QANTAS - Sharing Of Flying
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The Origins of Nonsense
The stuff that emanates from the domestics always seems to have a touch of Melbourne Madness to it.
Its fanciful,never thought through and has a twist of invective thrown in for good measure.
The Sydney domestic base is largely ex LH(or appears so)and as such is a little more rational.
GalleyHag is always ready to find some hidden slight in every LH post.
Domestos you remind me of a child who has come to the realization that the wrong family took the wrong baby home from the hospital.You clearly belong in LH where your sense of humour would be most welcome.
There is as yet not enough information to form an opinion about anything.
The LH EBA regarding the A380 and who gets to fly it is quite clear.It certainly does not contain provisions for domestics on temporary secondment or otherwise.
The domestic union has been in bed with the company before.Once the company did the business the domestics were thrown out of bed and ended up on the floor...where they still are.They want to climb back into the sack and be done again .The company must be good at something.Either that or the domestic union just thrives on pain and humiliation
Its fanciful,never thought through and has a twist of invective thrown in for good measure.
The Sydney domestic base is largely ex LH(or appears so)and as such is a little more rational.
GalleyHag is always ready to find some hidden slight in every LH post.
Domestos you remind me of a child who has come to the realization that the wrong family took the wrong baby home from the hospital.You clearly belong in LH where your sense of humour would be most welcome.
There is as yet not enough information to form an opinion about anything.
The LH EBA regarding the A380 and who gets to fly it is quite clear.It certainly does not contain provisions for domestics on temporary secondment or otherwise.
The domestic union has been in bed with the company before.Once the company did the business the domestics were thrown out of bed and ended up on the floor...where they still are.They want to climb back into the sack and be done again .The company must be good at something.Either that or the domestic union just thrives on pain and humiliation
Join Date: Apr 2007
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After re-reading the shorthaul FAAA notice, I think there is definitely an intention to transfer a large portion of regional flying back to shorthaul. Quite simply we are cheaper than QF longhaul, so the company could make a significant cost saving. I believe the company have been considering this for a period of time, as AJ and his pals have been exploring cost savings in all areas of our operations.
I think the transfers which are being referred to by the union, relate to LH to SH. If the flying pool in shorthaul increases substantially, we will be in a position to allow some of our LH colleagues to transfer across to preserve their jobs. Of course they will have to take a Perth basing
I think the transfers which are being referred to by the union, relate to LH to SH. If the flying pool in shorthaul increases substantially, we will be in a position to allow some of our LH colleagues to transfer across to preserve their jobs. Of course they will have to take a Perth basing
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More Nonsense
Call Button...you live in Melbourne dont you?
Surpluses in LH are currently being managed through a number of initiatives.LWOP,part time,75% rosters and leave burn.
CR is the last and most expensive option the company has.The last VR was a non event.Those who wanted to leave have already left.For those that want to fade to black part time is an agreeable option.
Closing off shore bases to protect local jobs should be explored and highlighted to the company.QCCA in Australia offers the best cost saving of all the Qantas Tribes.It should be expanded anf the off shore bases closed.Contact your local memeber of parliament or ring Anthony Albanese the minister for Aviation.
Just remember..... this current situation is temporary.In 18 months everything will back to normal....whatever normal is
Surpluses in LH are currently being managed through a number of initiatives.LWOP,part time,75% rosters and leave burn.
CR is the last and most expensive option the company has.The last VR was a non event.Those who wanted to leave have already left.For those that want to fade to black part time is an agreeable option.
Closing off shore bases to protect local jobs should be explored and highlighted to the company.QCCA in Australia offers the best cost saving of all the Qantas Tribes.It should be expanded anf the off shore bases closed.Contact your local memeber of parliament or ring Anthony Albanese the minister for Aviation.
Just remember..... this current situation is temporary.In 18 months everything will back to normal....whatever normal is
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Packrat... I do not live in Melbourne.
I agree QCCA may be the most cost effective group, however QF longhaul are the most expensive, and currently the flying on the 747 and A330 is predominantly done by QF longhaul.
In times like this is makes absolute business sense to direct the flying to where the greatest cost savings can be achieved. As I understand, the agreement on the distribution of flying does not form part of either the LH or SH EBA, but is contained in a separate document. Maybe time will tell whether this agreement can actually be enforced by either division.
I agree QCCA may be the most cost effective group, however QF longhaul are the most expensive, and currently the flying on the 747 and A330 is predominantly done by QF longhaul.
In times like this is makes absolute business sense to direct the flying to where the greatest cost savings can be achieved. As I understand, the agreement on the distribution of flying does not form part of either the LH or SH EBA, but is contained in a separate document. Maybe time will tell whether this agreement can actually be enforced by either division.
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lets stick
with the current EBA. i am quite sure the l/h union will insist on the current divisional flying agreement. if Qf cant manage the current surplus the first choice should be to close LHR/BKK/AKL. remove casuals from s/h and sit out the downturn. L/H had had directed leave for quite some time and its time for our domestic collegues to burn their leave. that should take many f/a's out of the system for some time. what you guys in s/h have to understand there is a double stategy in place.. yes, it is a severe downtunr in domestic and international flying and AJ wants to cut some routes but he also wants to give J* a significant boost on the domestic scene.
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Peg 747
As you know the FAAA of either division would NEVER put anything in writing to members unless discussions were well underway in regard to transfer of flying and A380 the FAAA is stupid but not that stupid.
There is nothing in the long haul EBA stating that domestic crew cant join QCCA and operate the A380 if there is please tell me where I can find it I just went through the EBA and I believe domestic's who join QCCA would be under their terms and conditions. If the COMPANY not the long haul FAAA give permission for domestic crew to take LWOP thats their decision not the long haul FAAA's decision.
As for the closure of the Cairns base and direct entry to long haul, two words KEEP DREAMING. You coudnt help them before and you cant help them now.
As you know the FAAA of either division would NEVER put anything in writing to members unless discussions were well underway in regard to transfer of flying and A380 the FAAA is stupid but not that stupid.
There is nothing in the long haul EBA stating that domestic crew cant join QCCA and operate the A380 if there is please tell me where I can find it I just went through the EBA and I believe domestic's who join QCCA would be under their terms and conditions. If the COMPANY not the long haul FAAA give permission for domestic crew to take LWOP thats their decision not the long haul FAAA's decision.
As for the closure of the Cairns base and direct entry to long haul, two words KEEP DREAMING. You coudnt help them before and you cant help them now.
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I agree with you galleyhag, if Qantas allow some domestic crew to join QCCA to fly A380 while on LWOP, no one will care less.
The question is, why would anyone willingly do that?
It would make far more sense to remove the 4 aircraft deadline for right of return from A380, then transfer domestic crew across, as per the current agreement.
As far as the divisional flying, I think domestic would be the one getting less, and L/H would be getting closer to the 100% we always wanted.
The question is, why would anyone willingly do that?
It would make far more sense to remove the 4 aircraft deadline for right of return from A380, then transfer domestic crew across, as per the current agreement.
As far as the divisional flying, I think domestic would be the one getting less, and L/H would be getting closer to the 100% we always wanted.
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Call button
If a
regional flying is going to shorthaul, how come the international sectors from Perth have been removed from Shorthaul and will be done by Longhaul in the may/june bid period? (along with most of the other regional flying) 
If you dont believe me download the bid book from the CC website
If a
large portion
If you dont believe me download the bid book from the CC website
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call button
I have not posted on here for nearly a year, but i see silly speculation is still the name of the game.
Call Button, you are very confused unfortunately. The transfer of flying that might occur WILL BE SHORT HAUL TO LONG HAUL. That flying is the current 25% that short haul get from the Flexible Flying Pool and will essentially be the remaining international flying that Short Haul do.
The surplus will be managed by transferring that remaining international flying done by s/h back to L/H who originally always did it. This will then allow the direction of long service leave in S/H.
There also seems some very bizarre statements about relative cost between S/H and L/H. The QCCA arrangements in L/H mean that international flying is done more productively in L/H.
Finally, again to clear up some of the nonsense in here, the A380 flying will NEVER be allocated or given to S/H crew in any circumstances. This flying is firmly governed by the LH EBA, just as 737 flying is governed by the SH EBA.
The only access for current SH crew to A380, will be if they transfer into LH, and of course we ( LH crew) and the FAAA INTERNATIONAL DIVISION, would warmly welcome more crew into LH.
I hope my comments above clear up the massive misunderstandings that are occurring in here.
Pegasus, you need to keep the silly baseless speculation in here and misinformed statements under control ! :-)
Call Button, you are very confused unfortunately. The transfer of flying that might occur WILL BE SHORT HAUL TO LONG HAUL. That flying is the current 25% that short haul get from the Flexible Flying Pool and will essentially be the remaining international flying that Short Haul do.
The surplus will be managed by transferring that remaining international flying done by s/h back to L/H who originally always did it. This will then allow the direction of long service leave in S/H.
There also seems some very bizarre statements about relative cost between S/H and L/H. The QCCA arrangements in L/H mean that international flying is done more productively in L/H.
Finally, again to clear up some of the nonsense in here, the A380 flying will NEVER be allocated or given to S/H crew in any circumstances. This flying is firmly governed by the LH EBA, just as 737 flying is governed by the SH EBA.
The only access for current SH crew to A380, will be if they transfer into LH, and of course we ( LH crew) and the FAAA INTERNATIONAL DIVISION, would warmly welcome more crew into LH.
I hope my comments above clear up the massive misunderstandings that are occurring in here.
Pegasus, you need to keep the silly baseless speculation in here and misinformed statements under control ! :-)
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My Last Post
AT the end of my previous post i said-
"Pegasus, you need to keep the silly baseless speculation in here and misinformed statements under control ! :-) ".
By that i meant Peg should intervene more vigorously to clear up baseless nonsense and misunderstanding posted by others. I did not mean Peg was posting baseless speculation or misinformation.
Just thought i'd say this so i didn't confuse anyone
"Pegasus, you need to keep the silly baseless speculation in here and misinformed statements under control ! :-) ".
By that i meant Peg should intervene more vigorously to clear up baseless nonsense and misunderstanding posted by others. I did not mean Peg was posting baseless speculation or misinformation.
Just thought i'd say this so i didn't confuse anyone
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Wishin' and Hopin'
QCCA is a separate company to Qantas.It is essentially an employment company similar to Adecco.
Just because you work for Qantas doesnt necessarily guarantee right of passage.
Lets wait for a little more information from both the Company and the associations before anyone starts making decisions about their future
Just because you work for Qantas doesnt necessarily guarantee right of passage.
Lets wait for a little more information from both the Company and the associations before anyone starts making decisions about their future
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Well, we should get a further update midway through next week, so I guess we will know more then. However, I would like to say that SH has had hardly any regional flying for quite some time, nowhere near 25%, and we are already taking part in an accelerated leave program. LSL, Annual leave and LWOP have already been implemented to deal with an apparent surplus that has existed for some time.
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Having just spoken to the LH Faaa I can assure all SH crew that they are welcome to transfer to long haul as long as it doesn't increase the surplus in LH
Also, if you wanted to apply for A380 after qal and Qcca crew have filled the quotas you would also be welcome
The company has no intention of secondmemts to A380 for SH and it's clear to management that the SH Faaa doesn't seem to understand what the company is proposing
Either that or they are offering false and deliberatly misleading info to their membership
Also, if you wanted to apply for A380 after qal and Qcca crew have filled the quotas you would also be welcome
The company has no intention of secondmemts to A380 for SH and it's clear to management that the SH Faaa doesn't seem to understand what the company is proposing
Either that or they are offering false and deliberatly misleading info to their membership
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Pegasus... Since the SH FAAA does not understand what the company is proposing, maybe you could clear the matter up, and tell us all just what the company ARE proposing.
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Its not for me to repeat what I was told as a member by an official however without breaching his confidence I can comfortably say that as usual eden99 is on the money and that the Lh Faaa knew nothing of either the Sh proposal to try and grab A380 international flying or the contents of the Sh Faaa newsletter
I was assured that senior Qantas management today have assured the LH Faaa that no such agreement with the Sh Faaa is in place nor would be contemplated without the agreement of the LH Faaa
I was assured that senior Qantas management today have assured the LH Faaa that no such agreement with the Sh Faaa is in place nor would be contemplated without the agreement of the LH Faaa
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In the SH FAAA's update, they only stated that they would be pressing for Sh crew to have access to the A380 to avoid redundancies, at no time did they state that any agreement has been reached with the company.
What they did say however was that the company have posponed discussions because the flying split between the divisions may need to be reviewed.
I was under the impression that the split of flying between the divisions is contained in a legal document, which is binding on all parties. It now seems this may not be the case, as the company are reviewing it as we speak, with a view to shift flying between the divisions. This agreement, on regional flying was a huge part of the LH EBA vote. It should be a huge concern to everyone that the company may be able to vary it as they wish.
What they did say however was that the company have posponed discussions because the flying split between the divisions may need to be reviewed.
I was under the impression that the split of flying between the divisions is contained in a legal document, which is binding on all parties. It now seems this may not be the case, as the company are reviewing it as we speak, with a view to shift flying between the divisions. This agreement, on regional flying was a huge part of the LH EBA vote. It should be a huge concern to everyone that the company may be able to vary it as they wish.
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The division flying agreement can be terminated by any one of the three parties. The last long haul eba negotiations contemplated that this might occur at some stage and locked in 75% of A330 flying and 767 international flying
If the company decided to walk away from the Dfa for any reason, the only issue would be what happens to the 25% of short haul flying no longer covered by the EBa or the dfa
If the company decided to walk away from the Dfa for any reason, the only issue would be what happens to the 25% of short haul flying no longer covered by the EBa or the dfa
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I dont think closing LHR would be an option.
- Basic salary is much lower then QCCA
- All crew are trained on B747 and A380
- Shorter trips
- New training facilities at BA Cranebank and Hammersmith
can't see much change from the LHR end as this save's Qantas Millions
maybe BKK would be an option as the crew are all not directly employed by any Qantas group.
- Basic salary is much lower then QCCA
- All crew are trained on B747 and A380
- Shorter trips
- New training facilities at BA Cranebank and Hammersmith
can't see much change from the LHR end as this save's Qantas Millions
maybe BKK would be an option as the crew are all not directly employed by any Qantas group.