Borghetti Gone..........
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Surprise surprise ,Oriana comes back for more!
Read what I wrote ,sport.
The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving.
Under the pre-Howard meddled Corporations Act Qantas would not have been able to "transmit business" to JetStar which wouldn't have existed anyway!
So your hypothesis regarding how much Qantas pilots would have had to sacrifice to prevent flying being siphoned off is just that ,hypothetical.
Who knows what would have occured if JetStar wasn't given a WorkChoices conceived ceasarian birth?
The big question will be, what will happen going into the future?
Your jibe regarding the barons though is spot on.
I think you have totally misconstrued what Qantas pilots are upset about.
JetStar is here, granted. However if we had a Qantas management that actually managed the whole JetStar birthing process rather than Management using JetStar to try and metaphorically industrially castrate Qantas then the whole birthing process may have been totally different.
What we actually had was a CEO who had a Government on his side and Legislation he hepled create which led him to believe he didn't need to negotiate, just dictate because he thought he had a lay down misere. Imagine what the relationship would be today if JetStar was formulated from within the ranks of Qantas pilots. There would have been gnashing of teeth for sure ,as there is with any difficult birth, but junior people in particular would have embraced the lower wages and lesser conditions in order to gain quicker promotion, exactly as what occured with Australian airlines in Cairns.
So in answer to your question yes there would have been a hit in pay and rostering ,just as there was with the setting up of Australian.
The only difference I suppose is AIPA would have negotiated the best deal possible under the circumstances, unlike the JPC.
As Dixon always said, "you only get what you are willing to negotiate".
Read what I wrote ,sport.
The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving.
Under the pre-Howard meddled Corporations Act Qantas would not have been able to "transmit business" to JetStar which wouldn't have existed anyway!
So your hypothesis regarding how much Qantas pilots would have had to sacrifice to prevent flying being siphoned off is just that ,hypothetical.
Who knows what would have occured if JetStar wasn't given a WorkChoices conceived ceasarian birth?
The big question will be, what will happen going into the future?
Your jibe regarding the barons though is spot on.
I think you have totally misconstrued what Qantas pilots are upset about.
JetStar is here, granted. However if we had a Qantas management that actually managed the whole JetStar birthing process rather than Management using JetStar to try and metaphorically industrially castrate Qantas then the whole birthing process may have been totally different.
What we actually had was a CEO who had a Government on his side and Legislation he hepled create which led him to believe he didn't need to negotiate, just dictate because he thought he had a lay down misere. Imagine what the relationship would be today if JetStar was formulated from within the ranks of Qantas pilots. There would have been gnashing of teeth for sure ,as there is with any difficult birth, but junior people in particular would have embraced the lower wages and lesser conditions in order to gain quicker promotion, exactly as what occured with Australian airlines in Cairns.
So in answer to your question yes there would have been a hit in pay and rostering ,just as there was with the setting up of Australian.
The only difference I suppose is AIPA would have negotiated the best deal possible under the circumstances, unlike the JPC.
As Dixon always said, "you only get what you are willing to negotiate".
BnG- I think that-
"The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving."
is right up there with the grassy knoll and the Chinese submarine off Portsea!
The only reason Jetstar originally was bought into existence was as a low cost competitor to Virgin. It wasn't created from scratch but was a rebadged Impulse which Dixon bought for that very reason. It was his ace up the sleeve. Dixon did not like pilots (by way of his background role in Australian Airlines during the dispute) and wanted to separate Jetstar pilots from Mainline pilots.
The MOU required Mainline pilots to go to reduced pay and conditions if they wanted a start with Jetstar. Dixon was not a stupid person and knew that promotional opportunities was a big motivator for most pilots. He was right when the movement of pilots between one business to the other was all one way but it was never going to be unrestricted access.
The subsequent success of Jetstar (by management standards), took everyone by surprise so it was expanded internationally and basically has snowballed from there. Its reason for being has changed dramatically with the whole"Pan Asian Strategy".
"The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving."
is right up there with the grassy knoll and the Chinese submarine off Portsea!
The only reason Jetstar originally was bought into existence was as a low cost competitor to Virgin. It wasn't created from scratch but was a rebadged Impulse which Dixon bought for that very reason. It was his ace up the sleeve. Dixon did not like pilots (by way of his background role in Australian Airlines during the dispute) and wanted to separate Jetstar pilots from Mainline pilots.
The MOU required Mainline pilots to go to reduced pay and conditions if they wanted a start with Jetstar. Dixon was not a stupid person and knew that promotional opportunities was a big motivator for most pilots. He was right when the movement of pilots between one business to the other was all one way but it was never going to be unrestricted access.
The subsequent success of Jetstar (by management standards), took everyone by surprise so it was expanded internationally and basically has snowballed from there. Its reason for being has changed dramatically with the whole"Pan Asian Strategy".
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Hmmm, I would venture to say that Jet* exists because of AIPA, "ticky dickie" was not going to negotiate with them, he was going to fix AIPA good and proper, one of his big complaint was that United, when under Capter 11 was able to re arrange its house into a new order, errr like "all bets are off boys" and her is your new pay scales chaps to which Q had its hands tied and couldn't compete with, so how do you get around that problem, and problems that will appear in the future.
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underscoring Keg's & ..'gasket's rationale.
Feb Mar stats:
QF Domestic down 2.26%
QF International down 15.39%
JetSAR up 34.23%*
the role of the JQ generic has, and continues to, erode the core rather than than the competition. JQ it seems is often directly competing more with QF than other operators.
There is a big difference between market shift & market share - it's a critical precipe that is often overlooked especially when the generic is blindly used principally as a means to instigate/facilitate broad operational reform.
AT
Feb Mar stats:
QF Domestic down 2.26%
QF International down 15.39%
JetSAR up 34.23%*
the role of the JQ generic has, and continues to, erode the core rather than than the competition. JQ it seems is often directly competing more with QF than other operators.
There is a big difference between market shift & market share - it's a critical precipe that is often overlooked especially when the generic is blindly used principally as a means to instigate/facilitate broad operational reform.
AT
How much of the 34.23% increase for Jetstar is the traffic on the CNS-NRT routes that were gifted to them in the reporting period. They didn't generate any of that traffic, it was already there courtesy of mainline.
Lies, Damn Lies & Statistics.
Lies, Damn Lies & Statistics.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Lookleft, simply bulldust in response to your reply.
"The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving."
is right up there with the grassy knoll and the Chinese submarine off Portsea
Dixon bought Impulse because he got it at the right price and he knew what was coming regarding WorkChoices.
He was after all Chairman of the Australian Business Council of Australia at the time. The very same organisation that stumped up money to write WorkChoices .
The Legal firm that wrote WorkChoices was Freehills, yes one of the 4 legal firms that Qantas use.
If it wasn't for changes to the Corporations Act regarding Transmission of Business then there is no way JetStar would be siphoning off as much of Mainline's flying as they presently are.
Jurno's even quipped at the time that Dixon and Jackson needed to contact the electoral commission in order to change their home address to Canberra because of the amount of time they were spending down there ,when all this was going on.
Coincidence? Hardly!
"The only reason JetStar exists is because of Government conniving."
is right up there with the grassy knoll and the Chinese submarine off Portsea
Dixon bought Impulse because he got it at the right price and he knew what was coming regarding WorkChoices.
He was after all Chairman of the Australian Business Council of Australia at the time. The very same organisation that stumped up money to write WorkChoices .
The Legal firm that wrote WorkChoices was Freehills, yes one of the 4 legal firms that Qantas use.
If it wasn't for changes to the Corporations Act regarding Transmission of Business then there is no way JetStar would be siphoning off as much of Mainline's flying as they presently are.
Jurno's even quipped at the time that Dixon and Jackson needed to contact the electoral commission in order to change their home address to Canberra because of the amount of time they were spending down there ,when all this was going on.
Coincidence? Hardly!
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As a scribe mentioned on Qroom.
The crap will be dispelled to how this mystical magical entity is 30% cheaper...
An audited set of accounts showing the transfer pricing...
Naturally if this so called miracle were real there would be one other "legacy airline" doing it...
The crap will be dispelled to how this mystical magical entity is 30% cheaper...
An audited set of accounts showing the transfer pricing...
Naturally if this so called miracle were real there would be one other "legacy airline" doing it...
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Enlightened
Thanks for all your input. I was previously under the impression that J* was created to circumvent the QANTAS sale Act so that Geoff and his crew could break up the company, syphon the assets (routes etc ) and then declare the main line unprofitable and put it to the sword, while selling J* and pocketing the cash
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Didn't AIPA file for a court case against Qantas/JetStar over the Qantas Sale Act?
What's happening with that?
It appears to us mere mortals on the line that since the Team Bazza junta we are back to masquerading as a Holtesque "rollover and play possum" union again are we?
Figures most of the Team Bazza executive were from that regime.
What's happening with that?
It appears to us mere mortals on the line that since the Team Bazza junta we are back to masquerading as a Holtesque "rollover and play possum" union again are we?
Figures most of the Team Bazza executive were from that regime.
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Wonder if Borghetti ever did a psych profile and jumped through the hoops or fell off the list to be replaced by a new smarter cadet?
No, he worked in the mail room....which means it qualifies him to run an airline while Eastern/Sunnies fly an aircraft with a red rat tail and never get a go..
No, he worked in the mail room....which means it qualifies him to run an airline while Eastern/Sunnies fly an aircraft with a red rat tail and never get a go..
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I've heard many successful stories out of Qantas's mailroom and reception in the past.
Some receptionist in Perth turned CSM jumping all hooplas. No wonder the then base manager was also shown the door shortly after she arrived sydney.
Also heard a mailroom person became CSM in sydney, it did take a while. Nasty little imp also.
Some receptionist in Perth turned CSM jumping all hooplas. No wonder the then base manager was also shown the door shortly after she arrived sydney.
Also heard a mailroom person became CSM in sydney, it did take a while. Nasty little imp also.
