Emirates Incident at Melbourne.
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Tick tock indeed
Two years ago CASA went into a panick when the FAA audited them. The FAA were within an inch of downgrading Australia's safety rating. And why? It was all over one Australian operator who had repeated 'incidents' and fly's very regularly to the USA.... I will let you work that out for yourselves.
So, we have the EK incident. Relevance? Well as has been mentioned, the ATSB is an investigator. It does not and cannot action punitive measures, only the limp wristed patsies at Fort Fumble can do that.
And Fort Fumble has done what about this matter? Hmmmmm exactly. Sat on it's fat arses as usual.
Interesting how the FAA and CASA react mightily different when an elevated risk is apparent ey? The EK incident was and still is of extreme concern. A 1.4 second difference between life and a burning death for hundreds. Raised were issues or potential contributing factors of fatigue, training, flight deck ergonomics, corporate organisational pressures and as has been raised an airline who lacked a just culture.
And Fort Fumbles does.........Nothing, as usual. Not a god damn thing.
This would have to be one of the worst regulatory bodies ever. Shame shame shame.
Tick tock
So, we have the EK incident. Relevance? Well as has been mentioned, the ATSB is an investigator. It does not and cannot action punitive measures, only the limp wristed patsies at Fort Fumble can do that.
And Fort Fumble has done what about this matter? Hmmmmm exactly. Sat on it's fat arses as usual.
Interesting how the FAA and CASA react mightily different when an elevated risk is apparent ey? The EK incident was and still is of extreme concern. A 1.4 second difference between life and a burning death for hundreds. Raised were issues or potential contributing factors of fatigue, training, flight deck ergonomics, corporate organisational pressures and as has been raised an airline who lacked a just culture.
And Fort Fumbles does.........Nothing, as usual. Not a god damn thing.
This would have to be one of the worst regulatory bodies ever. Shame shame shame.
Tick tock
The FAA were investigating Emirates over fatigue issues at one stage, but I am not sure what came of that.
Maybe it should be put to the ATSB how they came to the conclusion that fatigue was not an issue when the newspaper article suggests otherwise, which contains direct quotes from the pilot.
Did the ATSB ever actually interview the pilots one on one?
Maybe it should be put to the ATSB how they came to the conclusion that fatigue was not an issue when the newspaper article suggests otherwise, which contains direct quotes from the pilot.
Did the ATSB ever actually interview the pilots one on one?
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EK Fatigue
I have flown with Americans and Brits who were queried by their relevant Authorities (FAA / UK CAA) regarding their Logbook hours (cumulative) when they renewed their Licenses back home. Not sure of the outcome, but plenty of rumours about it this end as well. As Krusty & Gobbledock alluded to; CASA's incompetence and the lack of authority of the ATSB is the problem. Probably the same in the US/UK?? The "Big end of Town" seems to get away with it 
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CASA has no valid excuse for not knowing what the fatigue levels at Emirates are and whether or not they have a 'just' culture at EK as they have employed two ex Emirates trainers and checkers recently.
Amazing that the PF didn't select TOGA a LOT earlier as vid shows TOGA was achieved a little over a 100 meters to run. By then am sure they where squirming in their seats!
They where damn lucky!!!In fact we all where as if that event had have ended in a fiery mess off the end of the rwy then am sure lots of pressure would have been put on the industry in general.
Wmk2
They where damn lucky!!!In fact we all where as if that event had have ended in a fiery mess off the end of the rwy then am sure lots of pressure would have been put on the industry in general.
Wmk2
I once made the mistake of sitting a Sim check when fatigued. In hindsight of course I never should have done it, but it did come as somewhat of a revelation.
Looking at the video Wal', I must admit I had the same thoughts, but when taken in the context of what I now know, it becomes all too apparent. The holes in the cheese came so close to lining up that day.
As disturbing as it all was, what bothers me more, is that the same incompetant/corrupt government department which should have acted in the interests of public safety, and didn't, are still calling the shots!
Looking at the video Wal', I must admit I had the same thoughts, but when taken in the context of what I now know, it becomes all too apparent. The holes in the cheese came so close to lining up that day.
As disturbing as it all was, what bothers me more, is that the same incompetant/corrupt government department which should have acted in the interests of public safety, and didn't, are still calling the shots!
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Good call Wally, Fatigue is much more incidious than we used to beleive, equivilant or worse than the effects of booze.
Judgment in all areas goes out the window including knowing when you are halfway down the runway and the speed doesn't look right? TOGA time?
There were three seperate tailstrikes in the CCTV and the Black Boxes ended up on the floor of the tailcone.
Clubbing and Kite Surfing in during periods can be a problem???
Judgment in all areas goes out the window including knowing when you are halfway down the runway and the speed doesn't look right? TOGA time?
There were three seperate tailstrikes in the CCTV and the Black Boxes ended up on the floor of the tailcone.
Clubbing and Kite Surfing in during periods can be a problem???
'oldie' am sure fatigue played a big part in this almost deadly accident. But thinking back over other possible reasons as to why the crew sat there fat dumb & happy whilst the machine slowly accelerated towards the end of the rwy (& I might add actually rotated still with Flex set before TOGA was selected) is that pilots tend to be the best 'spectators' during the events of an accident or pending accident. I believe that we as pilots who undertake multiple T/off's all our lives & 99% are routine almost putting our feet to sleep but when something like this situation happens the old brain still doesn't get triggered to do something about it in a hurry purely 'cause we are not expecting it.
Mankind can make a 100 A340's etc all identical but you will never get 100 pilots the same, there in lies the real challenge! SOP's, training & all the other tools we throw at a pilot to make him/her safe are only as good as the individuals capabilities at the time.
Wmk2
Mankind can make a 100 A340's etc all identical but you will never get 100 pilots the same, there in lies the real challenge! SOP's, training & all the other tools we throw at a pilot to make him/her safe are only as good as the individuals capabilities at the time.
Wmk2
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Having only ever flown the 330 it is a bit hard to compare, but there are a few clues from this that should have warned the crew that something was amiss. The Flex temp of 74 degrees should have been one of them.
This aircraft was also passing taxiway Echo when the 100 knot call would have been made. To an Aussie airbus pilot, that would have been very much a red flag; maybe not so much for a foreign pilot.
I can only conclude that fatigue may have indeed been a major factor here.
This aircraft was also passing taxiway Echo when the 100 knot call would have been made. To an Aussie airbus pilot, that would have been very much a red flag; maybe not so much for a foreign pilot.
I can only conclude that fatigue may have indeed been a major factor here.
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Having only ever flown the 330 it is a bit hard to compare, but there are a few clues from this that should have warned the crew that something was amiss. The Flex temp of 74 degrees should have been one of them.
