Qantas baggage handlers strike
Join Date: Feb 2006
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What have i gained from it?? And no it's not all about me but at some stage you would think that being nice and supporting would come back but its seems its just take and no giving back.
So long as you continue to lick the ring that is dropping those turds on your head, you will continue to be covered in faeces. Try standing upright and sticking up for your rights. Stop complaining when others stand up for theirs. A sook with brown stuff smeared over his face doesn't make for a good look.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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qfguy you just don't get it. I am cabin crew and have to deal with these same pax for hours on end only stuck in a metal tube with no escape. I was delayed yesterday for many hours and as frustrating as it was I stand behind the guys on the ground 100%. Also last year when the engineers took action again it was hard to face the pax but again I support the action that was taken 100%. We have to support each other even if it has nothing at all to do with us because one day we might need that support in return.
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One ground agent pays a whole $16 per hr & has a very high staff turn over rate. It's little wonder why they win these tenders when there there costs are so low.
Must also remember some of these folks employed by agents can be ex Ansett, or QF blokes who have had little choice than to sign up with these employers or not have a job. So I think to say safety is compromised is a little harsh, yes there are always exceptions, but you can find that everywhere. Just look at the fake engineers directly employed QF.
Must also remember some of these folks employed by agents can be ex Ansett, or QF blokes who have had little choice than to sign up with these employers or not have a job. So I think to say safety is compromised is a little harsh, yes there are always exceptions, but you can find that everywhere. Just look at the fake engineers directly employed QF.
Join Date: Apr 2001
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Why is anger being directed at bag throwers and engineers?
Do you think people just wake up in the morning and decide to take industrial action?
THERE IS A MANAGEMENT COMPONENT.
If managers are prepared to drive the brand into the ground in order to save a few cents here and there, let them receive your ire.
Do you think people just wake up in the morning and decide to take industrial action?
THERE IS A MANAGEMENT COMPONENT.
If managers are prepared to drive the brand into the ground in order to save a few cents here and there, let them receive your ire.
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Its not all about me - its about how selfish you guys are.
When the shoe is on the other foot think next time.
Join Date: Dec 2001
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QFGUY, here's an idea why you have to do it.. because it is your JOB.
You signed on for being the face of the company, and for managing our passengers, be it on a good day or a bad day.
If you take it personally, and don't like it, then leave. If you can't handle a few unhappy passengers then you should not be in the job.
I am amazed that you think it is ok for the company to hire the cheapest labour. Watch out, because you WILL be replaced by that cheaper labour if you don't protect your rights and your contract. At least then you won't have to deal with those pesky passengers
If tomorrow the company came and said... I'm sorry QF Guy, but we are giving you minimum notice, you are dismissed... and you are being replaced by someone who will do the job for half your pay... what would you feel like?
You signed on for being the face of the company, and for managing our passengers, be it on a good day or a bad day.
If you take it personally, and don't like it, then leave. If you can't handle a few unhappy passengers then you should not be in the job.
I am amazed that you think it is ok for the company to hire the cheapest labour. Watch out, because you WILL be replaced by that cheaper labour if you don't protect your rights and your contract. At least then you won't have to deal with those pesky passengers
If tomorrow the company came and said... I'm sorry QF Guy, but we are giving you minimum notice, you are dismissed... and you are being replaced by someone who will do the job for half your pay... what would you feel like?
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OK I get it, Qantas management want it would appear at least, to create a virtual airline and drive costs down to a minimum. So lets take this to a logical conclusion.
If baggage handling, front counter, engineering, pilots and any other function are to be out sourced than why can't management functions?
I'm not being silly.
Why is it that the CEO, the board and every other management function can't be out sourced as well?
Maybe the management of the airline could be tendered on the open market. Perhaps a franchise sort of model, who knows.
I mean it comes down to to a simple question doesn't it. At what point when everything is outsourced does Qantas stop being Qantas. What does Qantas then become, and what becomes of one of Australia's most respectable, trusted and recognisable brands?
If baggage handling, front counter, engineering, pilots and any other function are to be out sourced than why can't management functions?
I'm not being silly.
Why is it that the CEO, the board and every other management function can't be out sourced as well?
Maybe the management of the airline could be tendered on the open market. Perhaps a franchise sort of model, who knows.
I mean it comes down to to a simple question doesn't it. At what point when everything is outsourced does Qantas stop being Qantas. What does Qantas then become, and what becomes of one of Australia's most respectable, trusted and recognisable brands?
qfguy you just don't get it. I am cabin crew and have to deal with these same pax for hours on end only stuck in a metal tube with no escape. I was delayed yesterday for many hours and as frustrating as it was I stand behind the guys on the ground 100%. Also last year when the engineers took action again it was hard to face the pax but again I support the action that was taken 100%. We have to support each other even if it has nothing at all to do with us because one day we might need that support in return.
Ever seen a QF ground staff member in a VIC pass? I have...
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topend3....I'm sure there are thugs in any union but I have also seen thugs wearing suits who work in management who sprout drivel every day of the week....
Your line about holding the traveling public to ransom is a very old line and to be honest I have seen management hold employees to ransom as well as the public....
This entire debate centers around your own political beliefs.It all comes down to whether or not you believe in collective bargaining ...
Your line about holding the traveling public to ransom is a very old line and to be honest I have seen management hold employees to ransom as well as the public....
This entire debate centers around your own political beliefs.It all comes down to whether or not you believe in collective bargaining ...
Join Date: Oct 2006
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bag search
I was lucky enough to arrive on monday morning flight at 1000,
the arrivals hall looked like the stadium in the US when hurricane katrina hit.....an absolute nightmare. The havoc this caused was something I have never seen before and no one knew what the hell was going on !!!!
Nice look seeing all the boyz enjoying a latte as pax came out of the terminal
.......and yes I'm still waiting for my bag to be sent out. I rang baggage services .....their response was maybe towards the end of the week !
'wonder how i can make a roster adjustment with this as a reason !
the arrivals hall looked like the stadium in the US when hurricane katrina hit.....an absolute nightmare. The havoc this caused was something I have never seen before and no one knew what the hell was going on !!!!
Nice look seeing all the boyz enjoying a latte as pax came out of the terminal
.......and yes I'm still waiting for my bag to be sent out. I rang baggage services .....their response was maybe towards the end of the week !
'wonder how i can make a roster adjustment with this as a reason !
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In regard to ASIC's I heard that some people who are working for these companies have visitor passes. That is what the security concern is about. A visitor pass is different to a temporary ID card.
To me a visitor pass should be for anyone who is there to do a job for the company/airport that does not involve the operation of the aircraft. eg: electrician, plumber etc.
If it is being used by people emplolyed to do a job for an airline eg: baggage handling or check in, then I would imamgine that is outside the regulations.
To me a visitor pass should be for anyone who is there to do a job for the company/airport that does not involve the operation of the aircraft. eg: electrician, plumber etc.
If it is being used by people emplolyed to do a job for an airline eg: baggage handling or check in, then I would imamgine that is outside the regulations.
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If they are working at an airport (even as a casual) they should have an application in for an ASIC and meanwhile be working escorted with a visitor pass.
I know some smaller companies have tried to fudge that before (and kept their staff on visior passes for an excessive length of time), is this is what Aerocare are doing, or are they new staff waiting for ASICs, which (as we all know) can take a while?
I know some smaller companies have tried to fudge that before (and kept their staff on visior passes for an excessive length of time), is this is what Aerocare are doing, or are they new staff waiting for ASICs, which (as we all know) can take a while?
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To me a visitor pass should be for anyone who is there to do a job for the company/airport that does not involve the operation of the aircraft. eg: electrician, plumber etc.
If it is being used by people emplolyed to do a job for an airline eg: baggage handling or check in, then I would imamgine that is outside the regulations
If it is being used by people emplolyed to do a job for an airline eg: baggage handling or check in, then I would imamgine that is outside the regulations
You would imagine wrong.
Perhaps they shouldn't have named it a visitors pass. A visitors pass is issued to people who need access to the secure area (and also check-in staff etc), who don't have a valid asic. They may not have a valid asic for a number of reasons including being an actual visitor, but also if their current asic has expired, they've left it at home, they've lost it, it hasn't been issued yet etc. They will need to be supervised by a valid asic holder.
Aerocare, like QF and the myriad of other companies working at an airport may from time to time have staff with visitors pass. It's nothing unusual and is not considered a security issue.
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fallen....After reading most of your previous posts I assume you have something to do with airport security and probably in Perth....
[QUOTE]Aerocare, like QF and the myriad of other companies working at an airport may from time to time have staff with visitors pass. It's nothing unusual and is not considered a security issue.[/QUOTE
Simply because there is an option or availability in a number of circumstances for people to be issued with a visitors pass does not mean that there is not the possibility for this to be abused....and therefore the possibility of a security risk.
It might not be unusual for a visitor's pass to be issued but therein lies the problem....perhaps it is also unusual for a request for a visitors pass not to be issued a little too readily and the airlines and others know this .......
[QUOTE]Aerocare, like QF and the myriad of other companies working at an airport may from time to time have staff with visitors pass. It's nothing unusual and is not considered a security issue.[/QUOTE
Simply because there is an option or availability in a number of circumstances for people to be issued with a visitors pass does not mean that there is not the possibility for this to be abused....and therefore the possibility of a security risk.
It might not be unusual for a visitor's pass to be issued but therein lies the problem....perhaps it is also unusual for a request for a visitors pass not to be issued a little too readily and the airlines and others know this .......
When you live....
No security issue?
Going only by the posts of this thread I can see a security issue.....
Could it be they have failed an ASIC?
If check-in staff are required to have ASICs yet visitors passes are ok for airside with supervision then who is supervising the check-in staff with visitors passes?
UTR
PS Also, how is 'supervision' defined and what, if any, is the ratio of ASIC holders to Visitors? Worst case could you have 1 ground handling company employee with an ASIC 'supervising' the entire rest of the shift.
They may not have a valid asic for a number of reasons including being an actual visitor
If check-in staff are required to have ASICs yet visitors passes are ok for airside with supervision then who is supervising the check-in staff with visitors passes?
UTR
PS Also, how is 'supervision' defined and what, if any, is the ratio of ASIC holders to Visitors? Worst case could you have 1 ground handling company employee with an ASIC 'supervising' the entire rest of the shift.
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UTR, that was precisely my point. The intention of a visitor's pass is for a one day use, anyone requiring more that that (for example lost asic, waiting on asic, SHOULD be issued with a temporary ID, which look like an asic without a photo, only they are the stick-on variety). Visitors passes are either the yellow 'V' card or the WAC version with the time-exposed text that appears after one day- hence the intention they are only used for that amount of time, and a new one issued each day.
Not sure how the situation is now, but in the past I have seen airport staff (yes from AC) on the tarmac unescorted wearing yellow V cards. Of course I have challenged this and been told 'my supervisor is working another flight'. The AC response was that these staff were awaiting asics. As I said that was a few years ago so they may do things differently now, but if this kind of thing is still going on then yes, I would call it a concern as the cards are being used outside of the scope of what they were intended for.
Some companies may be using these cards to get around the mandatory ASIC requirement, if so then they are in breach of the regulations- as I mentioned a charter operator tried this on and immediately handed out the ASIC application forms to their casual staff as soon as one of their employees said they were going to make a call to CASA. Obviously then this use of VICs to get around the cost of asics is wrong.
Not sure how the situation is now, but in the past I have seen airport staff (yes from AC) on the tarmac unescorted wearing yellow V cards. Of course I have challenged this and been told 'my supervisor is working another flight'. The AC response was that these staff were awaiting asics. As I said that was a few years ago so they may do things differently now, but if this kind of thing is still going on then yes, I would call it a concern as the cards are being used outside of the scope of what they were intended for.
Some companies may be using these cards to get around the mandatory ASIC requirement, if so then they are in breach of the regulations- as I mentioned a charter operator tried this on and immediately handed out the ASIC application forms to their casual staff as soon as one of their employees said they were going to make a call to CASA. Obviously then this use of VICs to get around the cost of asics is wrong.
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Whilst walking through security in Perth as my bag was being screened a woman place officer(not in uniform) walked up flashed her badge then with a large box in hand walked round the side of security..
I asked her why she didnt have to be screened along with the box she was carrying..Her reply " because im a police officer and should be doing the right thing" i said "well im one of the pilots and also should be doing the right thing but im still getting screened" she shrugged her shoulders and pranced off..
At the end of the day security is still a joke and if someone wanted something untoward airside they could easily do it.. The security issue was just a smoke screen the baggage handlers used, at the end of the day they are worried about there jobs going the way of everthing else in airlines..I like the thought of out sourcing management what a great idea,watch how quick that would get shut down tho..
I asked her why she didnt have to be screened along with the box she was carrying..Her reply " because im a police officer and should be doing the right thing" i said "well im one of the pilots and also should be doing the right thing but im still getting screened" she shrugged her shoulders and pranced off..
At the end of the day security is still a joke and if someone wanted something untoward airside they could easily do it.. The security issue was just a smoke screen the baggage handlers used, at the end of the day they are worried about there jobs going the way of everthing else in airlines..I like the thought of out sourcing management what a great idea,watch how quick that would get shut down tho..
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One ground agent pays a whole $16 per hr & has a very high staff turn over rate
I think you will find staff turnover genearlly has little to do with pay. It is more to do with management of staff. Creating a happy work place by use of all those relatively cheap feel good programs. ie. Managers working on the ramp once a month, Friday sausage sizzles and beers, free coffee machine, regular signs of apprectation from the top, the list goes on.
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For background information
Who needs an ASIC?
Applicants should check with their supervisor or airport operator to see if they need to hold and display an ASIC. A person has an operational need to hold an ASIC if they have a requirement for frequent access to all or part of a secure area of an airport where persons are required to display an ASIC, and for the operation of the airport or an aircraft. A person involved in checking in passengers or baggage handling will need an ASIC regardless of where they work. Visitors who need to access the airside area or any landside security zone of the airport need to wear a visitor identification card (VIC) and they must be supervised by a person displaying a valid ASIC until they leave that area or zone.
(My bolding)
From Fact Sheet 13: Aviation Security Identification Cards (ASICs)
Applicants should check with their supervisor or airport operator to see if they need to hold and display an ASIC. A person has an operational need to hold an ASIC if they have a requirement for frequent access to all or part of a secure area of an airport where persons are required to display an ASIC, and for the operation of the airport or an aircraft. A person involved in checking in passengers or baggage handling will need an ASIC regardless of where they work. Visitors who need to access the airside area or any landside security zone of the airport need to wear a visitor identification card (VIC) and they must be supervised by a person displaying a valid ASIC until they leave that area or zone.
(My bolding)
From Fact Sheet 13: Aviation Security Identification Cards (ASICs)