A380 to Fat for LAX.
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A380 to Fat for LAX.
THE giant Qantas Airbus A380 is too big for Los Angeles international airport.
As Qantas plunges billions on the aircraft, LA air traffic controllers warned that, without changes, they may have no choice but to turn away the world's biggest passenger planes.
America's National Air Traffic Controllers Association believes Los Angeles airport would be unable to accommodate the A380 if not for the recession-related slump in air traffic.
"It is pretty inconvenient moving that Airbus around the airport," the association's LA tower president Mike Foote said yesterday.
"There are restrictions that apply to that aircraft that don't apply to others."
Its enormous wingspan was too broad for the existing runway and each time an A380 landed, all ground traffic on the tarmac had to be brought to a standstill, he said.
"They are 50ft (16m) wider than any other aircraft we have so it causes all sorts of problems," Mr Foote said.
The aircraft, which has been flying to LA from Melbourne and Sydney since October, carries between 450 and 853 passengers over two levels and has room for 50 per cent more cargo than most other planes.
Its wings measure about 80m from tip to tip, the tail is 24m tall and its maximum take-off weight is 544 tonnes.
That compares with a Boeing 747, the tail of which measures 20m and wingspan 64m.
Australia's national carrier has invested heavily in the A380, with plans to have seven in the air by the end of this year and a fleet of 20 in operation by 2013.
Now Qantas has three in the air - two flying to Los Angeles from Melbourne and Sydney and a third A380 covering the London route. They cost about $350 million each.
The A380 Qantas route had "worked well to date" but the airline was hustling to improve infrastructure at LA, a Qantas spokesman said.
"The city has always been fully aware of our requirements and of the economic benefits our A380 operations bring," said the spokesman.
"Airports need to be able to handle these larger aircraft and we are working with the airport to develop longer-term infrastructure improvement options."
Qantas is the only airline running A380s at LAX, Mr Foote said.
It runs six flights from Melbourne and Sydney a week, three from each city.
Mr Foote said, even if there were four or five A380 flights into the airport each day, the operation would crumble and flights across the airport would face chronic delays.
"Because of the recession, the traffic has gone down somewhat but at pre-recession traffic levels it would be almost impossible to move around the airport," he said.
The association is pressing for a new, bigger runway on the other side of the airport.
Average daily landings and departures at LA airport have dropped 1000 to 1500 since 2000 amid fuel price rises, terrorism fears and the economic downturn.
As Qantas plunges billions on the aircraft, LA air traffic controllers warned that, without changes, they may have no choice but to turn away the world's biggest passenger planes.
America's National Air Traffic Controllers Association believes Los Angeles airport would be unable to accommodate the A380 if not for the recession-related slump in air traffic.
"It is pretty inconvenient moving that Airbus around the airport," the association's LA tower president Mike Foote said yesterday.
"There are restrictions that apply to that aircraft that don't apply to others."
Its enormous wingspan was too broad for the existing runway and each time an A380 landed, all ground traffic on the tarmac had to be brought to a standstill, he said.
"They are 50ft (16m) wider than any other aircraft we have so it causes all sorts of problems," Mr Foote said.
The aircraft, which has been flying to LA from Melbourne and Sydney since October, carries between 450 and 853 passengers over two levels and has room for 50 per cent more cargo than most other planes.
Its wings measure about 80m from tip to tip, the tail is 24m tall and its maximum take-off weight is 544 tonnes.
That compares with a Boeing 747, the tail of which measures 20m and wingspan 64m.
Australia's national carrier has invested heavily in the A380, with plans to have seven in the air by the end of this year and a fleet of 20 in operation by 2013.
Now Qantas has three in the air - two flying to Los Angeles from Melbourne and Sydney and a third A380 covering the London route. They cost about $350 million each.
The A380 Qantas route had "worked well to date" but the airline was hustling to improve infrastructure at LA, a Qantas spokesman said.
"The city has always been fully aware of our requirements and of the economic benefits our A380 operations bring," said the spokesman.
"Airports need to be able to handle these larger aircraft and we are working with the airport to develop longer-term infrastructure improvement options."
Qantas is the only airline running A380s at LAX, Mr Foote said.
It runs six flights from Melbourne and Sydney a week, three from each city.
Mr Foote said, even if there were four or five A380 flights into the airport each day, the operation would crumble and flights across the airport would face chronic delays.
"Because of the recession, the traffic has gone down somewhat but at pre-recession traffic levels it would be almost impossible to move around the airport," he said.
The association is pressing for a new, bigger runway on the other side of the airport.
Average daily landings and departures at LA airport have dropped 1000 to 1500 since 2000 amid fuel price rises, terrorism fears and the economic downturn.
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Since that article was penned, the northern complex runways have become available for A380 operations, which significantly reduce the disruptions to ground ops. The article is also a little over the top by saying that it brings all ground traffic to a stop, when in fact it just restricts the use of the adjacent parralell runway or taxiway. A 'rolling blockade' follows the aircraft around the tarmac. It is an additional restriction to ground ops, but not that bad.
None of this should be a surprise to either QF or the Port Authority.
The latter wouldn't invest the money like many other airports had to. But QF knew it.
Considering how long the delivery was delayed, all this was pretty obviously going to happen.
It is not just LAX controllers that don't like this aircraft. The impact on OPS is not insignificant at SY either - esp with no brake cooling fans fitted to some of the aircraft - > long rollout + wake turn + pending departures.
Having said all that, I am sure this kind of thing happened when the 747 1st appeared on the scene.
This thing is flying in to LHR which has a restrictive taxiiway structure as well - I wonder how they handle it? Probably with their normal calm.
The latter wouldn't invest the money like many other airports had to. But QF knew it.
Considering how long the delivery was delayed, all this was pretty obviously going to happen.
It is not just LAX controllers that don't like this aircraft. The impact on OPS is not insignificant at SY either - esp with no brake cooling fans fitted to some of the aircraft - > long rollout + wake turn + pending departures.
Having said all that, I am sure this kind of thing happened when the 747 1st appeared on the scene.
This thing is flying in to LHR which has a restrictive taxiiway structure as well - I wonder how they handle it? Probably with their normal calm.
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LAX ATC association spokesperson said....
THEN Back Seat Driver basically reiterates this by saying..
You can relax BSD because at the at the end of the article the real reason is apparent.....
As usual this is all about politics...and spin..and games so people get what they want.
It is pretty inconvenient moving that Airbus around the airport,
There are restrictions that apply to that aircraft that don't apply to others.
all ground traffic on the tarmac had to be brought to a standstill, he said.
in fact it just restricts the use of the adjacent parralell runway or taxiway. A 'rolling blockade' follows the aircraft around the tarmac. It is an additional restriction to ground ops,
The association is pressing for a new, bigger runway on the other side of the airport.
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Must be fun with all that uncontrolled vehicle traffic buzzing every which way on those roads adjacent to the runways.
They were always a worry for me whilst taxiing around LAX!
Cheers...FD...
They were always a worry for me whilst taxiing around LAX!
Cheers...FD...
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Cheers LL, I can assure you I'm relaxed 
(Althought quoting only part of a sentence makes it a misquote).
I do wonder which 'other side of the airport' they wish to build a larger runway, when there is 2 runways on each side of the airport already.
To (mis)quote -LL
(Althought quoting only part of a sentence makes it a misquote).I do wonder which 'other side of the airport' they wish to build a larger runway, when there is 2 runways on each side of the airport already.
To (mis)quote -LL
this is all ..spin..and games
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Back Seat Driver...
That's what I meant when I said.... "basically" when quoting you...
But back to the ATC association in LAX...
The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different....
That's what I meant when I said.... "basically" when quoting you...
But back to the ATC association in LAX...
The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different....
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I bet if it was a Boeing A380 and not an Airbus A380, there wouldn't be any problems.
Remember what the yanks did to Concord when the Boeing SST got canned in the 70's..
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low lobe
As usual this is all about politics...and spin..and games so people get what they want.
But back to the ATC association in LAX...
The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different....
The line about a new runway could be an industrial ruse of angling for more money for dealing with new larger aircraft....everyone else tries to get more whenever something new arrives at work and I don't think they are any different....
try researching some facts
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Man Ground....
From your response I take it you're with ATC?
What facts are you talking about....that groups do not try and make the most of anything new?
You probably didn't notice that the operative word in my post is 'COULD'....but that would be bollocks then ....
What facts are you talking about....that groups do not try and make the most of anything new?
You probably didn't notice that the operative word in my post is 'COULD'....but that would be bollocks then ....
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Man Ground.
Don't bother responding to lowerlobe. He's a retired flight attendant who seems to be a world expert on anything and everything.
He probably test flew the A380, personally designed the fly by wire system and hand built all the galleys.
Don't bother responding to lowerlobe. He's a retired flight attendant who seems to be a world expert on anything and everything.
He probably test flew the A380, personally designed the fly by wire system and hand built all the galleys.
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Fun Bags
That's a bit harsh FB 
,It's good to see you back and I am surprised to see you on a thread that is not about Cabin Crew for once....
I suggest you have a weak black Tea with lemon and ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over...
It's good to see you're broadening your horizons....
,It's good to see you back and I am surprised to see you on a thread that is not about Cabin Crew for once....I suggest you have a weak black Tea with lemon and ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over...
It's good to see you're broadening your horizons....
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I suggest you have a weak black Tea with lemon and ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over...
that's a blast from the past and made me laugh ...... ahhh bring back the good ol' day's ............ but shouldn't you have included a lime and soda as well? 
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ring downstairs and see if anything from first class is left over
that's a blast from the past and made me laugh
What a riot and don't even talk about the caviar.What was the name of that capt who picked up a first class menu when he boarded the aircraft before he did anything else.pricless.
Hey funbags lobey might have done the first 2 but the galleys were mass produced not hand made.They were made in a factory out the back of Lakemba and were sold to the railways for the XPT too
I've got a mate who works in there and if Mrs Funbags wants a stainless steel kitchen or you want a nice work bench for the SS Funbags fishing boat let me know.mates rates honest.