CEO Refused the Jumpseat
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CEO Refused the Jumpseat
At lunch today a pal from SKYTRAX told me about a lad from OZ they are considering for the Aviation Personality of the Year Award. Apparently he is an airline CEO and was refused the flightdeck jumpseat on one of his own aircraft by one of his captains on a flight from Australia to Singapore. Who is this guy? What is the hell is going on down there?
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I find it hard to believe that the CEO of Qantas wasn't in a confirmed seat in first class so I'd be very surprised if it was us. Now that I think of it, I can't think of any airline CEOs on the SYD-SIN route (QF, SQ, BA, EK, Etihad, etc) that wouldn't be booked the same way.
I suspect an urban myth.
I suspect an urban myth.
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So do I.
But who said it was ex SYD?
Theres one CEO in MEL whos had some business in SIN lately.
After the pineapple hes just tried for size on his pilot group, I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest.
That is, as Keg says, if you can get past the certainty he would've had a confirmed seat anyway.
But who said it was ex SYD?
Theres one CEO in MEL whos had some business in SIN lately.
After the pineapple hes just tried for size on his pilot group, I wouldnt be surprised in the slightest.
That is, as Keg says, if you can get past the certainty he would've had a confirmed seat anyway.
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What has being a CEO and having a confirmed seat got to do with being refused the jump seat?
It doesn't say he was refused travel, just refused the jump.
It doesn't say he was refused travel, just refused the jump.
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Clarrie, in QF procedures if he's got a seat in the cabin then he can not have the jump unless it's for 'operational' reasons. I can't think of many operational reasons for the CEO to be on the jump. Perhaps that has something to do with it.
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I'm not too sure, but if it was on an International flight, do different coutries have different rules regarding use of the jumpseat? He may have got refused, just because of what the rules state. Quite possible if it happened it was done without malice, and the reason probably was explained to him.
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airtags, an employee of QF group is OK for jump as long as no seat is available in the cabin (a few exceptions to that but nothing that goes against the basic principle). Therefore if the CEO has a QF ID (and I presume he would?!?) then he can ride the jump if there are no seats available in the cabin. It doesn't need to be an airside ASIC per se. However, once on board, he (or she) can't just come up for the take off or landing. Once you're on the flight deck you're effectively staying on the flight deck. Once you've left the flight deck for a seat in the cabin (if available at the last moment after having previously allocated JS1 or JS2) you're staying out.
Some nations do have exceptions to the philosophy above and simply won't allow anyone but the crew on the flight deck in their airspace or on services to/from their nations.
Now that I've had some time to mull it over I can actually think of operational reasons to have the CEO on the flight deck but then the above rule comes into play. It's not a 'come and go as you please' type deal. It's a 'come up before flight but you're staying up' type situation.
Some nations do have exceptions to the philosophy above and simply won't allow anyone but the crew on the flight deck in their airspace or on services to/from their nations.
Now that I've had some time to mull it over I can actually think of operational reasons to have the CEO on the flight deck but then the above rule comes into play. It's not a 'come and go as you please' type deal. It's a 'come up before flight but you're staying up' type situation.
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operational reasons for refusal of jump seat may be check or training flight. perhaps other reasonable conditions also. captain's discretion at all times, not a ceo or anyone else, reasonable or not.... of course he may be getting a free cup of tea and a bickie at a later date.
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True story, the CEO of JQ, Bruce B was denied the jump seat on the ML-DWR-SING flight, he although already had a seat in back.
Great work by the crew I say.
He was probably trying to sell the reasons why he has relaocated so many crews.
Great work by the crew I say.
He was probably trying to sell the reasons why he has relaocated so many crews.
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Some nations do have exceptions to the philosophy above and simply won't allow anyone but the crew on the flight deck in their airspace or on services to/from their nations.
Actually Keg, my understanding is that is not the case.
The two most restrictive conditions are imposed by the UK and the USA and the Qantas security program is tailored to meet both strictures.
The UK requires that jumpseat riders be employees and not go in/out of the flight deck inflight, provided no seats available in the cabin. This clause caused the most hand wringing in Qantas as their security procedures were amended to meet this requirement but other Australian operators were not required to do so under the Australian Transport Security Act 2004.
The US Transport Security Administration requires that notification be provided 24 hrs prior to entry into their airspace of all persons having access to the flight deck inflight. Qantas amended their access rules to the US to crew only as this was the list provided automatically to the TSA from ARMS. If Qantas wanted to make the effort, they could advise the TSA that the Second Officer's wife (for example) would have access to the flight deck and would thus meet the TSA notice requirements. You couldn't do this to the UK because the S/O's wife is not an employee.
There used to be a clause in the Qantas security program that the two exemptions to the above policy were the CEO and Chief Pilot who had access at any time inflight. This has disappeared for some reason but I am sure both the UK and US authorities had no problem with it. Probably QF just erring on the side of caution. Again.
The above is my understanding of how things came to be, and, as I have not paid any attention to these issues in years, because it has become a massive yawn, I am happy to be corrected.
Actually Keg, my understanding is that is not the case.
The two most restrictive conditions are imposed by the UK and the USA and the Qantas security program is tailored to meet both strictures.
The UK requires that jumpseat riders be employees and not go in/out of the flight deck inflight, provided no seats available in the cabin. This clause caused the most hand wringing in Qantas as their security procedures were amended to meet this requirement but other Australian operators were not required to do so under the Australian Transport Security Act 2004.
The US Transport Security Administration requires that notification be provided 24 hrs prior to entry into their airspace of all persons having access to the flight deck inflight. Qantas amended their access rules to the US to crew only as this was the list provided automatically to the TSA from ARMS. If Qantas wanted to make the effort, they could advise the TSA that the Second Officer's wife (for example) would have access to the flight deck and would thus meet the TSA notice requirements. You couldn't do this to the UK because the S/O's wife is not an employee.
There used to be a clause in the Qantas security program that the two exemptions to the above policy were the CEO and Chief Pilot who had access at any time inflight. This has disappeared for some reason but I am sure both the UK and US authorities had no problem with it. Probably QF just erring on the side of caution. Again.
The above is my understanding of how things came to be, and, as I have not paid any attention to these issues in years, because it has become a massive yawn, I am happy to be corrected.
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Brutus, thanks for the background info. As you say, it looks like QF have gone for the 'easy option' to solve the problem of notification and our procedures read accordingly.
I suspect that QF and JQ procedures may be aligned in this area and so I can understand why they denied access to the CEO if he already had a seat down the back. 'Operational reasons' does provide a bit of latitude but it doesn't mean come and go as you please.
I suspect that QF and JQ procedures may be aligned in this area and so I can understand why they denied access to the CEO if he already had a seat down the back. 'Operational reasons' does provide a bit of latitude but it doesn't mean come and go as you please.
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Thanks for the info Muff and JJ. That CEO must be a real asshole. The Aviation Personality of the Year award is usually reserved for the manager that most exploits his staff for shareholder benefit. Good on the crew for giving him the bird.
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Perhaps the CEO saw who he would be sitting next to in a full cabin and decided it would be a little more civilized in the flight deck?
Then the captain decided that the CEO should experience first hand what his paying passengers have to go through?
Then the captain decided that the CEO should experience first hand what his paying passengers have to go through?