V AUS How is it going??
Gentlemen and women. Use a big bullsmit filter around here. there is a lot of it going on.
As someone has already corrected, it is a 4 person crew (5 during training period).
There was some difficulty with the documentation of 3 persons.
Loads to date have been above expectations. Actual, is commercial in confidence, but I can assure you nowhere near what has been quoted. That 35 might have been referring to one of the proving flights.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good slagging tho.
Maui
As someone has already corrected, it is a 4 person crew (5 during training period).
There was some difficulty with the documentation of 3 persons.
Loads to date have been above expectations. Actual, is commercial in confidence, but I can assure you nowhere near what has been quoted. That 35 might have been referring to one of the proving flights.
Don't let the truth get in the way of a good slagging tho.
Maui
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A gaggle of obscurists really with nothing constructive, positive, even neutral view points. Just utter rubbish after rubbish. But arent australian's of that nature anyway? Cynical, Tall poppy syndromed, self absorbed and arrogant at best?No? Just have a trawl through the Dununda forums and one would get the idea.
Most of the slaggers should consider the fact there is another airline in the market from a pilot's point of view offering an opportunity (without the garbage that QF puts candidates through),to get on the ladder. The irony is that the same slaggers would without a shadow of a doubt jump at the opportunity despite what has been said about said Airline, as the the proof is already in ''the eating of the pudding.''Otherwise the advent of the pay for a job with no T&C's wouldn't have flourished in the first place mate.
Most of the slaggers should consider the fact there is another airline in the market from a pilot's point of view offering an opportunity (without the garbage that QF puts candidates through),to get on the ladder. The irony is that the same slaggers would without a shadow of a doubt jump at the opportunity despite what has been said about said Airline, as the the proof is already in ''the eating of the pudding.''Otherwise the advent of the pay for a job with no T&C's wouldn't have flourished in the first place mate.
Last edited by airbusa330; 11th Mar 2009 at 06:31.
Actual, is commercial in confidence,
nowhere near (35)what has been quoted
Ken
For your first part , yes, when the DOTARS figures are out it will no longer be commercial in confidence. However the advance booking status will remain so.
For your second part,
Maui
For your first part , yes, when the DOTARS figures are out it will no longer be commercial in confidence. However the advance booking status will remain so.
For your second part,
Maui
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35 passengers - I doubt it. It would be easier (and cheaper) to cancel a flight with a load that low. Even a 737/A320 wouldn't go out that light with conditions the way they are.
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You can't just cancel a service if one way you have a small load - say 35. What if you are booked to be full on the return leg - what do you do with all the punters there? Long haul flying, and particularly the states, is quite fickle and seasonal at times, and it is not uncommon to have really bad loads in one direction for weeks at a time, while coming back the other way the aircraft is 100% full.
Also, V have done well out of the QF380 dramas with lots of pax being sent their way I believe since other QF services are full. Then again, QF also did well picking up V pax when delivery of their aircraft was delayed.
Such is aviation.
Also, V have done well out of the QF380 dramas with lots of pax being sent their way I believe since other QF services are full. Then again, QF also did well picking up V pax when delivery of their aircraft was delayed.
Such is aviation.
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I have friends there and wish them well. Big time.
The 777-300ER is the finest aircraft yet built to carry 350-ish people on trans pacific sectors. It is so much more efficient than anything else the legacy carriers operate on similar and competing routes. Way more efficient. It is, like the entire B777 series an absolute game changer.
The legacy carriers are getting better equipment and will one day be competitive with VA. In the meantime there's Australian jobs being created and that can only be good news.
Given half a chance Sherm will one day get on board and see innovation and competition at first hand. I don't work for them...Sherm's tarnished and dusty wings will sadly never again see the sharp end of a 777...but like all thinking Australian pilots I look forward to seeing them flourish.
The 777-300ER is the finest aircraft yet built to carry 350-ish people on trans pacific sectors. It is so much more efficient than anything else the legacy carriers operate on similar and competing routes. Way more efficient. It is, like the entire B777 series an absolute game changer.
The legacy carriers are getting better equipment and will one day be competitive with VA. In the meantime there's Australian jobs being created and that can only be good news.
Given half a chance Sherm will one day get on board and see innovation and competition at first hand. I don't work for them...Sherm's tarnished and dusty wings will sadly never again see the sharp end of a 777...but like all thinking Australian pilots I look forward to seeing them flourish.
Nunc est bibendum
I hope the VAus crew contine to do well out of this and that the have long and enjoyable careers.
This quote by airbusa330 piqued my interest though:
I would have hoped that flogging across the Pacific in a 777 would be considered the top of the ladder rather than a means to 'get on' it. If the 777 is how someone gets on the ladder than what is there higher up? 
The shame of it though is that airbusa330 is right. VAus probably isn't the 'top of the ladder'- unless the individual has been o/s and made their fortune with CX or EK and then considers being home and flogging around on the 777 as the pinnacle.
WRT the QF 'garbage', I've got no doubt that QF make people jump through some fiery hoops that don't seem to make much sense. It's deplorable that QF make an individual stump up the cash to pay for the employment process- although not as deplorable as making someone pay for their own aircraft type rating! However that 'garbage' that successful QF applicants go through results in them being paid about double what the VAus crew are paid. I'd take the 'garbage' (and even the longer time spent as a S/O and a F/O) every day of the week. Perhaps that's why I consider flogging the 767 around the domestic network to probably be 'higher' on the ladder than a VAus gig on lesser pay and conditions.
(Bias alert: The author has been in QF in excess of 14 years and is very thankful for his chance to get on the ladder some 19 years ago).
This quote by airbusa330 piqued my interest though:
Most of the slaggers should consider the fact there is another airline in the market from a pilot's point of view offering an opportunity (without the garbage that QF puts candidates through),to get on the ladder.
The shame of it though is that airbusa330 is right. VAus probably isn't the 'top of the ladder'- unless the individual has been o/s and made their fortune with CX or EK and then considers being home and flogging around on the 777 as the pinnacle.WRT the QF 'garbage', I've got no doubt that QF make people jump through some fiery hoops that don't seem to make much sense. It's deplorable that QF make an individual stump up the cash to pay for the employment process- although not as deplorable as making someone pay for their own aircraft type rating! However that 'garbage' that successful QF applicants go through results in them being paid about double what the VAus crew are paid. I'd take the 'garbage' (and even the longer time spent as a S/O and a F/O) every day of the week. Perhaps that's why I consider flogging the 767 around the domestic network to probably be 'higher' on the ladder than a VAus gig on lesser pay and conditions.
(Bias alert: The author has been in QF in excess of 14 years and is very thankful for his chance to get on the ladder some 19 years ago).
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but like all thinking Australian pilots I look forward to seeing them flourish.
PS. Before the criticism starts, I was offered a position in the first offers 12 months ago to which I refused based on T&Cs.
It is a very significant number of seats on every flight & it is income for QF even if AA don't fill the seats.
Also, V have done well out of the QF380 dramas with lots of pax being sent their way I believe since other QF services are full. Then again, QF also did well picking up V pax when delivery of their aircraft was delayed.
Captain Sherm there is only relative handful of jobs being created V Aus, I know this is better than nothing but they aren't the saviour of Australian Aviation that Dick and Brett would want us to believe.
Stop knocking.
It's great to see some posters saying positive things about VA.
To quote author Dale Carnegie "Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do".
Whether you like the Virgin brand or not, at least it's the Aussie way to "have a go".
To quote author Dale Carnegie "Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do".
Whether you like the Virgin brand or not, at least it's the Aussie way to "have a go".
Prior to launch average load factors were 40-45% up until June/July which is in line/slightly above expectations. I imagine now it is 'built' numbers will be increasing. All the best I say.
Buzzy - cheaper on interline?? VB has an excellent staff travel. A LOT better than QF/ANZ. Free for group 1 (yearly limit applies), don't think interline can beat that. Sort out your facts.
B043 - you sure about that? 3 flights per week = 6 sectors/2650 = 441/sector.
Buzzy - cheaper on interline?? VB has an excellent staff travel. A LOT better than QF/ANZ. Free for group 1 (yearly limit applies), don't think interline can beat that. Sort out your facts.
B043 - you sure about that? 3 flights per week = 6 sectors/2650 = 441/sector.
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Keg,Simple fact is that jobs are being created for Pilots,and not just pilots at times of contraction. The T&C's of either company are a different topic altogether and nor did I mention/compare QF's remuneration other than the selection process. You subtly included that fact in order to somehow justify/warrant the apparent selection process at QF cause of the handsome rewards that shall follow.
Please lower your nose down a touch, as V is an opportunity of some sort for someone ok?
Had Alco got it their way with QF then you and your remark ''Perhaps that's why I consider flogging the 767 around the domestic network to probably be 'higher' on the ladder than a VAus gig on lesser pay and conditions.'' would have been of a different opinion today. At least you are thankful to have had the opportunity unlike some.
No bias from me as I do not work for either company but wish them all well.
Please lower your nose down a touch, as V is an opportunity of some sort for someone ok?
Had Alco got it their way with QF then you and your remark ''Perhaps that's why I consider flogging the 767 around the domestic network to probably be 'higher' on the ladder than a VAus gig on lesser pay and conditions.'' would have been of a different opinion today. At least you are thankful to have had the opportunity unlike some.
No bias from me as I do not work for either company but wish them all well.
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Keg,
“VAus probably isn't the 'top of the ladder'“
A totally subjective view point if ever there was one. What IS the top of the ladder Keg.
“. . . unless the individual has been o/s and made their fortune with CX or EK. . . “
And there are plenty of these guys out there, especially in SQ. They have just as much right to the labor market as the young whippersnapper trying to pay off a house.
“. . . results in them being paid about double what the VAus crew are paid.”
Do you think such a situation will last for ever?
“I'd take the 'garbage' . . . . “
Of course you would, your frame of reference is razor thin but more importantly you don’t need to work for Vaus. You would be ill advised to leave the sheltered workshop for a startup during these depressed times. But here’s the point Keg, there are folk out there who are in very different shoes to you.
Merlin,
“A thinking Australian Pilot with any credability would turn down any offer of employment based purely on the T&Cs on offer. Sure it would be nice to fly the 777 but on current conditions all your achieving is screwing up the Australian Aviation Industry even further.”
This is EXACTLY the same opinion a good friend of mine had right up until his contract in Asia was cancelled, owing to the downturn. Pragmatism has set in and he now holds a very different opinion (or maybe he just lacks credibility). Merlin, congratulations. You turned down Vaus. Were you unemployed at the time? I suspect you were not.
These are tough times that require an adjustment to ones opinion.
“VAus probably isn't the 'top of the ladder'“
A totally subjective view point if ever there was one. What IS the top of the ladder Keg.
“. . . unless the individual has been o/s and made their fortune with CX or EK. . . “
And there are plenty of these guys out there, especially in SQ. They have just as much right to the labor market as the young whippersnapper trying to pay off a house.
“. . . results in them being paid about double what the VAus crew are paid.”
Do you think such a situation will last for ever?
“I'd take the 'garbage' . . . . “
Of course you would, your frame of reference is razor thin but more importantly you don’t need to work for Vaus. You would be ill advised to leave the sheltered workshop for a startup during these depressed times. But here’s the point Keg, there are folk out there who are in very different shoes to you.
Merlin,
“A thinking Australian Pilot with any credability would turn down any offer of employment based purely on the T&Cs on offer. Sure it would be nice to fly the 777 but on current conditions all your achieving is screwing up the Australian Aviation Industry even further.”
This is EXACTLY the same opinion a good friend of mine had right up until his contract in Asia was cancelled, owing to the downturn. Pragmatism has set in and he now holds a very different opinion (or maybe he just lacks credibility). Merlin, congratulations. You turned down Vaus. Were you unemployed at the time? I suspect you were not.
These are tough times that require an adjustment to ones opinion.
Last edited by oicur12; 12th Mar 2009 at 06:28.
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VA Economy class staff travel to LAX is cheaper than QF, but QF Buss is MUCH cheaper than VA. Can not compare PE as QF does not offer it to staff as does VA. VA also offer yearly credits towards the cost of a staff ticket which QF do not.