Merged: All you want to know about A380 for CC!
Join Date: May 2005
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yes but the MAM knew this when they applied.
They were fully aware of the conditions and accepted them!
they are not QANTAS employees.
Sounds harsh, but its the reality.
They were fully aware of the conditions and accepted them!
they are not QANTAS employees.
Sounds harsh, but its the reality.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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As a side......
How many LH crew actually read your current EBA before voting on it?
By 'read' I mean picked it up and read it cover to cover. What is going to happen in the next few years comes from that EBA. The same in short haul. These facilitative agreements clauses are written in the document that got voted up by crew who would work under these conditions.
I am not 'company' and I am not 'union'. I am a crew member who read the SH EBA cover to cover prior to casting a vote.
How many of you can claim the same?
How many LH crew actually read your current EBA before voting on it?
By 'read' I mean picked it up and read it cover to cover. What is going to happen in the next few years comes from that EBA. The same in short haul. These facilitative agreements clauses are written in the document that got voted up by crew who would work under these conditions.
I am not 'company' and I am not 'union'. I am a crew member who read the SH EBA cover to cover prior to casting a vote.
How many of you can claim the same?
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They may not read it but many try and become informed.
There is a big difference when applying for a job.
It clearly states that you are employed BY MAM
all know there is no staff travel or sick leave and annual leave.
Come on they do tell you this ad nausea um
There is a big difference when applying for a job.
It clearly states that you are employed BY MAM
all know there is no staff travel or sick leave and annual leave.
Come on they do tell you this ad nausea um
Last edited by OCCR; 15th May 2009 at 01:24.
Join Date: Mar 2002
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the real deal is in that the young boys/girls (QCD) to cross on fixed term straight to the A380.
QCD are all Perth based... The company has the right to choose from all applicants according to operational requirements.
Where does it say QD crew can apply for the fixed-term?! Only crew employed by QAL are eligible to apply. It is the the first sentence of the information sheet.
Or is there some deal for QD that has been kept secret?
Who wants the domestic flying anyway????????????
Gotta love the uneducated hysteria. Not.
By the way. Judging by the number of Beehives and senior ex-LH crew at the fax machine it may very well be some relatively senior people going across. Not one of the nine women at the fax machine at 0630 yesterday were under 25 years seniority. Had a laugh as I walked past.
lnavvnav makes a valid point. Many seniors are talking about the higher base salaries in relation to directed leave. And I have heard the term 'swan song' many times over the last week or so.
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Ditzyboy.
Correct. Only QAL can apply. My typo.
The only 'young boys/girls' who have been employed to QAL in the past couple of years have all had to go to Perth (except some original AO crew)- but most have already been flying with MAM or Regional airlines for a few years. The only way they will be given a slot is if any of the QCCA crew take up a QD spot in Perth.
Correct. Only QAL can apply. My typo.
The only 'young boys/girls' who have been employed to QAL in the past couple of years have all had to go to Perth (except some original AO crew)- but most have already been flying with MAM or Regional airlines for a few years. The only way they will be given a slot is if any of the QCCA crew take up a QD spot in Perth.
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Mr Paxing,
if it was all about getting young faces on the A380 they would have just continued to compel the QCCA crew (generally younger) onto the A380
The Tri-Partite agreement still give total priority to the QAL LH crew, however the lack of a seniority bid system on A380 is the major inhibitor i understand that.
Therefore if seniority and the bid system is so important its better that the QCCA crew remain in 747 world to prop up the bid system for the junior QAL crew and send the SH crew to A380 land where their seniority will have no impact on the bidding of QAL crew in 747 land
There is no way on earth that the company is going to introduce seniority on the A380. Its going to be fair share and from what i understand the majority of A380 crew at this stage seem to like it. THat may change over time but until there is a groundswell of support for seniority from the A380 crew themselves its not going to happen
No deal in IR is perfect, its about the possible. Its only about what you can get qantas to agree to and they are not going to unpick the eba after 15 months when there are viable alternatives. Hey, if there wasnt Workchoices who knows what might have been possible in negotiations for A380 but you have to play the hand that you are dealt
if it was all about getting young faces on the A380 they would have just continued to compel the QCCA crew (generally younger) onto the A380
The Tri-Partite agreement still give total priority to the QAL LH crew, however the lack of a seniority bid system on A380 is the major inhibitor i understand that.
Therefore if seniority and the bid system is so important its better that the QCCA crew remain in 747 world to prop up the bid system for the junior QAL crew and send the SH crew to A380 land where their seniority will have no impact on the bidding of QAL crew in 747 land
There is no way on earth that the company is going to introduce seniority on the A380. Its going to be fair share and from what i understand the majority of A380 crew at this stage seem to like it. THat may change over time but until there is a groundswell of support for seniority from the A380 crew themselves its not going to happen
No deal in IR is perfect, its about the possible. Its only about what you can get qantas to agree to and they are not going to unpick the eba after 15 months when there are viable alternatives. Hey, if there wasnt Workchoices who knows what might have been possible in negotiations for A380 but you have to play the hand that you are dealt
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just got back from a little trip and the troops dont seem to be too happy about this deal by the FAAA.
here is the consensus what the crew made of this deal...
...once again the FAAA LH fails its members(not my words but general feeling amongst the troops).
A ranting from a mixed senority crew
here is the consensus what the crew made of this deal...
...once again the FAAA LH fails its members(not my words but general feeling amongst the troops).
A ranting from a mixed senority crew
Join Date: May 2005
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pegasus
seniority may not be a big deal at the moment on the 380, however I give it until the next recruitment or better still until SH go across!
the comments will start! then it will be" I have been at this a lot longer "and I should have more say!
When the destinations and desirable trips start... you watch the shiiit fight.
seniority may not be a big deal at the moment on the 380, however I give it until the next recruitment or better still until SH go across!
the comments will start! then it will be" I have been at this a lot longer "and I should have more say!
When the destinations and desirable trips start... you watch the shiiit fight.
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It will be interesting to see how many temporary and permanent transfers are actioned. Apparently a lot of senior SH crew are seeking a permanent transfer as they won't have to go to the A380. Rumours in the lounge today that there may be around 100 permanent transfers. Many more junior crew are happy to take a temporary transfer, they don't get what they bid for at shorthaul anyway, so will put up with no seniority and fly on the A380. Of course, if you take a temporary transfer, you may not even end up on the A380, nothing is guaranteed!! Either way transfers both permanent and temporary are sure to be oversubscribed.
Many of the crew headed to LH are originally from LH anyway. They enjoyed being at SH when we had all the regional flying, but now it's gone, it's time to go back!!
Anyway applications are closed now, so we will know soon.
Many of the crew headed to LH are originally from LH anyway. They enjoyed being at SH when we had all the regional flying, but now it's gone, it's time to go back!!
Anyway applications are closed now, so we will know soon.
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Posted by lnavvnav
The problem is that this same attitude from S/H that started all the ill feeling still exists.If S/H wanted to fly internationally why didn't they apply for L/H?
Posted by twiggs
Not that I thought it would be any different but you have it wrong again twiggs.If there is any failure to get information out it is a failure of the company and the union.
They are the ones who drew this plan up and it is them who should be telling crew the details and not leaving it to galley gossip.
In response to all the crud about Short Haul taking all "OUR" flying.....no division owns any flying.
Posted by twiggs
Sound like you failed them mrpaxing,
They are the ones who drew this plan up and it is them who should be telling crew the details and not leaving it to galley gossip.
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Callbutton wrote
if you take a temporary transfer, you may not even end up on the A380, nothing is guaranteed!!
My understanding is that all fixed term transfers will eventually end up on the A380
If you tick "A380 only " you will only be called up when a position on the A380 becomes available
If you dont tick "A380 only " you may initially be flying on 747 A330 and 767 but then move across to A380 as they arrive.
TW
My understanding is that all fixed term transfers will eventually end up on the A380
If you tick "A380 only " you will only be called up when a position on the A380 becomes available
If you dont tick "A380 only " you may initially be flying on 747 A330 and 767 but then move across to A380 as they arrive.
TW
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Mate, as I've said time and again, when most MAM crew joined, there were no such thing as full time QAL jobs going. It was MAM, or no job. Individual circumstances are different, I had a mortgage to pay, so I had to work. I preferred to keep flying.
When I joined, we were told there'd be a good chance of applying for full time and thus getting a QAL job that way. Didn't happen. Yes, we knew the conditions when we signed, however we were hopeful of changing them for the better from the inside once we were in and had numbers. So far that hasn't happened, but it might be closer than we thought a year ago with the EBA up soon. I would have jumped at a full time job, only problem was, by the time they started offering QCCA, I was already in Perth. Not everyone want to live in Sydney or Melbourne- its about the lifestyle as well as the job. And I don't see why creww should have to take a drastic pay cut just to get sick leave.
Again, the transfer info sheet says QAL only, there iss no access to that information on the crew website for QD or MAM, besides it says you have to be in category for 2 years before you may transfer, so for the moment that rules out any QD anyway, aside from MAMs who transferred to QD, as their total service is counted for promotion etc.. at least, that's the way I read it. Is that correct Pegasus?
When I joined, we were told there'd be a good chance of applying for full time and thus getting a QAL job that way. Didn't happen. Yes, we knew the conditions when we signed, however we were hopeful of changing them for the better from the inside once we were in and had numbers. So far that hasn't happened, but it might be closer than we thought a year ago with the EBA up soon. I would have jumped at a full time job, only problem was, by the time they started offering QCCA, I was already in Perth. Not everyone want to live in Sydney or Melbourne- its about the lifestyle as well as the job. And I don't see why creww should have to take a drastic pay cut just to get sick leave.
Again, the transfer info sheet says QAL only, there iss no access to that information on the crew website for QD or MAM, besides it says you have to be in category for 2 years before you may transfer, so for the moment that rules out any QD anyway, aside from MAMs who transferred to QD, as their total service is counted for promotion etc.. at least, that's the way I read it. Is that correct Pegasus?
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ok boomerang.
the key words! thought and chance!
Hello we are talking about QF here.
"if its not in writing it never happened"
By the sounds of your post you want your cake and it eat too!
These days you have to go in with your eyes open! QF is a business and they will screw you!
Its only matter of time before we are done over as well! I expect that! its QF!
As an old commercial line stated!
"it wont happen overnight,but it will happen"
the key words! thought and chance!
Hello we are talking about QF here.
"if its not in writing it never happened"
By the sounds of your post you want your cake and it eat too!
These days you have to go in with your eyes open! QF is a business and they will screw you!
Its only matter of time before we are done over as well! I expect that! its QF!
As an old commercial line stated!
"it wont happen overnight,but it will happen"
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No, not really. I'm happy to stay where I am. I'm just trying to make the point that some people forget that MAM crew didn't have the option to choose to be full time or not, it was get what you're given.
Sure, it would be nice to a) be full time and b) go to the A380 but I know realistically that a lot has to change before either will happen. As I said, the best hoipe we have is to try better what we have got from where we stand now, I'm not trying to 'have my cake and eat it too', I'll leave that to some of the seniors who seem to want to go from SH to LH on the 380 but keep their bidding power!
Sure, it would be nice to a) be full time and b) go to the A380 but I know realistically that a lot has to change before either will happen. As I said, the best hoipe we have is to try better what we have got from where we stand now, I'm not trying to 'have my cake and eat it too', I'll leave that to some of the seniors who seem to want to go from SH to LH on the 380 but keep their bidding power!
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boomerand, looks like we are going around in circles.
you did have a choice! you accepted the job.
you stated that
Given! huh! you chose!
Now you're whining! no one twisted your arms!
basically what you are saying is! youre pissed off as you don't have a choice to go on the 380 because you took the big cash the last few years !
why didnt you apply for QCCA when it became available a year ago! lots of your MAM colleagues did! but you wanted the cash! didn't you!
you did have a choice! you accepted the job.
you stated that
MAM crew didn't have the option to choose to be full time or not, it was get what you're given.
Now you're whining! no one twisted your arms!
basically what you are saying is! youre pissed off as you don't have a choice to go on the 380 because you took the big cash the last few years !
why didnt you apply for QCCA when it became available a year ago! lots of your MAM colleagues did! but you wanted the cash! didn't you!
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I was optimistic about this idea working when I first heard it.After reading the posts since then I think it is going to be as successful as the charge of the light brigade.
International and domestic are like water and oil.I think the Palestinians and the Israelis will get along better than we do.
International and domestic are like water and oil.I think the Palestinians and the Israelis will get along better than we do.
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Using the old "you had a choice and you accepted the job" as an answer is not a valid one.
Once upon a time women were not allowed to vote........
Same sex marriages, White Australia policy, maternity/paternity leave etc etc.
Do we not undertake EBA negotiations periodically to improve and at the least maintain our conditions? Just because you accepted a MAM position does not mean you cannot try to improve your work conditions.
Plenty of MAM crew joined at a time when that was the only way in. A very limited number from the many who applied then moved to Perth for full-time QAL. This is not an option now. The goal posts keep moving.
Lets support all groups in order to become a better workforce.
Once upon a time women were not allowed to vote........
Same sex marriages, White Australia policy, maternity/paternity leave etc etc.
Do we not undertake EBA negotiations periodically to improve and at the least maintain our conditions? Just because you accepted a MAM position does not mean you cannot try to improve your work conditions.
Plenty of MAM crew joined at a time when that was the only way in. A very limited number from the many who applied then moved to Perth for full-time QAL. This is not an option now. The goal posts keep moving.
Lets support all groups in order to become a better workforce.
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Using the old "you had a choice and you accepted the job" as an answer is not a valid one.
Your argument is like joining a club or a game and then wanting to change the rules because they don't suit you or like those fools who buy a house near an airport then complain about the noise.
You made a decision and if you didn't do your homework then you have only yourself to blame.Why should others have to change their plans because you come onto the scene and want things moved around so that you feel better.
Life is not fair and thats the way it is.
Why didn't the mam crew apply for QCCA if they wanted to fly international?You chose to remain as a mam in s/h.
You are right in that it's normal to improve things for the better but not at the expense of others.