to paid time during normal working hours to consult with union members; represent the interests of members to an employer and industrial tribunals; and the right
to "reasonable information" about a business.
Delegates would also have reasonable access to telephone, facsimile, photocopying, email and internet facilities to carry out union business, and the right to take reasonable leave to work with the union.
According to the policy, union delegates must receive recognition for the key role they play. "These rights should not have to be bargained," it says. "They should be universally accepted rights in a decent society."
The charter was a "guide for fair standards for all union delegates and will be pursued by unions for inclusion in collective bargaining agreements, award entitlements and in Australian law as rights for endorsed workplace union delegates".
"These rights are basic and fair," it says. "Union delegates are entitled to know their role is recognised and respected. Unions will campaign to build these rights over time into workplaces across the country."
At the congress, left-wing unions will put forward a series of radical positions, including a government-funded infrastructure bank and increased limits on skilled immigration.
In a document to be distributed next week at the congress, the unions have created a single position called "A union response to the GFC", which calls for a major overhaul of government positions in light of the collapse of the financial system.
The combined position calls for a change to the Fair Work bill in areas such as right of entry, prohibitions on pattern bargaining and "excessive penalties against workers and trade unions" as a priority, and the removal of the mandatory 24-hour notice for accredited union officials to enter workplaces.
They also call for the establishment of a new financial institution - "the National Infrastructure Development Corporation" - which would act as a government-owned investment bank for infrastructure, with a commonwealth guarantee and an appropriate amount of seed capital, to leverage "deals that better protect the public interest". The corporation will also seek money from superannuation funds and private capital. They will push for the abolition of all potential free trade agreements, and that all major trade agreements contemplated by Australia, bilateral and multilateral, to be independently assessed to ensure they not only support "but strengthen international standards on the environment, labour rights as set by the ILO, human rights; and sustainable development and environmental protection for all regions of Australia".
They also want tight controls over companies that win Government contracts so that they fulfil the ACTU's Infrastructure Expenditure Principles which emphasise the apprentice/trainee ratios, local content (supplies and equipment), local labour (limits to 457 visa and other guest workers). and consultative workplace relations. And the left wing unions want the Rudd Government to redirect all current Government subsidies to the private health sector ($4.8 billion in 2007-08) to public hospitals.'
____________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________
Couple this with Labor's (Union) new industrial relations laws, the Emisions Trading Scheme, Climate Change legislation and the Global Financial Crisis and employment, jobs, manufacturing industries will continue to increasingly flee overseas.
One continues to be surprised that the Neanderthals have learnt little over the years.
DK
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DK...
Let me see if I understand you and other supporters of the ousted John Howard.....
Labour is run by the unions and a vote for Labour is a vote for the unions.....
An article in the Australian comes out saying that the unions are not happy with the Labour governments policies....
So in effect the unions don't run or dictate policy of the Labour government because they disagreed with the Liberal Party as well....so the unions do whatever they want whoever is in government.
Which one is it or do you guys want to keep going with more senseless rubbish.
Let me see if I understand you and other supporters of the ousted John Howard.....
Labour is run by the unions and a vote for Labour is a vote for the unions.....
An article in the Australian comes out saying that the unions are not happy with the Labour governments policies....
So in effect the unions don't run or dictate policy of the Labour government because they disagreed with the Liberal Party as well....so the unions do whatever they want whoever is in government.
Which one is it or do you guys want to keep going with more senseless rubbish.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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No Lowerlobe, it isn't "senseless rubbish", as you suggest.
The ALP said one thing in opposition and in particular during the run up to the last election but now that they are in power they are not keeping their word to the unions, hence, unions pissed off. very simple really.
The ALP said one thing in opposition and in particular during the run up to the last election but now that they are in power they are not keeping their word to the unions, hence, unions pissed off. very simple really.
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parabellum....
The strange part about politics is that both parties will tell you without blinking that the other aprty are a bunch of thieves and misfits...
If Howard or Costello or whoever is the leader of the Liberal party had a certain plan and by sheer chance the Labour party came out with the same concept the Libs would tell everyone that the plan was the worst thing for Australia even though they think it's the best...
Howard supporters were spitting the dummy and posting comments like yours 2 minutes after it was realised that Howard was going to lose.It does not matter how good Rudd is or the Labour party government does you and others would still be posting senseless rubbish.
Whatever party is in opposition will tell you that the government does not know what it is doing....you will always disagree with what Rudd does so there is no point in any continuation of this thread....
Between politics and religion there will never be agreement....
The strange part about politics is that both parties will tell you without blinking that the other aprty are a bunch of thieves and misfits...
If Howard or Costello or whoever is the leader of the Liberal party had a certain plan and by sheer chance the Labour party came out with the same concept the Libs would tell everyone that the plan was the worst thing for Australia even though they think it's the best...
Howard supporters were spitting the dummy and posting comments like yours 2 minutes after it was realised that Howard was going to lose.It does not matter how good Rudd is or the Labour party government does you and others would still be posting senseless rubbish.
Whatever party is in opposition will tell you that the government does not know what it is doing....you will always disagree with what Rudd does so there is no point in any continuation of this thread....
Between politics and religion there will never be agreement....