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Qantas to cancel 787

Old 18th May 2009, 14:14
  #41 (permalink)  
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check out this fellas website for pikkies of the flight line updated every day or 2

Go to his Paine Field Blog on the right to get all the latest pikkies.

What is the link to the webcam?
GE90115BL2 is offline  
Old 18th May 2009, 23:27
  #42 (permalink)  
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Posts: 6,855 just to hand. The hydraulic problem was due to some dill not connecting the hydraulic cylinder ends to a control surface in the tail (rudder/trim/elevator... one of them) and some hydraulic tests were started, this punched a hole into a part of the plane in the tail area. So fortunately not as nasty to repair as first thought.

Flight is scheduled for Monday the 1st of June at 10am...........and no doubt subject to change.

So there you have it!

I am sure tehre will be much fanfare!

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Old 27th May 2009, 01:24
  #43 (permalink)  
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Fuel went in.........and I gather stayed there!

Folk on the line are tighter lipped than the proverbial fishes........

Could my June 1 actually come true?

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Old 29th May 2009, 01:26
  #44 (permalink)  
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Boeing 787 On Track To Fly In June - CEO

Boeing's delayed 787 Dreamliner is on track for its first test flight next month, Boeing CEO Jim McNerney said Wednesday.
"I think the airplane will fly in June. We will embark on a flight test program as we described it," McNerney said.
The company pushed back the 787 delivery schedule for a fourth time in December, making its plane almost two years late and risking cancellations from angry airlines. The plane has been plagued by repeated production delays.
McNerney said demand for the 787 is strong despite what he called "market churn." McNerney was referring to order cancellations this year, including 57 canceled 787 orders.
Boeing and rival Airbus are suffering as airlines and cargo operators defer plane deliveries amid weak demand in the economic recession.
After 60 orders and 60 cancellations, Boeing now has zero net orders for 2009.
McNerney said he expects the the first 787 deliveries in the first quarter of 2010. But he said there is always the chance that the schedule could be disrupted by a mechanical issue coming to light during the test flight.
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Old 20th Jun 2009, 13:59
  #45 (permalink)  
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Boeing Has Another Full Week Of 787 Tests

Friday, June 19, 2009
Boeing is planning another week of 787 tests as ZA001 counts down to first flight, expected June 28.
Counting down Boeing’s long task lists leads to June 28 being a likely target for the first flight of ZA001, the first flight test article in the 787 program.
Boeing will run through a series of six major ground tests from Friday through Sunday, June 21. They are broken into blocks of three. The first covers cover primary flight control system “axis” testing, which is to finish Saturday. The other focuses on functionality check out tests of the flight control management system and should wrap up by Sunday afternoon.
The six tests were originally set to be completed by Saturday evening, a clear indication of how volatile the schedule is as Boeing pushes to get ZA001 into the air by the end of June.
VP Pat Shanahan, the general manager of Boeing’s commercial airplane programs, is set to hold a flight readiness review in Everett, Wash., on Saturday.
With that review done and the last of the ground test blocks completed, the airplane will enter the last major phase of its testing — final gauntlet.
That 48-hour procedure will push ZA001 through a continuous series of final system checkouts using a software load developed to address minor issues that arose during the first two test phases — factory and intermediate gauntlet.
It is expected to get under way June 22 and most likely will be followed by a two-day analysis session.
When flight managers are satisfied with that analysis, ZA001 will be ready to roll under the power of its Rolls Royce Trent 1000 engines for the first time. It does so in low- and high-speed taxi tests. The first are cautious approaches to the fact that the nearly 400,000 lb. aircraft is moving under its own power.
The second will bring it to Vr — rotation speed — in which the nose wheel lifts off the runway slightly but the main landing gears stay put. Those tests, all conducted at Paine Field near the Everett factory, should only take one day.
Most likely Boeing will then take a full day for final preparation work before proceeding to the first flight. Following this tentative schedule, that will put first flight on Sunday, June 28. But, as with so much in the program, the schedule could slip.
The first flight is slated for 5.5 hours, but indications are it could go longer. The airplane will land at Boeing Field in Seattle, from which the full flight test program will be conducted.
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Old 24th Jun 2009, 22:53
  #46 (permalink)  
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Doh!!!!!..... Maybe Good Considering The Downturn

Understanding the 787 structural reinforcement

By Jon Ostrower on June 24, 2009 5:59 PM on FlightBlogger

Boeing yesterday announced it was postponing first flight of the 787 citing the need to reinforce structure where the wing box meets the center wing box at the side of body of the aircraft. FlightBlogger takes a closer look at exactly what the problem is and how Boeing came to yesterday's announcement.

Because of the need to go back into the detailed design phase for this fix, combined with the need to fabricate, install and test at component and at full scale levels, several sources with a direct familiarity to the situation estimate that the fix will take "months not weeks."

  • What is the problem?
  • (Historical Precedent.....)
  • (Timeline.....)
  • (The Fix.....)
The issue centers around the wing-to-body join that mates the wing box (Mitsubishi/Section 12) and the center wing box (Fuji/Section 45/11). The center wing box is the combination of two pieces, the center wing tank (Section 11) and main landing gear wheel well (Section 45). The area of concern centers on the 18 points where Sections 11 and 12 meet.

Digging deeper, the 18 points in question on each side of the airplane (36 total) are located on the top panel of the center wing box and run port to starboard inside the structure of the center tank through to the other wing. These 18 'stringers' inside the center wing box are matched by 17 stringers on the wing box, which serve to stiffen the wing skin. The wing box has 17 stringers, but a source indicates they are designated 2-18, hence the reference to the 18 points that need to be reinforced.

The composite stringers, which give the wings its longitudinal stiffness, are cured during production when cooked in the autoclave and joined as a single bonded piece with the wingskins.

On the inboard side of the wing box where the 17 stringers end and connect to the center wing box, each has what is known as a 'stringer cap' that widens at the end and actually makes the hard connection between Section 11 and Section 12 on the side of body. The stringer caps on ZY997 sustained damage, albeit repairable, when the wings were flexed on April 21.

Boeing confirms that the stringer cap separated or "disbonded" from the wing skin. Sources directly familiar with the situation say the shifting tension load from the stringer to fastener head also caused damage on the structure.
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Old 24th Jun 2009, 23:42
  #47 (permalink)  
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This is not going to be fixed anytime soon. Just have a look at Boeing shares on the Dow Jones as the problem becomes clear to investors.

Despite Qantas upbeat public statements they have a lot to consider.

Watch this space.......
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Old 25th Jun 2009, 00:51
  #48 (permalink)  
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They need to get some of the Boeing lads from the ol' days. Give 'em a good kick up the a**e and show 'em how to build an aeroplane!
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Old 25th Jun 2009, 00:57
  #49 (permalink)  

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They should've stuck with the Sonic Cruiser....

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Old 25th Jun 2009, 11:34
  #50 (permalink)  
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Well said Buster

Sonic Cruiser all the way
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Old 25th Jun 2009, 23:22
  #51 (permalink)  
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Well 15 cancelled is a good start. Why not erase all of dixons legacy by cancelling the whole 787 order and replace them with that old technology in the 777.
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 00:52
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6 . Dreamliner: great until the wings peeled off

Ben Sandilands writes:
The enormity of the problems with the Boeing 787 Dreamliner are only just starting to sink in.Overnight in America Boeing described as "minor" some issues on the "side" of the airliner, which had caused it to defer its imminent first flight.Boeing totally blind sided the reporters taking part in a conference call, although Wall Street wasn’t so easy to fool, slashing up to 9% off its stock priceThe truth is that the tiny, really minor, easily patched issues that Boeing revealed had emerged on the side of the "plastic fantastic" were in fact on the section of the wing where it joins the fuselage, which started to break apart at 18 small spots when put under stress in April.Wings are not supposed to fail until they reach 150% of maximum design load. The wings on the full sized static test 787 which is part of the sub fleet to be used in flight testing and certification procedures are confirmed by Boeing as having started to "delaminate". This means that the layers of reinforced carbon fibre glued together with resins and baked in a giant oven that replace aluminium in the 787 were breaking open. In flight such a rupture would precede the destruction of the jet by seconds at most. Yet in Paris last week Boeing declared its complete confidence that the flight test 787 would fly by 30 June leading to deliveries to customers from next March. Those were outrageous claims, as much as the supposedly nearly flight ready prototype rolled out in July 2007 that turned out to be a near empty shell held together in part with hardware store bolts and which was towed around in front of invited guests with one of its doors actually made out of plywood. Last night in the US, Boeing portrayed the decision to delay the first flight of the 787 as being one which would enable productive flight testing, rather than adhering to the schedule using internal reinforcing patches.It is difficult to imagine any test pilot taking off in a jet with internal patches holding together a wing in areas where the static model had started to break apart far, far below certification standards.Official guidance in Qantas is that a full review of the 787 order is underway. The only new design remotely similar to the 787 in proposed size and range is the slightly larger Airbus A350 family. It is also a high composite design, but significantly different in the manner in which it is constructed. A quick order by Qantas for A350s is not a certainty. The jet won’t be ready until 2013, and perhaps not Qantas-ready in terms of an optimal version of the jet for some years after that. Nor will there necessarily be a long queue of customers trying to buy it. If anything, there will be fewer airlines left flying after the GFC passes, and there is a view in some quarters in Qantas that it can sit on its cash, and wait until it sees if Boeing can come up with a totally revised 787 or if Airbus keeps to its promises in regard to the A350.
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 01:03
  #53 (permalink)  
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Just heard from a Qantas Mate, The Qantas group has cancelled the first 15 787's, and delayed the others for 4 years. Interesting times ahead for the plastic fantastic and QF/J*.......
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 01:30
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Qantas Airways Limited ABN 16 009 661 901
Further information and media releases can be found at the Qantas website:


SYDNEY, 26 June 2009: Qantas announced today it had reached mutual agreement with Boeing to
defer the delivery of 15 B787-8 aircraft by four years and cancel orders for 15 B787-9s scheduled for
delivery in 2014/2015.

Qantas Chief Executive Officer, Mr Alan Joyce, said the changes to the Group’s B787 orders were
appropriate in the current climate, and that discussions with Boeing, which commenced some months
ago, had not been influenced by the announcement this week of a design issue and further delay to
the aircraft’s first flight.

“Qantas announced its original B787 order in December 2005, and the operating environment for the
world’s airlines has clearly changed dramatically since then,” Mr Joyce said.

“The agreement we have reached with Boeing will provide greater certainty going forward in terms of
our fleet renewal and growth strategies as well as broader resource planning and matching capacity
with demand.

“It will also allow Qantas to manage capital investment more effectively while still delivering an aircraft
that offers sound prospects for our flying businesses and our customers.

“For both Qantas and Jetstar, the B787 will provide for international capacity growth and new routes,
including point-to-point destinations, and mean lower operating and maintenance costs, greater fuel
efficiency and improved environmental performance.

“The latest delay is disappointing, but we do not expect it to impact the Qantas Group given these
changes to our delivery program. We remain committed to the aircraft as the right choice – for
Jetstar’s future international expansion, Qantas’ growth and as a replacement for Qantas’ B767-300

After the order changes, the Qantas Group will jointly remain the biggest airline customer for B787
family aircraft.

The changes will see*:
Qantas Group firm orders reduce from 65 to 50 aircraft, comprising 35 B787-9s and 15 B787-8s;
the Group’s first 15 aircraft – B787-9s for Jetstar’s international operations – delivered from mid-
2013, around three years later than planned. Jetstar was to take delivery of 15 smaller B787-8s in
15 B787-8s follow over the 12 months from the fourth quarter of 2014 for Qantas’ Australian
domestic operations and to retire the remaining Qantas B767-300 fleet;
remaining deliveries, of 20 B787-9s for both Qantas and Jetstar international operations, take
place from the fourth quarter of 2015 through to 2017; and
Qantas retain the ability to purchase up to 50 additional aircraft.

Mr Joyce said the cancellation of 15 B787-9s would reduce the Group’s aircraft capital expenditure
by US$3 billion based on current list prices.

“Delaying delivery, and reducing overall B787 capacity, is prudent, while still enabling Qantas and
Jetstar to take advantage of growth opportunities and market demands, both domestically and
internationally,” he said.

Details of the contractual agreement with Boeing remain confidential, but the settlement is materially
in line with that previously recognised.

* delivery timeframes are based on current Boeing planning guidance and may be subject to change.

Issued by Qantas Corporate Communication (Q3936)
Media Enquiries: Simon Rushton T: +61 2 9691 3742
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 02:25
  #55 (permalink)  
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Looks like the B767's will be around for a while yet

The original plans were for Jetstar to temporarily fly the 15 B787-8's until they took delivery of their permanent aircraft (15 B787-9's). With this announcement, Jetstar will now only take delivery of their permanent aircraft with the B787-8's to go directly to QF Mainline domestic at a much later date. As there appear to be no more A332's on order for Mainline domestic operations, the only way to maintain services is to keep the B767's in service longer than originally planned.

With delivery of the B787 to Jetstar to begin mid-2013, then some of the JQ domestically configured A332's would be available to return to mainline domestic and thus allow some of the older B767's to be retired.
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 02:39
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GB said

With this announcement, Jetstar will now only take delivery of their permanent aircraft with the B787-8's to go directly to QF Mainline domestic
Qantas said

remaining deliveries, of 20 B787-9s for both Qantas and Jetstar international operations, take
place from the fourth quarter of 2015 through to 2017
A lot will go on between now and then.
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 03:14
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A380-800 Driver. I would hazard a guess that the pilots whose career progression has been adversely affected by both the A380 and B787 delays, aren't laughing.

LGR. I was referring to the early deliveries only. I agree that there will be a lot of divisive tactics employed by management as to the disposition of the later aircraft deliveries.
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 03:19
  #58 (permalink)  
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You heard it here first
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 04:39
  #59 (permalink)  
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Well done Woody. Now....where is WatchDog when you need him?
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Old 26th Jun 2009, 05:32
  #60 (permalink)  
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Now lets wait for the 777 announcement

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