QANTAS - Sharing Of Flying
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LHR Base Comparison
Last look today and there were still $2 to an English pound.
The wage comparison is weak.
The exchange rate still makes LHR crews more expensive.
Legislation also places restrictions on the hours worked in a roster in Europe
Administration costs in LHR would disappear if the base closed.
The training facilities could be used by other carriers to train their crews on the A380.
It would therefore generate income.
The attrition rate in LHR is high.The cost of the constant recruitment would also be eliminated.
English based crews dont pay tax in Australia.More employees in Australia mean more tax revenue for Australia.
There is a lot spin on how productive the LHR base is.Face saving spin.
The benefits of closing the LHR far outway any cost saving....if indeed there is any.
QFUK is a separate business entity to QAL.It has the same basic structure as QCCA.They are both subsidiaries.Those individuals employed are not directly employed by Qantas Airways Ltd
Why in this current economic environment, where Australians are being put out of work,should an Australian Company have a foreign base?
Now is a good time to centralize the business and remove duplicated costs.
The closure of the AKL base is another option that needs to be looked at
The wage comparison is weak.
The exchange rate still makes LHR crews more expensive.
Legislation also places restrictions on the hours worked in a roster in Europe
Administration costs in LHR would disappear if the base closed.
The training facilities could be used by other carriers to train their crews on the A380.
It would therefore generate income.
The attrition rate in LHR is high.The cost of the constant recruitment would also be eliminated.
English based crews dont pay tax in Australia.More employees in Australia mean more tax revenue for Australia.
There is a lot spin on how productive the LHR base is.Face saving spin.
The benefits of closing the LHR far outway any cost saving....if indeed there is any.
QFUK is a separate business entity to QAL.It has the same basic structure as QCCA.They are both subsidiaries.Those individuals employed are not directly employed by Qantas Airways Ltd
Why in this current economic environment, where Australians are being put out of work,should an Australian Company have a foreign base?
Now is a good time to centralize the business and remove duplicated costs.
The closure of the AKL base is another option that needs to be looked at
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Just to add to that last post about Aussie jobs, I read in a different thread, that QF are advertising for cabin crew jobs in New Zealand to work for Jetconnect.
With the major restructure of Trans Tasman flying and the ramping up of Jetconnect in a big way with multiple 737 flights from the east coast of Australia to NZ, surely we should be insisting that current Australian based crew be operating these flights. If there is a surplus of crew and the company want to do all they can to avoid CR, well then surely this would be a good way to start. If indeed there really are adverts over there for cc jobs, then something needs to be done about it!
With the major restructure of Trans Tasman flying and the ramping up of Jetconnect in a big way with multiple 737 flights from the east coast of Australia to NZ, surely we should be insisting that current Australian based crew be operating these flights. If there is a surplus of crew and the company want to do all they can to avoid CR, well then surely this would be a good way to start. If indeed there really are adverts over there for cc jobs, then something needs to be done about it!
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According to JCs website they are only "Accepting Interest" for AKL base SH and LH Crew. As far as I can see QFUK is still "Recruiting Now", but no other sectors of the QF Group are currently taking on new CC.
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As I
mentioned in another thread there is a dual strategy in place by QF. once Jetconnect takes over most of the tasman flying on 737's starting June, it leaves more surplus S/H & L/H crew. The unions have to realise that they are being "sucked" in by the company putting more of local F/A's on partime/LWOP/etc. Both S/H &L/H unions should start applying politicial pressure and demand overseas base closures.
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mrpaxing... Jetconnect have been operating all the 737 Tasman flying for a long time now. They operate 737's painted as Qf aircraft and the cabin crew wear our uniform. The only extra Tasman flying they could take over is the flying that is currently 767. Maybe the company could replace these services with 737's operated by Jetconnect??
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you are correct
as there is some jetconnect 737's on the tasman. there was however a large present of S/h and L/H operating 737/767 which looks like most of it is going to jetconnect. also the 747 Qf25/26 will start/stop in Akl and the feeder from mel is a 737. more excess crew in both divisions.
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the surplus is managed in the division or airline that it falls into. The both divisions of the FAAA will no doubt work together to ensure that any chance of CR is avoided at all costs.
I am comfortable that each division can manage its own surplus effectively by working with the COmpany.
The LH division has introduced 75% rosteres, part-time, annual leave burn and LSL burn as well as LWOP.
There has been a total freeze on recruitment in overseas bases and as attrition occurs recruitment is no longer taking place overseas.
There is a rationalisation of all international and domestic flying taking place at the moment and both divisions of the FAAA are making submissions to the company about the best way in which to manage surpluses.
I think the only real danger of CR occuring is if when all leave in SH is burned and there is still a continuing downturn in the industry rather than a stabilisation.
i am confident that given that if there is not a continuing downturn that jobs can be protected without the need to resort to CR.
However, VR would have to be offered first and a number of other potential solutions that the unions and Qantas are looking at as we speak
I am comfortable that each division can manage its own surplus effectively by working with the COmpany.
The LH division has introduced 75% rosteres, part-time, annual leave burn and LSL burn as well as LWOP.
There has been a total freeze on recruitment in overseas bases and as attrition occurs recruitment is no longer taking place overseas.
There is a rationalisation of all international and domestic flying taking place at the moment and both divisions of the FAAA are making submissions to the company about the best way in which to manage surpluses.
I think the only real danger of CR occuring is if when all leave in SH is burned and there is still a continuing downturn in the industry rather than a stabilisation.
i am confident that given that if there is not a continuing downturn that jobs can be protected without the need to resort to CR.
However, VR would have to be offered first and a number of other potential solutions that the unions and Qantas are looking at as we speak
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it was brought in at the time of the merger with Australian Airlines but no longer has any relevance as far as i know. Further, i dont think given the IR laws now with separate EBA's and 4 different employers across the workforce it would be enforceable
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as i said before i dont think that Global Seniority is even remotely relevant anymore. When it was just LH/SH it might have but now there are QCCD,QCCA, MAM, International Division and Domestic Division, Part time, 75%, A380 dedicated crew etc etc ....
We could argue it but the Company would just say it would cause chaos and imbalances accross bases, fleets and divisions and that would probably cut quite some mustard in the Commission
The AIRC is not going to be about enforcing something that will add significant cost and inefficiency to a Company that is shedding workers already.
I would be interested in hearing anyones view on a technical argument that could be run, other than some argument about seniority which the AIRC already finds offensive and will not get any runs on the board
We could argue it but the Company would just say it would cause chaos and imbalances accross bases, fleets and divisions and that would probably cut quite some mustard in the Commission
The AIRC is not going to be about enforcing something that will add significant cost and inefficiency to a Company that is shedding workers already.
I would be interested in hearing anyones view on a technical argument that could be run, other than some argument about seniority which the AIRC already finds offensive and will not get any runs on the board
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it wouldnt be fair if they made sh cr that had been flying for 8 years and then to keep qcca that had been on the books for 1 year.
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Global Seniority
As it stands Global Seniority is an administrative quirk that has no bearing or relevance to anything.At the time it was it was introduced as appeasement for the beehives.
Each division will manage its own surplus.The reality is that QCCA will survive first because of their T and Cs over someone in S/H.
Before any of this comes to fruition measures already in place will deal with surpluses which will only exist in the short term.
As has been suggested the off shore bases should shoulder the burden before any Australian based employee loses his/her job.
Each division will manage its own surplus.The reality is that QCCA will survive first because of their T and Cs over someone in S/H.
Before any of this comes to fruition measures already in place will deal with surpluses which will only exist in the short term.
As has been suggested the off shore bases should shoulder the burden before any Australian based employee loses his/her job.
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Lack of Cohesion
Review the history of relations between LH and Domestics.It has been adversarial at best and treacherous at worst.It is not about to change.
Most in LH would not accept the loss of one LH position to protect the position of one domestic..
Thats the reality.
Each division management will deal with their own surpluses in their own way
Most in LH would not accept the loss of one LH position to protect the position of one domestic..
Thats the reality.
Each division management will deal with their own surpluses in their own way
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despite the tribalism that exists within the respective divisions, the FAAA and the Company will work together to ensure that "nobody" loses their job wherever possible.
There is a level of industrial maturity that exists between some of the union leadership and the business that isnt necessarily replicated in all unions. This maturity i hope will prevail so that the tribalisms of the past do not affect decision making that would see unnessary job loss where there are reasonable alternatives , that only require leadership to prevail
There is a level of industrial maturity that exists between some of the union leadership and the business that isnt necessarily replicated in all unions. This maturity i hope will prevail so that the tribalisms of the past do not affect decision making that would see unnessary job loss where there are reasonable alternatives , that only require leadership to prevail
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in a real good
relationship between unions communications would be open and trustworthy. given that the L/H union appears to read the latest S/H newsletter online about potential backroom deals its fair to assume they (S/H, nothing changed) would sell out anyone to promote the beehive tribes.
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don't be fooled Peg.... the two faces of the Domestics will rear its ugly head.
They will play nice to the Intl FAAA and "pretend" to make amends....and then all of a sudden WHAM they will shaft us like they have done before.
I'd trust QF management before the Domestic FAAA.....
John Pl.yf.......left them with a lasting legacy..
...
on another note the "death by napkins " post was hilarious
They will play nice to the Intl FAAA and "pretend" to make amends....and then all of a sudden WHAM they will shaft us like they have done before.
I'd trust QF management before the Domestic FAAA.....
John Pl.yf.......left them with a lasting legacy..
...on another note the "death by napkins " post was hilarious
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well it's sad that desperation often produces such behaviour....but its de rigour for that side of the flight attendant divide.
Long Haul crew have never chased Domestic Flying however it seems that the Domestic Division ( or a large percentage of them) based on the transfer list would really rather be doing International work!!
As an International Flight Attendant i can totally understand their desire to end the monotony of Canberra returns, but is trying to stitch up a deal on the A380 behind the LH back really the way to go???
Wouldnt you just be better off transferring all INternational FLying to the INternational DIvision and then chasing the work by transferring??
Long Haul crew have never chased Domestic Flying however it seems that the Domestic Division ( or a large percentage of them) based on the transfer list would really rather be doing International work!!
As an International Flight Attendant i can totally understand their desire to end the monotony of Canberra returns, but is trying to stitch up a deal on the A380 behind the LH back really the way to go???
Wouldnt you just be better off transferring all INternational FLying to the INternational DIvision and then chasing the work by transferring??
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that is exactly what I mean... they have already tried to stitch up the A380 behind our backs, and this is just the beginning.
even though I have been critical of some of MM policies in the past I know for one thing HE will never allow the Domestics to shaft us again.
even though I have been critical of some of MM policies in the past I know for one thing HE will never allow the Domestics to shaft us again.
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OCCR on that one you are 100% correct.
Despite the fact that Michael Mijatov has led the charge of trying to get the unions back together, and has often said to members that its more complex than members would necessarily see..i think we can now clearly see what the obstacles are to a marraige with them.
I mean whilst dicussions of getting back together are simmering away in the background they are out there cheating on you like the town bike with anyone that can pleasure them
I think any chance of getting back together with the SH FAAA will have to be postponed until their current leadership (or lack thereof) is replaced by a more competent and trustworthy bunch
Perhaps some enterprising LH crew can find some fed up SH crew who may require some assistance in getting them elected and replace the current misguided mad hatters tea party at bunnings
Despite the fact that Michael Mijatov has led the charge of trying to get the unions back together, and has often said to members that its more complex than members would necessarily see..i think we can now clearly see what the obstacles are to a marraige with them.
I mean whilst dicussions of getting back together are simmering away in the background they are out there cheating on you like the town bike with anyone that can pleasure them
I think any chance of getting back together with the SH FAAA will have to be postponed until their current leadership (or lack thereof) is replaced by a more competent and trustworthy bunch
Perhaps some enterprising LH crew can find some fed up SH crew who may require some assistance in getting them elected and replace the current misguided mad hatters tea party at bunnings
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hmmmmm
even then though would you trust them!
its in their blood! I think its best we go at this one alone! we always get betters results.
lets use all our resources to protect our jobs.
From what i have been told they are leaving the Domestic FAAA in droves.
Its a shame that people like "domestos" have to endure that lot! it would be great to have him in LH
even then though would you trust them!
its in their blood! I think its best we go at this one alone! we always get betters results.
lets use all our resources to protect our jobs.
From what i have been told they are leaving the Domestic FAAA in droves.
Its a shame that people like "domestos" have to endure that lot! it would be great to have him in LH
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i think if they are leaving its because there doesnt appear to be any leadership. It seems that the whole joint is run by beehives for beehives.
I fail to see how they are remotely relevant to MAM casuals or any other members. The MAM casuals are mightily pissed off that they are just seen as some stop gap measure to ensure the beehives have their FWA
If the SH FAAA were serious about repesenting their entire division they would have one EBA that covers QAL, MAM and QCCD... rather than three different EBA's that fail to produce any cohesive workforce.
I fail to see how they are remotely relevant to MAM casuals or any other members. The MAM casuals are mightily pissed off that they are just seen as some stop gap measure to ensure the beehives have their FWA
If the SH FAAA were serious about repesenting their entire division they would have one EBA that covers QAL, MAM and QCCD... rather than three different EBA's that fail to produce any cohesive workforce.