Air Nelson world's 2nd biggest Q300 operator??
Did remember an article about the Japan Coast Guard getting the very last off the production line and in my procrastination found this:
http://www.bombardier.com/files/en/s..._Status_EN.pdf
Apart from Air Nelson, 3 more for the Japan Coast Guard and 1 undisclosed as at 31 January 09.
http://www.bombardier.com/files/en/s..._Status_EN.pdf
Apart from Air Nelson, 3 more for the Japan Coast Guard and 1 undisclosed as at 31 January 09.
It's not like an air nz feeder to embrace 'the latest technology' last.
How long had the bandit and metro been flogged to death by eagle prior to the 'upgrade' to the 1900? How about the 748 to the atr at mt cook? The saab and metro at air nelson?
Many pacific island and third world countries had the newer gear years, if not decades prior to the type appearing in nz.
How long had the bandit and metro been flogged to death by eagle prior to the 'upgrade' to the 1900? How about the 748 to the atr at mt cook? The saab and metro at air nelson?
Many pacific island and third world countries had the newer gear years, if not decades prior to the type appearing in nz.
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latest technology? Are talking about the morris or the 300?
its not only NZ pushing old kit. Qantas operate some of the oldest (and tired) 737-300 in the world here in NZ dont they? and were still operating 747 classics until recently.
remoak, point taken. no ones really shouting about it on forums though (its not in capitals)
its not only NZ pushing old kit. Qantas operate some of the oldest (and tired) 737-300 in the world here in NZ dont they? and were still operating 747 classics until recently.
remoak, point taken. no ones really shouting about it on forums though (its not in capitals)
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Yeah, I know, but still... that's the other ironical bit. Being proud of acquiring more of what is essentially an obsolete aircraft. Bombardier are stopping production for a reason...
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I dont know if I would go as far as obsolete. Granted the design isnt new but the aircraft system have been upgraded as technology has developed, similar (not the same) to what Boeing have done with the 737. System such as NVS, FMS and updated EFIS (TAWS, TCAS2 & EGPWS) have been added over time (I beleive there is even a H.U.D option).
Its a proven design, it makes money, pax seem to like it and the most critiacal factor for me is that its not an Islander!
Its a proven design, it makes money, pax seem to like it and the most critiacal factor for me is that its not an Islander!
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Maybe, but I bet the Air Nelson ones have the minimum possible spec.
You don't end production of an aircraft that airlines want. In the case of the Dash, it is miles behind the Q400 and ATR in efficiency terms. It is a very old design now, basically a Dash 7 with two engines and no STOL capability.
I wouldn't say pax like it, more that they endure it. In the New Zealand case, they probably say they like it because it is better than the Metros that they remember! It isn't quiet, even with NVS, and it vibrates (particularly around row 4). The only airline-level turboprop aircraft that has successfully implemented NVS is the Dornier 328.
A company I once worked for operated the Dash alongside the F27 while they replaced the F27 with Q400s. I flew it briefly, between the F27 and moving on to the 146. For my money, the F27 was a much better aircraft, despite it's antique systems..
Yes, some airlines are making money with it, but some are making money with Shorts 360s too. Doesn't make it a good aircraft, just a cheap one, and that is what the Dash is now.
Have to agree with you that it s better than an Islander! But what isn't...!
You don't end production of an aircraft that airlines want. In the case of the Dash, it is miles behind the Q400 and ATR in efficiency terms. It is a very old design now, basically a Dash 7 with two engines and no STOL capability.
I wouldn't say pax like it, more that they endure it. In the New Zealand case, they probably say they like it because it is better than the Metros that they remember! It isn't quiet, even with NVS, and it vibrates (particularly around row 4). The only airline-level turboprop aircraft that has successfully implemented NVS is the Dornier 328.
A company I once worked for operated the Dash alongside the F27 while they replaced the F27 with Q400s. I flew it briefly, between the F27 and moving on to the 146. For my money, the F27 was a much better aircraft, despite it's antique systems..
Yes, some airlines are making money with it, but some are making money with Shorts 360s too. Doesn't make it a good aircraft, just a cheap one, and that is what the Dash is now.
Have to agree with you that it s better than an Islander! But what isn't...!
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Heard that Air NSN opted for the smaller engine due to concern over fuel burn. So performance suffered and the fuel burn is not to different to the ATR.
Also rumour that Bombardier offered the Q400 cockpit for the Q300. That would have been nice and maybe would of stopped the numerous overtorques by having a more bulletproof engine management system.
Down the back on the ATR n Q and not much in it but I would pick the ATR on lower noise. Q is much roomier but then it is supposed to have 56seats, but due to the FA limit is stuck at 50.
Air NSN config is unique to Air NS, i.e galley at the front. Which requires ballast on the early morning business flights or briefcase brigage.
My 10cents worth.
Cheers
Also rumour that Bombardier offered the Q400 cockpit for the Q300. That would have been nice and maybe would of stopped the numerous overtorques by having a more bulletproof engine management system.
Down the back on the ATR n Q and not much in it but I would pick the ATR on lower noise. Q is much roomier but then it is supposed to have 56seats, but due to the FA limit is stuck at 50.
Air NSN config is unique to Air NS, i.e galley at the front. Which requires ballast on the early morning business flights or briefcase brigage.
My 10cents worth.
Cheers
Last edited by kiwilad; 17th Apr 2009 at 20:50. Reason: just coz
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No, left flybe a few years ago now. Have been doing some contract flying in Europe to keep my hand in while starting up a business. Never flew the bandit, did fly the J32 but not in NZ.
Funnily enough, I have actually flown most of the J32s that have been in New Zealand, but with other European airlines. All of the Origin ones once flew for Loganair or Manx, at least one of the Air National ones used to be a Sabena aircraft, the other was once operated by European Airways from memory. On the Sabena one (operated by Sky Service out of Kortrijk), we had hot meals served on bone china, hot drinks in china cups, and a full bar. Them were the days!
Agree that a Trislander is worse than an Islander. They get into very small strips though!
Funnily enough, I have actually flown most of the J32s that have been in New Zealand, but with other European airlines. All of the Origin ones once flew for Loganair or Manx, at least one of the Air National ones used to be a Sabena aircraft, the other was once operated by European Airways from memory. On the Sabena one (operated by Sky Service out of Kortrijk), we had hot meals served on bone china, hot drinks in china cups, and a full bar. Them were the days!
Agree that a Trislander is worse than an Islander. They get into very small strips though!
Last edited by remoak; 28th Sep 2010 at 10:25.
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But then you have to try and get it back out of the strip. Thats where the fun part comes in.
Forget what you know about P of F, the only force that keeps an aircraft flying is money.
Kiwilad - Im sure there is a goldplated toilet seat option too, if your willing to pay for it.
Doesn't make it a good aircraft, just a cheap one
Kiwilad - Im sure there is a goldplated toilet seat option too, if your willing to pay for it.
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Stolen from another media.....
Never truer words uttered
Gordon Cooper: You boys know what makes this bird go up? FUNDING makes this bird go up.
Gus Grissom: He's right. No bucks, no Buck Rogers
Gus Grissom: He's right. No bucks, no Buck Rogers
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Forget what you know about P of F, the only force that keeps an aircraft flying is money.
it's just that it takes a lot less money to buy aging turboprops at the end of their production run...
One thing I have observed with aircraft, in fact it applies to other machinery as well, and that is, lower purchase price - higher running costs, the end result quite often is the total costs are about the same either way.
I hear a rumour that the shiny new Dash 8's (you cannot in all truthfulness call them quiet ala Q300's) already have issues with obsolete FMS's.
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Not that many airlines buy aircraft any more, most are leased with the engines on "power by the hour" schemes.
There are some pretty amazing deals to be had out there, you can lease an ATP or a J41 for peanuts now. 146s are cheap as chips as well.
Kiwis flying around on the new Dashes might think they are getting a luxury ride, but if they could see what most Euro (and American) commuters ride in, they would be green with envy! The CRJ being one of my favourites...
Not sure about the FMS thing (the Dash has a proper FMS? Really...?), but some of the earlier nav kit is no longer supported by Jeppesen (for the database) and is therefore essentially redundant.
There are some pretty amazing deals to be had out there, you can lease an ATP or a J41 for peanuts now. 146s are cheap as chips as well.
Kiwis flying around on the new Dashes might think they are getting a luxury ride, but if they could see what most Euro (and American) commuters ride in, they would be green with envy! The CRJ being one of my favourites...
Not sure about the FMS thing (the Dash has a proper FMS? Really...?), but some of the earlier nav kit is no longer supported by Jeppesen (for the database) and is therefore essentially redundant.
